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| Whose Your Choice for the Broncos Next Head Coach? |
| Vance Joseph |
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22% |
[ 8 ] |
| Kyle Shanahan |
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42% |
[ 15 ] |
| Dave Toub |
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34% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 35 |
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champ11
Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 5868
Location: CO -> ATX
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 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| broncos67 wrote: | | elliot878 wrote: | As I've said - there's no bonafide right answer to the HC position when every candidate would be a first timer. I'm fine with Vance Joseph - fine with any option, as we really dont know. Didn't get the shots taken on VJ, as he's succeeded to a pretty high level at literally every coaching position he's held in the NFL. I was never going to get excited/disappointed over the head coaching decision. Makes no sense to get emotional one way or the other about a guy I know nothing about in the position he's hired for.
I will get excited/disappointed about our coordinator hires though. Excited that it sounds like we're keeping Wade. Vance and Wade worked well together in Houston. The fact Vance wants Wade makes it sound to me like he wants to focus on the overall team, and not specialize. That to me is smart management, it's a new undertaking, a much bigger undertaking than anything he's had, and its smart of him to not overload himself out of the gate by being de facto DC and head coach.
For OC I'd rank my choices as Lynn, Musgrave, McCoy. I will be very disappointed if we promote from within, I don't see a good candidate on the roster. Would like to see what Musgrave can do with developing Siemian/Lynch. Think Lynn offers instant improvement to our offense, but he's also likely gone after this year for a HC spot... I doubt that Elway wants that kind of turnover with young QB's developing currently. |
I understand where you and others are coming from with this, but then what's even the point of the forum, you know? Yes, none of us are involved with the coaching search to the level where we know how the candidates act in front of a panel or in the locker room, but as fans we can still use the evidence that qualified a person for a job in the first place- the performance of the units they oversaw.
It's 100% true that there's not a direct correlation between unit success and HC success- as George pointed out on Twitter- but my personal belief is that if your units don't perform well under your leadership- it sounds like there's more at play.
El, I think your example of Teryl Austin from a past thread is a great one. Detroit's D isn't the best, but his ability to absolutely maximize that talent makes him intriguing. Vance Joseph has spend most of his life developing DBs- which is fine- but most of the DBs he's developed aren't even good. Johnathan Joseph, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Pacman Jones- these guys were all first round picks- they are slightly above average players in the league. Joe Woods has had more success than Vance Joseph has in this area and seems to be equally as well regarded. DB coaches are responsible for developing a core unit, but even as DC you are responsible for roughly half the team- a major reason many coordinators are considered for HC jobs. Yet, Miami's D wasn't particularly impressive this year, and gave up, what, 5 or 6 30 point games? Understood they had injuries, but so does every team.
I personally would have preferred someone whop has managed an entire side of the ball for longer than one year. I think the success rate is higher with more experience. Going from overseeing a unit of 6-8 players, to 25, to an entire team and practice squad in two years is a huge jump. I'm just a little skeptical. |
The experience factor is a fair concern. 100 percent okay with that causing skepticism, I'm sure we all feel the same way.
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team rammy
Joined: 3/10/2007 |
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champ11
Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 5868
Location: CO -> ATX
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | This is Josh McDaniels all over again.
The reason the mac hire failed is because we were coming off a team with an elite offense and terrible D yet hired an offensive guy. He ignored the D so it stayed horrible and he tried to mould the offense into his own style with disastrous consequences.
The same thing is going to happen now. The offense will be neglected whilst the good parts of the defense will be dismantled.
It's a sad day. |
dude our defense is good because we have the best duo of cornerbacks the league has seen in the last decade or so and we have the best pass rusher in the league. that's not gonna be dismantled.
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team rammy
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paul-mac
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 12230
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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And the powers that be are absolutely going to hold the front office including Elway accountable for this train wreck of a decision
In a couple of years when the McDisaster happens all over again I think Ellis will clean house, not just fire the coach.
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| Victor Cruz Pun wrote: | | DavidatMIZZOU wrote: | | Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time. |
Fify. |
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paul-mac
Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 12230
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| champ11 wrote: | | paul-mac wrote: | This is Josh McDaniels all over again.
The reason the mac hire failed is because we were coming off a team with an elite offense and terrible D yet hired an offensive guy. He ignored the D so it stayed horrible and he tried to mould the offense into his own style with disastrous consequences.
The same thing is going to happen now. The offense will be neglected whilst the good parts of the defense will be dismantled.
It's a sad day. |
dude our defense is good because we have the best duo of cornerbacks the league has seen in the last decade or so and we have the best pass rusher in the league. that's not gonna be dismantled. |
Probably gonna trade them all to Miami or Chicago
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| Victor Cruz Pun wrote: | | DavidatMIZZOU wrote: | | Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time. |
Fify. |
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BroncosFan2010
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | This is Josh McDaniels all over again.
The reason the mac hire failed is because we were coming off a team with an elite offense and terrible D yet hired an offensive guy. He ignored the D so it stayed horrible and he tried to mould the offense into his own style with disastrous consequences.
