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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 1004
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Danand wrote:
Jernigan haven't done that much besides some early games. He disappear way too much.


Which is why we would offer him something lower than what we offer a CJ Mosley type.

Danand wrote:
With how much we complained about the offense line, I find it weird how much people are ready to discard players from that unit.


Again, no one wants to lose Wagner. We are all basing the likelihood of him leaving on the type of offer we expect him to see in free agency.

Tell me this, how much should we offer Wagner in free agency (avg value/year)? You will probably complain when the FO lets him walk. So, at least put it in print, what offer you think we should make, so that you have valid reason to complain if/when he takes a similar offer somewhere else.

Personally, I'd go no higher than $6.5M per. I hope he takes a deal like that. But, with the backload of $$ out there, I see him getting an $8M per offer.


I am not at all an expert on contract numbers and what is fair and what is not. All I am saying is, that instead of fearing of "overpaying" a guy who we deem deserve a little less than what he can get on the open market, we should consider giving that contract to someone who earned it instead of using that cap number to sign 2 veterans to the same amount of money who haven't proven anything for our team yet.
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dcarey20


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 8021
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm willing to go to about that 6 mil range for Wagner. He's solid. He's not phenomenal by any means, and he is still a RT. But someone I definitely want back.
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Harding


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
On a side note, Williams and Wagner aren't really that young. Brandon is going to be 28 on February 21st and Rick is going to be 28 on October 21st. Both are definitely going to be chasing the money come March because at the end of the contracts they get this offseason they're more than likely going to be past their prime and not getting another big offer.

Starting to make me a bit worried about being able to keep Williams around. I think he's elite and worth paying market value for, but the front office tends to let guys making the most at their positions (besides Flacco) walk. Crying or Very sad


Which is interesting because the FO said they want the line to get stronger and bigger and yet they let a top 2 guard in the NFL go last off-season who is stronger and bigger than most. I would have paid Osemele. It is a heck of a lot of money for a guard yes but he is worth it. The Raiders sure do not regret paying him that much. I know it was harder last year due to the cap issues. Would have loved to have kept him around though. Much rather that money gone to him than either Williams or Wagner.
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 11767
Location: MD
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harding wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
On a side note, Williams and Wagner aren't really that young. Brandon is going to be 28 on February 21st and Rick is going to be 28 on October 21st. Both are definitely going to be chasing the money come March because at the end of the contracts they get this offseason they're more than likely going to be past their prime and not getting another big offer.

Starting to make me a bit worried about being able to keep Williams around. I think he's elite and worth paying market value for, but the front office tends to let guys making the most at their positions (besides Flacco) walk. Crying or Very sad


Which is interesting because the FO said they want the line to get stronger and bigger and yet they let a top 2 guard in the NFL go last off-season who is stronger and bigger than most. I would have paid Osemele. It is a heck of a lot of money for a guard yes but he is worth it. The Raiders sure do not regret paying him that much. I know it was harder last year due to the cap issues. Would have loved to have kept him around though. Much rather that money gone to him than either Williams or Wagner.


That $$ might get you Williams AND Wagner.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11247
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
That $$ might get you Williams AND Wagner.


Nah. Williams and Wagner are easily going to get more than $58.5 million (and $25.4 million guaranteed) combined. This doesn't help:

Quote:
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
For the #Jets and G Brian Winters, it's a 4-year extension worth nearly $8M per year, source said. Got a deal despite ending the year on IR


For a right guard. That didn't hit the open market and wasn't going to be the top guy available even if he did. Ricky gonna get PAID.
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dcarey20


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 8021
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
That $$ might get you Williams AND Wagner.


Nah. Williams and Wagner are easily going to get more than $58.5 million (and $25.4 million guaranteed) combined. This doesn't help:

Quote:
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
For the #Jets and G Brian Winters, it's a 4-year extension worth nearly $8M per year, source said. Got a deal despite ending the year on IR


For a right guard. That didn't hit the open market and wasn't going to be the top guy available even if he did. Ricky gonna get PAID.


Yeah that's not good. Can't believe he got that.
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Harding


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
That $$ might get you Williams AND Wagner.


Nah. Williams and Wagner are easily going to get more than $58.5 million (and $25.4 million guaranteed) combined. This doesn't help:

Quote:
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
For the #Jets and G Brian Winters, it's a 4-year extension worth nearly $8M per year, source said. Got a deal despite ending the year on IR


For a right guard. That didn't hit the open market and wasn't going to be the top guy available even if he did. Ricky gonna get PAID.


