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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 10004
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Team Needs Reply with quote

If this has been posted before I apologize, but I am trying to get a fan base opinion of the team needs.

Just the top 3 or 4.

Thanks.
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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Location: The worst of all possible realities
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Pass rusher (either edge or 3/5-tech. Flowers has showed he can man one spot, and Long/Sheard could be valuable rotational guys for another year or two but they need to set themselves up for life after them).

2. WLB (McClellin has been decent the last few weeks but they can definitely upgrade from him)

3. DB (depends on where things fall with Harmon and Ryan but they would need to add both a corner and a safety if they lose both).

4. RB (Blount will be coming off a career year but he just turned 30 so they need to have someone on board who could fill a similar role should he hit the wall)
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32060
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LB - Hightower is unsigned and everyone else is mediocre-to-bad. Need another quality player

DT - Branch is unsigned and nothing more than solid. The rest of the DT's range from inconsistent to marginal as starters.

DE - Sheard and Long are unsigned, Ninkovich is old and at the end of the road, not much else at the position beyond Flowers

RB - Blount is getting to the age where RB's drop off quickly and he's not very good anyway.

Safety - If Harmon leaves, they need a good #3 safety.

I don't think CB is much of a need, even if Ryan leaves, but given the depth of the class and the team's penchant for taking CB's, I would assume they will draft someone
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CP3MVP


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 1808
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LB
DE
CB
RB
DT
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TheRealMcCoy wrote:
CP3MVP wrote:
He went from top ten to not mentioned at all

Laughing
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DE
LB
TE
OT
C
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either they didn't game plan for any TE play or we darn sure need to draft a TE. That was apparent last night. Gronk while great is to often hurt and that does hurt how this offense operates
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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Location: Boston MA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the roster we have with contracts set to expire.... Every position on defense.

LB
DE
DT
S
CB

probably in that order. It changes depending on what guys we bring back like Logan Ryan and Donta Hightower, but they are all needs.

On offense, RB and TE (which is weird to say for a team with Gronk and a career year from Blount, a change of pace in Lewis, and a pass catcher like White but there it is)

I would think we draft in the later rounds a potential Julian clone and see if he can't develop
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doubt they'll pull the trigger, but a C or RG should be on the list. Maybe Jackson can come back and compete for RG next year, or maybe Karras develops, but another quality talent in one of those two spots would really help.

I don't think they move on from Andrews and/or Mason but they both struggle in pass protection to the point where an upgrade has to be considered. Mason is good in the run game but lining him up to a mediocre quality center really exacerbates his issues in pass pro. If Cannon wasn't so good this year, that right side would be getting Brady killed week in and week out.
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Doubt they'll pull the trigger, but a C or RG should be on the list. Maybe Jackson can come back and compete for RG next year, or maybe Karras develops, but another quality talent in one of those two spots would really help.

I don't think they move on from Andrews and/or Mason but they both struggle in pass protection to the point where an upgrade has to be considered. Mason is good in the run game but lining him up to a mediocre quality center really exacerbates his issues in pass pro. If Cannon wasn't so good this year, that right side would be getting Brady killed week in and week out.


Do you think Mason would be good in that 6th OL role in the run game that Flemming has been pegged as? Assuming he can be upgraded on at RG.

As for getting an upgrade, I do think interior OL should be 1 or 2 picks in the draft but I dont think it is very high on the list of needs.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Doubt they'll pull the trigger, but a C or RG should be on the list. Maybe Jackson can come back and compete for RG next year, or maybe Karras develops, but another quality talent in one of those two spots would really help.

I don't think they move on from Andrews and/or Mason but they both struggle in pass protection to the point where an upgrade has to be considered. Mason is good in the run game but lining him up to a mediocre quality center really exacerbates his issues in pass pro. If Cannon wasn't so good this year, that right side would be getting Brady killed week in and week out.


Do you think Mason would be good in that 6th OL role in the run game that Flemming has been pegged as? Assuming he can be upgraded on at RG.

As for getting an upgrade, I do think interior OL should be 1 or 2 picks in the draft but I dont think it is very high on the list of needs.


I don't think Mason would be a good 6th OL because he's really only useful at RG. He's too weak in pass protection to play LG, too short to play OT and I don't trust him at C (bad at pass pro/no experience). I think that if he's not starting at RG, I would move on from him entirely.

He's good enough in the run game where he might have value to another team but a guy with his limitations in the pass game needs to be dominant in the run game to be valuable to a pass-first team like the Pats and Mason is more "good" than "great" in the run game. He might go from good to great in the run game if you pair him with a better C but I'd prefer someone who was better in pass protection.
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be slightly off-topic, but I do think that the team should start trending to a more run first offense, slowly. With Brady winding his career down, despite not showing signs of decline, it would be smart to start leaning more and more on the run. It would help to extend Brady's career and would also allow for a smooth transition once he goes. To not have to rely or lean heavily onto a new QB stepping into the shoes of the greatest to ever do it would take a TON of pressure offer of whoever that may be. Instead of making a big change once Brady leaves, making the transition to a more rush based offense over a few seasons would be wise.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
It might be slightly off-topic, but I do think that the team should start trending to a more run first offense, slowly. With Brady winding his career down, despite not showing signs of decline, it would be smart to start leaning more and more on the run. It would help to extend Brady's career and would also allow for a smooth transition once he goes. To not have to rely or lean heavily onto a new QB stepping into the shoes of the greatest to ever do it would take a TON of pressure offer of whoever that may be. Instead of making a big change once Brady leaves, making the transition to a more rush based offense over a few seasons would be wise.


