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Who Should Be Our Next Head Coach?
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Whose Your Choice for the Broncos Next Head Coach?
Vance Joseph
22%
 22%  [ 8 ]
Kyle Shanahan
42%
 42%  [ 15 ]
Dave Toub
34%
 34%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 35

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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3442
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For those that feared this hire based upon the fact that it was leaked he was going to promote Joe Woods, I think I interpreted that different than you. I think that was a sign that he wants to keep the defensive staff together no matter what, and that signs have been pointing to Wade leaving for reasons unrelated to the HC.


Woods is only 46. He is a great coach, and his time will come, likely as our DC. But that time isn't quite yet. Wade is riding high still, and he needs to be kept in charge. Lets remember that, unless I am mistaken, Wade is the oldest HC, DC or OC in the entire league. He wont be around that much longer, but until he decides to go fishing, or really drops off, he needs to remain a Denver Bronco.
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broncos_fan _from _uk


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
For those that feared this hire based upon the fact that it was leaked he was going to promote Joe Woods, I think I interpreted that different than you. I think that was a sign that he wants to keep the defensive staff together no matter what, and that signs have been pointing to Wade leaving for reasons unrelated to the HC.


Woods is only 46. He is a great coach, and his time will come, likely as our DC. But that time isn't quite yet. Wade is riding high still, and he needs to be kept in charge. Lets remember that, unless I am mistaken, Wade is the oldest HC, DC or OC in the entire league. He wont be around that much longer, but until he decides to go fishing, or really drops off, he needs to remain a Denver Bronco.
I'm not denying that. My point is that I think wade staying or going is dependent upon other factors (contract talks with Elway, wanting to work with his son in Wash, ect) and that the leaked promotion of Woods was not an indication of Vance trying to push Wade out, as many have painted it to be.
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BroncoinGermany


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Per Ben Allbright:

Quote:
While no official announcement yet, I am told "ironing out details but Vance [Joseph] will be the next head coach of the Denver #Broncos"


https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/819229534256037892
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KingBishop


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Told ya. Yuck
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broncofan48


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingBishop wrote:
Told ya. Yuck


Perhaps you've said and I missed it, but what exactly don't you like about the potential Joseph hire?
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BroncoinGermany


Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I am firmly on the Toub bandwagon, but Joseph has been my second choice.

The many times Elway and alleged quotes of him published by pundits have expressed the focus on leadership, communication, vision rather than Xs and Os, it really comes down to his coordinator hirings in terms of my satisfaction level with him.

If Joseph is the delegating CEO-type, the competent long-term strategist rather than game day tactician, that he is made out to be, then he is deserving of the hiring.

Elway knows what he wants and one has to admire that.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Again, I am firmly on the Toub bandwagon, but Joseph has been my second choice.

The many times Elway and alleged quotes of him published by pundits have expressed the focus on leadership, communication, vision rather than Xs and Os, it really comes down to his coordinator hirings in terms of my satisfaction level with him.

If Joseph is the delegating CEO-type, the competent long-term strategist rather than game day tactician, that he is made out to be, then he is deserving of the hiring.

Elway knows what he wants and one has to admire that.


Ya, basically sums up my thoughts. The more I thought about Shanny, the less I liked the idea of him as HC. And while Toub was my man, I can live with Vance. His relationship with Wade is very important to me. How he handles that will indicate how adept he is at delegation.
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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ11 wrote:
broncos_fan _from _uk wrote:
Ive said all along I would like all three of them. Honestly the thought of Shanahan scared me. If it wasnt for his last name I would want nothing to do with him. He is the type of HC that fails in the modern NFL. The fact is the job of the coach has changed so much in the last 20 years, with the size of the staffs and the areas of responsibility, that skills required to be a good coordinator (X/O creativity, exhaustive film study) are not the same as those required to be a good HC. I think the reason so many Hot Coordinators fail is because they are promoted based upon the job they did not their projected ability to do the job they are being promoted into. It's a common phenomenon in the business world known as the Peters Principle.

My top choice is still Toub but I think that Vance will do a fine job, he has more of the requisite skills that a great HC needs.

For those that feared this hire based upon the fact that it was leaked he was going to promote Joe Woods, I think I interpreted that different than you. I think that was a sign that he wants to keep the defensive staff together no matter what, and that signs have been pointing to Wade leaving for reasons unrelated to the HC.