The same thing is going to happen now. The offense will be neglected whilst the good parts of the defense will be dismantled.
It's a sad day. |
Reports are already indicating that Wade will be kept. Would McDaniels EVER do something like that? lol. No.
Vance isn't anything like Josh personality wise. And there is no indication that he will lean too heavily towards defense.
Keeping Wade is huge, huge, huge. It indicates that Vance sees the big picture. If you don't see that, I don't know what else to say.
There are literally zero parallels between Josh and Vance. Zero. |
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broncos67
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 24151
Location: PA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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For the 1000th time, the issue with Mac was that he was given full control to dismantle the team and do all of those wonky trades and personnel acquisitions. That was only amplified by the fact that his personality was horrendous and rubbed everyone the wrong way.
Vance Joseph isn't going to have that kind of power, so I don't expect to see him gutting the entire team.
I also don't think Vance Joseph being a defensive coach matters much in terms of what he could bring to an offense. Dan Quinn is a defensive coach and got Kyle Shanahan to ATL. I'm just skeptical f his ability to run an entire team.
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iLikeDefense
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 3724
Location: San Diego--Mile High West
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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I am not sure why any of you bite on that the world is going to end drama from some posters. If VJ if the HC, MHR is probably going to be like the Jags forum, pure gold.
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 25678
Location: ATL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Taking my Raider goggles off here.... Glad Denver shied away from Shanahan because I don't think that guy is a leader. Everything you here in Atlanta is he's pretty much the worst as a person, so others on the staff really step into a leadership role with the players so he can do what he does best, call offense.
Toub is a guy I was pounding the table for Oakland to hire before JDR. I just like what he's done at all his stops and I personally like the ST coach becoming a HC. A guy who works with both O and D players on ST, so can really delegate to his coaches. And if you listen to the guy, he just has something to him you gravitate towards. Hurting KC also a plus.
Vance . . I'm torn on. His resume isn't exactly bursting with success. Kind of "just a guy" all these years on staffs. In Miami he inherited a lot of good players on defense, but they are not exactly a powerhouse group.
Really don't know how to feel about the hire. Where does he excel exactly? I never really trust these coordinators that come out of know where. Reminds me a lot of Perry Fewell's career trajectory and persona. As a rival fan, I like the hire from the standpoint of it feels 50/50. I don't think the Broncos got better with the hire and he OC/DC choices will ultimately make or break it
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cddolphin
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12777
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | | In Miami he inherited a lot of good players on defense, but they are not exactly a powerhouse group. |
Ehh...
Suh, Wake.. and that's it
Jones was hurt 3/4 of the year
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| Bednarik60 wrote: | | Also you should get the ban hammer for being against Kate Upton and Jennifer Lawerence gifs. |
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mke1010
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 2749
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| paul-mac wrote: | | Well I hope I'm wrong but my gut feeling is this will ultimately be the decision that in five years we talk about as the beginning of the end of the John Elway era |
I love this forum a bit more when I hv had a few unexpected brews at a lunch meeting. 
Makes a lot of the over dramatizations and melodrama comedic.  |
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BroncoinGermany
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 3407
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Per Allbright (click on link!):
| Quote: | Per source close to #Dolphins on Vance Joseph...
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C16Y7VhUQAACHB1.jpg:large
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The situation is hopeless, but not serious.
Last edited by BroncoinGermany on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jsthomp2007
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 8722
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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If VD...wait...VJ can lure Suh over to Denver...that would be pretty cool. Suh would be right at home in Denver....went to NE...from Portland...makes a lot of sense now.
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Ninja stealth muggers in the Bellagio has left me in a state of congitive disonance...
Last edited by jsthomp2007 on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ElJefe7
Joined: 27 Aug 2016
Posts: 54
Location: Pereira, Colombia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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McDaniels didnt fail because he was an Offensive HC. He failed because he couldnt work with people and refused to accept different ways of doing things as well as having a poor eye for talent.
Vance Joseph had experience on both sides of the ball. He was a former QB and obviously coached defenses. His success will have nothing to do with him being an offensive or defensive guy but his ability to empower his coaches an players |
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cddolphin
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 12777
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jsthomp2007 wrote: | | If VD...wait...VJ can lure Suh over to Denver...that would be pretty cool. Suh would be right at home in Denver....went to NE...from Portland...makes a lot of sense now. |
Pipe dream, you can't have him!
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| Bednarik60 wrote: | | Also you should get the ban hammer for being against Kate Upton and Jennifer Lawerence gifs. |
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jsthomp2007
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 8722
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| cddolphin wrote: | | jsthomp2007 wrote: | | If VD...wait...VJ can lure Suh over to Denver...that would be pretty cool. Suh would be right at home in Denver....went to NE...from Portland...makes a lot of sense now. |
Pipe dream, you can't have him! |
Colorado knows a thing or two about pipes 
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Ninja stealth muggers in the Bellagio has left me in a state of congitive disonance...
Last edited by jsthomp2007 on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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