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Browns Fire DC Horton, Hire Gregg Williams
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 39006
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just all the talks about DEs in a 4-3, could you imagine what the DL could look like if Armonty Bryant wasnt a freaking moron. That unit would be crazy deep
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ohiogenius


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 5471
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless Tyrone Holmes shows up 15-20 lbs heavier hes not a 4-3 RE.

Another guy like Nate Orchard. Probably better suited as a rotational OLB

Cam Johnson is a capable back up who should be resigned at DE #4.

Garrett (Soloman/Barrett if we take Allen)
Ogbah
Nassib
Johnson
Orchard (at least through training camp to see what he has)

Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.
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BwickBrownie wrote:
cortes02 wrote:
Would JPP fit in the 3-4??

Peace!!!

If you're referring to fingers on his glove, the answer is yes.
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 6761
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohiogenius wrote:
Unless Tyrone Holmes shows up 15-20 lbs heavier hes not a 4-3 RE.

Another guy like Nate Orchard. Probably better suited as a rotational OLB

Cam Johnson is a capable back up who should be resigned at DE #4.

Garrett (Soloman/Barrett if we take Allen)
Ogbah
Nassib
Johnson
Orchard (at least through training camp to see what he has)

Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Both Orchard and Holmes can easily play in the 260 range without losing speed. I wouldn't worry about there size so much as their ability. Cam Johnson has been around much longer than both and accomplished far less. The guy is a journeyman who should never be counted on for anything. I wouldn't be looking to cut Orchard or Holmes but I wouldn't mind drafting addition pass rushing help in the mid rounds after Garrett to maybe push them off the roster.

Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19305
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.


Realistically, we would be lucky to receive a conditional 2019 6th or 7th round pick for Orchard.
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simian07


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 529
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
Couple of things I wanted to put our there......
First I'd like to officially change my position...I was probably one of the biggest Horton fans in here....after looking at his track record, I have come to the conclusion that Horton is a lot more Bravado and Talk then actual performance....go and look at the D's he's had...almost every season he takes over a D, it gets worse....and when he leaves, there is an immediate improvement.....SHOCKING how many times this has happened....Enter Gregg Williams....I like the fact that Hue was not scared to make the move, and put a time limit on it due to the Sr. Bowl.....this is how good organizations work...

Living in the DC area, and hearing Skins fans talk about Gregg Williams is like hearing vikings talk about Ragnar Lothbrook LOL...but a couple things are true about him....he's presided over Multiple top 12 defenses in his career, in different places (Tenn, Wash, N.O., Stl)....

I am also a fan of the 3-4 Defense and always will be.....but moving a 4-3 D might be the quickest way to get this D on the right track...all of a sudden guys who may have only been special teams players, or sub package contributors are now fits for a D (Holmes, Orchard, Cooper, Schobert, Alexander, Mederer)....so I am not opposed to the move....

I just have one more hope and prayer, is that Gregg brings one more big name coach with him....and I am a HUGE fan of Rex Ryan...and there is a connection with the family....is he could bring Rex as a "Sr. Defensive Assistant"...I'd be happier then a pig in slop....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf3qDl0OZmU
(GREAT listen, Gregg W explaining how his D is built....old interview when Buddy passed away)

Great video. I wasn't sure what level of excitement to be at with the hiring of O'Gregg. I'm now all in for this coming season as the beginning of a big turnaround for the Browns. Yes, I'm easily swayed Very Happy.

I might like the Ryan's a lot more than anyone else....Pop's DaWg_Lb. loved a couple of coaches....Joe Gibbs and Jimmy Johnson were here favorite HC's, but Buddy Ryan and Bum Philips were his favorite DC, he thought they had the "Right Mindset" to be DC's...

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Thomas5737 wrote:
sdrawkcab321 wrote:
zelbell wrote:
Let's get off of the personal attacks

I don't think any personal attacks have been made.

Are you calling Zel a liar and an idiot?
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 13596
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohiogenius wrote:
Unless Tyrone Holmes shows up 15-20 lbs heavier hes not a 4-3 RE.

Another guy like Nate Orchard. Probably better suited as a rotational OLB

Cam Johnson is a capable back up who should be resigned at DE #4.

Garrett (Soloman/Barrett if we take Allen)
Ogbah
Nassib
Johnson
Orchard (at least through training camp to see what he has)

Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Why does Holmes need to gain 20lbs?

I think most of us are talking about using him as a DPR type of a guy and he has plenty of size for that.

Hell, Robert Mathis was a good bit smaller than Holmes and he was just fine.
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dawgdish


Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2663
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.


Realistically, we would be lucky to receive a conditional 2019 6th or 7th round pick for Orchard.


Pretty much - at least that would be more than we got for most of Ray Farmer's failed picks
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19305
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawgdish wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.


Realistically, we would be lucky to receive a conditional 2019 6th or 7th round pick for Orchard.