For those that feared this hire based upon him wanting to hire McCoy, I see that as someone who was willing to target the best available known commodity at OC on the market AT THE TIME. He was going to delegate to someone who had shown in the past to get it done (style preferences not withstanding). Now that there are better options available I don't doubt that's who he'll target.

And for those that fear this hiring because hes a CU grad and you have little brother syndrome based upon where you went to school...well I can't help you. Wink

I do want to caution everyone with this. All of the coaches who have won a SB within 3 years of taking over the job in the last 25 years have been previous HCs (either in college or the NFL) with the exception of Mike Tomlin (who VJ is very similar to, so take that for what it's worth).


i love a good uk post



Yup, on point as usual!
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I've said - there's no bonafide right answer to the HC position when every candidate would be a first timer. I'm fine with Vance Joseph - fine with any option, as we really dont know. Didn't get the shots taken on VJ, as he's succeeded to a pretty high level at literally every coaching position he's held in the NFL. I was never going to get excited/disappointed over the head coaching decision. Makes no sense to get emotional one way or the other about a guy I know nothing about in the position he's hired for.


I will get excited/disappointed about our coordinator hires though. Excited that it sounds like we're keeping Wade. Vance and Wade worked well together in Houston. The fact Vance wants Wade makes it sound to me like he wants to focus on the overall team, and not specialize. That to me is smart management, it's a new undertaking, a much bigger undertaking than anything he's had, and its smart of him to not overload himself out of the gate by being de facto DC and head coach.

For OC I'd rank my choices as Lynn, Musgrave, McCoy. I will be very disappointed if we promote from within, I don't see a good candidate on the roster. Would like to see what Musgrave can do with developing Siemian/Lynch. Think Lynn offers instant improvement to our offense, but he's also likely gone after this year for a HC spot... I doubt that Elway wants that kind of turnover with young QB's developing currently.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Joseph hiring comes with Musgrove or Lynn as an OC then it's much better IMO. I'd still have found getting that same OC upgrade with a ST guru like Toub (Nagy would have qualified if available) even more intriguing. But the available OC landscape is really intriguing with both Lynn and Musgrove avialable assuming the Buf-hiring-Mcdermot as HC rumors are true.

If this hire comes with McCoy as OC I'd find this move uninspired. Hopefully we will get a big OC (and OL coach) upgrade paired with the HC.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
As I've said - there's no bonafide right answer to the HC position when every candidate would be a first timer. I'm fine with Vance Joseph - fine with any option, as we really dont know. Didn't get the shots taken on VJ, as he's succeeded to a pretty high level at literally every coaching position he's held in the NFL. I was never going to get excited/disappointed over the head coaching decision. Makes no sense to get emotional one way or the other about a guy I know nothing about in the position he's hired for.


I will get excited/disappointed about our coordinator hires though. Excited that it sounds like we're keeping Wade. Vance and Wade worked well together in Houston. The fact Vance wants Wade makes it sound to me like he wants to focus on the overall team, and not specialize. That to me is smart management, it's a new undertaking, a much bigger undertaking than anything he's had, and its smart of him to not overload himself out of the gate by being de facto DC and head coach.

For OC I'd rank my choices as Lynn, Musgrave, McCoy. I will be very disappointed if we promote from within, I don't see a good candidate on the roster. Would like to see what Musgrave can do with developing Siemian/Lynch. Think Lynn offers instant improvement to our offense, but he's also likely gone after this year for a HC spot... I doubt that Elway wants that kind of turnover with young QB's developing currently.


I understand where you and others are coming from with this, but then what's even the point of the forum, you know? Yes, none of us are involved with the coaching search to the level where we know how the candidates act in front of a panel or in the locker room, but as fans we can still use the evidence that qualified a person for a job in the first place- the performance of the units they oversaw.

It's 100% true that there's not a direct correlation between unit success and HC success- as George pointed out on Twitter- but my personal belief is that if your units don't perform well under your leadership- it sounds like there's more at play.

El, I think your example of Teryl Austin from a past thread is a great one. Detroit's D isn't the best, but his ability to absolutely maximize that talent makes him intriguing. Vance Joseph has spend most of his life developing DBs- which is fine- but most of the DBs he's developed aren't even good. Johnathan Joseph, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Pacman Jones- these guys were all first round picks- they are slightly above average players in the league. Joe Woods has had more success than Vance Joseph has in this area and seems to be equally as well regarded. DB coaches are responsible for developing a core unit, but even as DC you are responsible for roughly half the team- a major reason many coordinators are considered for HC jobs. Yet, Miami's D wasn't particularly impressive this year, and gave up, what, 5 or 6 30 point games? Understood they had injuries, but so does every team.

