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Jimmie G and "buyer beware" from Pats
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Jimmie G and "buyer beware" from Pats Reply with quote

now guys,
this is just my opinion
but I noticed on many threads, that there is an overwhelming desire to trade for Jimmy Garapolo (sp?) with our new GM and Coaching regime.

Here's my issue with this.

1. as great as Tom Brady is, he is coming to the end of his career and Jimmy played well enough in those games he played to possibly win him first crack at being Brady's successor. So why in the world would the Pats want to trade away their heir apparent?

2. you really have to be careful about dealing with the pats ( they are sneaky smart) and typically when they trade you, cut you, etc. they know something that the team on the other end won't realize until its way too late.
its been my experience that the pats don't let go of you until you are completely used up, can't play in any other scheme, or just can't play.

so if they agreed to a trade of Jimmy G it would scare the hell out of me.

again just my thoughts.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typically I agree - Buyer Beware when it comes to dealing with the Patriots. However, in this case, Brady has expressed a desire to play for multiple years still, and Garoppolo will be in the final year of his rookie deal with no reason to stay longer.

He might just have looked good because of the Pats system, so that is still a possibility.
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dan77733


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly have no interest in McDaniels and Garoppolo as the HC/QB of the 49ers. I think that McDaniels is one of those guys who'll always be best suited as an OC and he a good team in Denver and traded away everyone that was good. His success is because of Belichick and Brady, period. If he ever succeeds as a HC, good for him but I don't want the 49ers being the team that gives him that chance simply because I don't see him succeeding outside of NE.

And to trade our 2nd rounder and more plus a long term extension, hell no!!! The new GM/HC should build up the defense, draft the best WR they can and draft a QB in 2018 in which that QB will already have a better team around him than what Garoppolo and McDaniels would have this year especially when the team would be trading away draft picks.

I'm really hoping for Eliot Wolf from GB to be the new GM and wouldn't mind Kyle Shanahan as the new HC and go from there.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
Typically I agree - Buyer Beware when it comes to dealing with the Patriots. However, in this case, Brady has expressed a desire to play for multiple years still, and Garoppolo will be in the final year of his rookie deal with no reason to stay longer.

He might just have looked good because of the Pats system, so that is still a possibility.



Yes, those are the reasons why the Pats consider trading him, not necessarily because there's something wrong with him that's hidden to everyone else but the Pats. Just because it happened with Matt Cassel, doesn't mean Garoppolo is just a mirage created by the great magician Belichik. Might be, but maybe not. He was, after all, a good enough prospect to be drafted in the second round in his own right, which Matt Cassel wasn't. Then, maybe we can bring in Ryan Mallett into the discussion, and that would be fair game.

Personally, I'm torn. If we go Garoppolo, it's with McDaniels. I'm not sure I want McDaniels, but if we do get him, I do hope we can get Garoppolo without giving away too much, since he can't be any worse than the QBs available in this draft, and does have professional training and some experience under his belt, along with the chance to learn under Brady what it is to be a great QB, leader of a franchise and a winner. We could probably do a lot worse.

I'm okay without Garoppolo, and would be cautiously optimistic with him.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Jimmie G and "buyer beware" from Pats Reply with quote

Pandomonium wrote:
now guys,
this is just my opinion
but I noticed on many threads, that there is an overwhelming desire to trade for Jimmy Garapolo (sp?) with our new GM and Coaching regime.

Here's my issue with this.

1. as great as Tom Brady is, he is coming to the end of his career and Jimmy played well enough in those games he played to possibly win him first crack at being Brady's successor. So why in the world would the Pats want to trade away their heir apparent?

2. you really have to be careful about dealing with the pats ( they are sneaky smart) and typically when they trade you, cut you, etc. they know something that the team on the other end won't realize until its way too late.
its been my experience that the pats don't let go of you until you are completely used up, can't play in any other scheme, or just can't play.

so if they agreed to a trade of Jimmy G it would scare the hell out of me.

again just my thoughts.