Pretty much - at least that would be more than we got for most of Ray Farmer's failed picks


If anyone can do it, it's Sashi. He traded a 7th for a punter, then traded that punter for a 4th.

Sorcery.
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brownie man


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 7595
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
dawgdish wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.


Realistically, we would be lucky to receive a conditional 2019 6th or 7th round pick for Orchard.


Pretty much - at least that would be more than we got for most of Ray Farmer's failed picks


If anyone can do it, it's Sashi. He traded a 7th for a punter, then traded that punter for a 4th.

Sorcery.


lol I'm a huge fan of Sashi people are knocking him, but hes a savage trade wise we just haven't really benefited from it yet because the picks haven't been made yet.
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My Favorite Guys This draft
Deshone Kizer, Malik Hooker, Carlos Watkins, Adoree Jackson, Budda Baker, TJ Watt, Montravius Adams, Ryan Switzer, Kendall Beckwith, Davis Webb, Des Lawrence, Amba Etta-Tawo, Jamaal Williams, Bucky Hodges
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 13596
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brownie man wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
dawgdish wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.


Realistically, we would be lucky to receive a conditional 2019 6th or 7th round pick for Orchard.


Pretty much - at least that would be more than we got for most of Ray Farmer's failed picks


If anyone can do it, it's Sashi. He traded a 7th for a punter, then traded that punter for a 4th.

Sorcery.


lol I'm a huge fan of Sashi people are knocking him, but hes a savage trade wise we just haven't really benefited from it yet because the picks haven't been made yet.


Folks think he's incompetent because he was here at the same time as Ray Farmer therefor he's partly responsible for the mistakes Farmer made. It's asinine.
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Adopt-a-Brown 2016
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 5912
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
dawgdish wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.


Realistically, we would be lucky to receive a conditional 2019 6th or 7th round pick for Orchard.


Pretty much - at least that would be more than we got for most of Ray Farmer's failed picks


If anyone can do it, it's Sashi. He traded a 7th for a punter, then traded that punter for a 4th.

Sorcery.


Not to mention, he also got a draft pick from a division rival to take on a CLEARLY busted player and his 1rst round salary...that we were going to cut anyway.......that's like getting someone to give you a few dollars for your recycling before you put it on the curb....


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Second Ballot Cleveland Browns Forum Hall of Fame Inductee.
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 7212
Location: 8 mile by way of St. Clair E.99
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Unless Tyrone Holmes shows up 15-20 lbs heavier hes not a 4-3 RE.

Another guy like Nate Orchard. Probably better suited as a rotational OLB

Cam Johnson is a capable back up who should be resigned at DE #4.

Garrett (Soloman/Barrett if we take Allen)
Ogbah
Nassib
Johnson
Orchard (at least through training camp to see what he has)

Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Why does Holmes need to gain 20lbs?

I think most of us are talking about using him as a DPR type of a guy and he has plenty of size for that.

Hell, Robert Mathis was a good bit smaller than Holmes and he was just fine.



You beat me to it, he would fit right in in Seattle
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bosko1616


Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 3157
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there anyone who could do a general overview of Williams Defense. What he's looking for in players. What sets he's in a majority of the time. I know he's rocking the 4-3. Heavy blitzer. In nickel he uses a lot of 3 safety. Likes to leave his FS deep. With SS/LB playing the will ( Mark Barron ) and I Heavy in the box safety ( TJ McDonald )
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 5912
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bosko1616 wrote:
Is there anyone who could do a general overview of Williams Defense. What he's looking for in players. What sets he's in a majority of the time. I know he's rocking the 4-3. Heavy blitzer. In nickel he uses a lot of 3 safety. Likes to leave his FS deep. With SS/LB playing the will ( Mark Barron ) and I Heavy in the box safety ( TJ McDonald )


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000355517/article/st-louis-rams-defense-will-fully-blossom-under-gregg-williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf3qDl0OZmU
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dawgdish


Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2663
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
brownie man wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
dawgdish wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
ohiogenius wrote:
Ideally we can trade Orchard to a 3-4 team by showing them the last 4 games of the 2015 season.


Ideally Orchard could be used in a trade for a center, slot receiver or nickleback with starting experience as those are positions we need that wouldn't be high draft priorities.


Realistically, we would be lucky to receive a conditional 2019 6th or 7th round pick for Orchard.


Pretty much - at least that would be more than we got for most of Ray Farmer's failed picks


If anyone can do it, it's Sashi. He traded a 7th for a punter, then traded that punter for a 4th.

Sorcery.


lol I'm a huge fan of Sashi people are knocking him, but hes a savage trade wise we just haven't really benefited from it yet because the picks haven't been made yet.


Folks think he's incompetent because he was here at the same time as Ray Farmer therefor he's partly responsible for the mistakes Farmer made. It's asinine.


Being able to work finances and trades are clearly skillsets within Sashi's wheelhouse. The jury is still out on his ability to scout and select quality draft picks.
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