They were a little more balanced this year than in years past, but as long as Brady is there and playing at a good level, taking the ball out of his hands seems detrimental. Unless they invest in a Cowboys-esque RB/OL situation, a running play is going to be less valuable than a pass play.

If we assume Brady has 2-3 years of solid to elite play left, the best thing they can do to try to get another Super Bowl ring is to bolster the D. Upgrading from Blount would help but it would have to be a huge upgrade to warrant going more to the run. If you wanted to build a run first or 50/50 type offense, you'd have to use high picks or free agency dollars to bring in elite OL or a high end RB. I just don't see that as a good use of resources.

That said, if McDaniels leaves and Daboll assumes the OC position, all bets are off.
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
It might be slightly off-topic, but I do think that the team should start trending to a more run first offense, slowly. With Brady winding his career down, despite not showing signs of decline, it would be smart to start leaning more and more on the run. It would help to extend Brady's career and would also allow for a smooth transition once he goes. To not have to rely or lean heavily onto a new QB stepping into the shoes of the greatest to ever do it would take a TON of pressure offer of whoever that may be. Instead of making a big change once Brady leaves, making the transition to a more rush based offense over a few seasons would be wise.


They were a little more balanced this year than in years past, but as long as Brady is there and playing at a good level, taking the ball out of his hands seems detrimental. Unless they invest in a Cowboys-esque RB/OL situation, a running play is going to be less valuable than a pass play.

If we assume Brady has 2-3 years of solid to elite play left, the best thing they can do to try to get another Super Bowl ring is to bolster the D. Upgrading from Blount would help but it would have to be a huge upgrade to warrant going more to the run. If you wanted to build a run first or 50/50 type offense, you'd have to use high picks or free agency dollars to bring in elite OL or a high end RB. I just don't see that as a good use of resources.

That said, if McDaniels leaves and Daboll assumes the OC position, all bets are off.


Of course you dont want to take the ball out of Brady's hands, but having a running game in place that could be potentially the focal point of the offense without Brady would only make the effectiveness of the pass game greater.

I also believe this route would only extend the window of a Brady SB victory. Obviously defense is important and I do think that it would be a great way to help a Brady led team to another SB victory, but I also think a more reliable running game would keep Brady's window open longer. I am much more of a believer in more chances rather than limited ones with a better chance, especially in the NFL.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
It might be slightly off-topic, but I do think that the team should start trending to a more run first offense, slowly. With Brady winding his career down, despite not showing signs of decline, it would be smart to start leaning more and more on the run. It would help to extend Brady's career and would also allow for a smooth transition once he goes. To not have to rely or lean heavily onto a new QB stepping into the shoes of the greatest to ever do it would take a TON of pressure offer of whoever that may be. Instead of making a big change once Brady leaves, making the transition to a more rush based offense over a few seasons would be wise.


They were a little more balanced this year than in years past, but as long as Brady is there and playing at a good level, taking the ball out of his hands seems detrimental. Unless they invest in a Cowboys-esque RB/OL situation, a running play is going to be less valuable than a pass play.

If we assume Brady has 2-3 years of solid to elite play left, the best thing they can do to try to get another Super Bowl ring is to bolster the D. Upgrading from Blount would help but it would have to be a huge upgrade to warrant going more to the run. If you wanted to build a run first or 50/50 type offense, you'd have to use high picks or free agency dollars to bring in elite OL or a high end RB. I just don't see that as a good use of resources.

That said, if McDaniels leaves and Daboll assumes the OC position, all bets are off.


Of course you dont want to take the ball out of Brady's hands, but having a running game in place that could be potentially the focal point of the offense without Brady would only make the effectiveness of the pass game greater.

I also believe this route would only extend the window of a Brady SB victory. Obviously defense is important and I do think that it would be a great way to help a Brady led team to another SB victory, but I also think a more reliable running game would keep Brady's window open longer. I am much more of a believer in more chances rather than limited ones with a better chance, especially in the NFL.


I still don't understand how the offense improves by making it more run oriented. Brady throwing is far more deadly than any non-elite running game. Building an elite running game would take a few years of significant resources.

The Pats have had one of the top 2-3 (if not best) passing attacks in the league consistently under Brady. I understand that improving the quality of the running game could improve the overall offense but trading pass attempts for run plays in any meaningful way seems crazy to me unless the Pats have a top 3 RB. If they could find an elite C, elite G and elite RB, then yeah, maybe it makes sense. But there's no quick and realistic path to getting an elite running game going.

What the Pats need to do, is copy Atlanta. Find RB's who can contribute as true under-center (run formation) RB's and also pass catchers. Atlanta had a top 5 running game but ran less frequently than the Pats. That's the model that I'd go towards. Instead of becoming more run-heavy, I'd like to see the team become more able to truly beat a team with either run or pass instead of only being able to run effectively on 30-40% of opponents.
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GoldenboyGB


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DB
LB
DE
#3 TE someone to grow and that can play in a pinch if Gronk or Bennett go down next year
RB

Resign the main guys and continue to grow the first year guys that have had a stellar year.
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