Which is exactly why we should have paid Osemele. Oh well, no point discussing i guess as it is in the past. Wagner is going to get close to 10 million.
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Rein


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 1262
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harding wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
That $$ might get you Williams AND Wagner.


Nah. Williams and Wagner are easily going to get more than $58.5 million (and $25.4 million guaranteed) combined. This doesn't help:

Quote:
Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
For the #Jets and G Brian Winters, it's a 4-year extension worth nearly $8M per year, source said. Got a deal despite ending the year on IR


For a right guard. That didn't hit the open market and wasn't going to be the top guy available even if he did. Ricky gonna get PAID.


Which is exactly why we should have paid Osemele. Oh well, no point discussing i guess as it is in the past. Wagner is going to get close to 10 million.


I agree. Wagner is a solid yet unspectacular player who will get a major contract in free agency because... well that's how the league works.

I don't believe the step from above average RT (Wagner) to below average/average RT (Lewis or rookie) is worth $10M. As much as I want the FO to build a dominating o-line, we should let Wagner go and spend the money a place where they really count.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11936
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have my expected price on Wagner to be $8M per. The league is valuing quality guards on the same level, if not more, than quality RTs. That's the new trend. RT is the most easily replaceable spot on the line.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11247
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
I still have my expected price on Wagner to be $8M per. The league is valuing quality guards on the same level, if not more, than quality RTs. That's the new trend. RT is the most easily replaceable spot on the line.


Yeah, I don't think the Winters contract really inflates what Wagner's going to eventually get. It just sets a floor. I would be stunned if it's anything less than $8 million per year, but probably not venturing higher than $9 million per year. Whatever comfortably makes him the second highest paid right tackle in the league behind Johnson.
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OleXmad


Joined: 09 Jan 2017
Posts: 505
Location: Baltimore, Maryland.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
I still have my expected price on Wagner to be $8M per. The league is valuing quality guards on the same level, if not more, than quality RTs. That's the new trend. RT is the most easily replaceable spot on the line.


Yeah, I don't think the Winters contract really inflates what Wagner's going to eventually get. It just sets a floor. I would be stunned if it's anything less than $8 million per year, but probably not venturing higher than $9 million per year. Whatever comfortably makes him the second highest paid right tackle in the league behind Johnson.


Winter's contract has zero reflection on what Wagner will get, RT's aren't easy to replace they're just the least valued position on the o-line. Ricky Wagner is a top 5 player at his position (There are a ton of bad RTs in this league) We'd be wise to try and get both him+Williams signed long term, Especially with Yanda turning 33.
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 301
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
I still have my expected price on Wagner to be $8M per. The league is valuing quality guards on the same level, if not more, than quality RTs. That's the new trend. RT is the most easily replaceable spot on the line.


Yeah, I don't think the Winters contract really inflates what Wagner's going to eventually get. It just sets a floor. I would be stunned if it's anything less than $8 million per year, but probably not venturing higher than $9 million per year. Whatever comfortably makes him the second highest paid right tackle in the league behind Johnson.


Winter's contract has zero reflection on what Wagner will get, RT's aren't easy to replace they're just the least valued position on the o-line. Ricky Wagner is a top 5 player at his position (There are a ton of bad RTs in this league) We'd be wise to try and get both him+Williams signed long term, Especially with Yanda turning 33.


Yes agreed while I wouldn't go crazy and pay them ridiculous money by that I mean if they decide to test the market some team with a lot of money will come and make them the highest paid player in their positions by a far margin I wouldn't match that it's not worth it for either though Williams I would consider because he is the best nose tackle and in a 3-4 that's crucial but we would have to reinvest and plug other holes with good talent or young promising talent in free agency because we can't just create holes and not plug others
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OleXmad


Joined: 09 Jan 2017
Posts: 505
Location: Baltimore, Maryland.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does anyone have any idea what the ravens might do with the backup QB spot since Ryan Mallet is a FA?
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11936
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
So does anyone have any idea what the ravens might do with the backup QB spot since Ryan Mallet is a FA?


We'll probably try a late round flier like Troy Smith, Tyrod, or Wenning. I was going to say that Josh Johnson looked good enough to be a backup when he played in the preseason, but it seems like the Giants scooped him up.
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 301
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
So does anyone have any idea what the ravens might do with the backup QB spot since Ryan Mallet is a FA?


i say draft one with our fourth or fifth pick. now obviously ideally you want a back up that can come in and play a game or 2 and win if your QB goes down but if he is out for the season it really doesnt matter who the back up is. i rather get a young guy we can develop and is cheap and groom him for a few years because i think unless flacco plays better and more often we might try to move him when his contract allows and having someone who has been with the team for a few years might help the transition even if its short term
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