I personally would have preferred someone whop has managed an entire side of the ball for longer than one year. I think the success rate is higher with more experience. Going from overseeing a unit of 6-8 players, to 25, to an entire team and practice squad in two years is a huge jump. I'm just a little skeptical.
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I hope I'm wrong but my gut feeling is this will ultimately be the decision that in five years we talk about as the beginning of the end of the John Elway era
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broncofan48


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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Location: Central Montana
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
As I've said - there's no bonafide right answer to the HC position when every candidate would be a first timer. I'm fine with Vance Joseph - fine with any option, as we really dont know. Didn't get the shots taken on VJ, as he's succeeded to a pretty high level at literally every coaching position he's held in the NFL. I was never going to get excited/disappointed over the head coaching decision. Makes no sense to get emotional one way or the other about a guy I know nothing about in the position he's hired for.


I will get excited/disappointed about our coordinator hires though. Excited that it sounds like we're keeping Wade. Vance and Wade worked well together in Houston. The fact Vance wants Wade makes it sound to me like he wants to focus on the overall team, and not specialize. That to me is smart management, it's a new undertaking, a much bigger undertaking than anything he's had, and its smart of him to not overload himself out of the gate by being de facto DC and head coach.

For OC I'd rank my choices as Lynn, Musgrave, McCoy. I will be very disappointed if we promote from within, I don't see a good candidate on the roster. Would like to see what Musgrave can do with developing Siemian/Lynch. Think Lynn offers instant improvement to our offense, but he's also likely gone after this year for a HC spot... I doubt that Elway wants that kind of turnover with young QB's developing currently.


I understand where you and others are coming from with this, but then what's even the point of the forum, you know? Yes, none of us are involved with the coaching search to the level where we know how the candidates act in front of a panel or in the locker room, but as fans we can still use the evidence that qualified a person for a job in the first place- the performance of the units they oversaw.

It's 100% true that there's not a direct correlation between unit success and HC success- as George pointed out on Twitter- but my personal belief is that if your units don't perform well under your leadership- it sounds like there's more at play.

El, I think your example of Teryl Austin from a past thread is a great one. Detroit's D isn't the best, but his ability to absolutely maximize that talent makes him intriguing. Vance Joseph has spend most of his life developing DBs- which is fine- but most of the DBs he's developed aren't even good. Johnathan Joseph, Dre Kirkpatrick, Darqueze Dennard, Pacman Jones- these guys were all first round picks- they are slightly above average players in the league. Joe Woods has had more success than Vance Joseph has in this area and seems to be equally as well regarded. DB coaches are responsible for developing a core unit, but even as DC you are responsible for roughly half the team- a major reason many coordinators are considered for HC jobs. Yet, Miami's D wasn't particularly impressive this year, and gave up, what, 5 or 6 30 point games? Understood they had injuries, but so does every team.

I personally would have preferred someone whop has managed an entire side of the ball for longer than one year. I think the success rate is higher with more experience. Going from overseeing a unit of 6-8 players, to 25, to an entire team and practice squad in two years is a huge jump. I'm just a little skeptical.


In the case of Miami's defense, they lost their best player in Jones, akin to us losing Von. The talent level across the board was weak other than Suh.

I'm not fully sold on Joseph yet, I think if he keeps Wade its a huge step in the right direction. What really will be critical is the OC hire.

I'm not super worried about how bad the Miami defense was, what it comes down to can Vance lead and delegate and surround himself with successful coaches. Thats the mark of any good boss
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broncofan48


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
Well I hope I'm wrong but my gut feeling is this will ultimately be the decision that in five years we talk about as the beginning of the end of the John Elway era


A mistake on the coaching hire isn't going to get John Elway fired. Even if we have some losing seasons and struggle because of it.
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Josh McDaniels all over again.


The reason the mac hire failed is because we were coming off a team with an elite offense and terrible D yet hired an offensive guy. He ignored the D so it stayed horrible and he tried to mould the offense into his own style with disastrous consequences.

The same thing is going to happen now. The offense will be neglected whilst the good parts of the defense will be dismantled.

It's a sad day.
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DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
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