Purely contract considerations. Brady wants to play a few more years and Jimmie G will become a free agent and leave for no compensation rather than sit behind Brady for several more years. So why not trade him while he can still get the Pats some decent compensation for him.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
y2lamanaki wrote:
Typically I agree - Buyer Beware when it comes to dealing with the Patriots. However, in this case, Brady has expressed a desire to play for multiple years still, and Garoppolo will be in the final year of his rookie deal with no reason to stay longer.

He might just have looked good because of the Pats system, so that is still a possibility.



Yes, those are the reasons why the Pats consider trading him, not necessarily because there's something wrong with him that's hidden to everyone else but the Pats. Just because it happened with Matt Cassel, doesn't mean Garoppolo is just a mirage created by the great magician Belichik. Might be, but maybe not. He was, after all, a good enough prospect to be drafted in the second round in his own right, which Matt Cassel wasn't. Then, maybe we can bring in Ryan Mallett into the discussion, and that would be fair game.

Personally, I'm torn. If we go Garoppolo, it's with McDaniels. I'm not sure I want McDaniels, but if we do get him, I do hope we can get Garoppolo without giving away too much, since he can't be any worse than the QBs available in this draft, and does have professional training and some experience under his belt, along with the chance to learn under Brady what it is to be a great QB, leader of a franchise and a winner. We could probably do a lot worse.

I'm okay without Garoppolo, and would be cautiously optimistic with him.


Why do those two have to be a pair. IF (not saying it's so) Jimmie G turns out to be one of the best QBs available this year through draft or FA why would we only be interested in him if McDaniels is the coach. For instance Shanahan has done a great job with young QBs. Maybe he'd want him.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hesitant with him as well. Such a small sample size. I do agree it would really only make sense if we go with McDaniels. Why? He would at least get to continue with the same offensive system and if McDaniels makes the move from Jimmie G, it would show he thinks he is the real deal.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, as I said in the other thread, it's very simple.

The idea of spending a second this year on Jimmy G for a year is superior to spending the #2 overall pick on one of these quarterbacks. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of these guys coming out. The contract situation for Jimmy G doesn't bother me since we won't be truly competitive for a few years and have nothing but money. If he craps the bed, we lose a second (maybe a conditional pick the following year or whatever), but only one year it trying to figure him out, and then come back next year and take our QBOFT in a stacked class.

Take Trubisky at #2 overall, and you could be set back 3-5 years, and I really don't have anything that tells me he (or any other quarterback in this class) is safer or has more potential. At least with Jimmy G / McDaniels, he's also already familiar with the coach, scheme, plays, etc. . I don't have any fewer questions on these prospects than I do on Jimmy G, and at least the latter didn't look completely lost out there this year, so there's that.

I'd rather have a combination of Barnett / Jimmy G than a combination of Mitch Trubisky and Dawuane Smoot (just picking out an olb to keep it in line with the Barnett selection). I'd rather Barnett / Jimmy G than Trubisky and Sutton.

It sucks that the reasoning for this is that I'm planning for failure Sad
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
I'm hesitant with him as well. Such a small sample size. I do agree it would really only make sense if we go with McDaniels. Why? He would at least get to continue with the same offensive system and if McDaniels makes the move from Jimmie G, it would show he thinks he is the real deal.



Exactly this. For me, the McDaniels/Garoppolo marriage is simply to reinforce the confidence that either will succeed. I feel McDaniels is more likely to succeed with his pick of a QB, and that Jimmy is more likely to succeed with his coach. If we get McDaniels and he wants nothing to do with Jimmy, then I'm going to worry, because McDaniels has once upon a time traded up for Tim Tebow, which tells me that in the face of the unknown, he's prone to do stupid things like drafting Tim Tebow. Jimmy wouldn't be an unknown to him. That would instill some confidence in the plan. Still not a 100% or anywhere near, because McDaniels does scare me quite a bit...
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
I'm hesitant with him as well. Such a small sample size. I do agree it would really only make sense if we go with McDaniels. Why? He would at least get to continue with the same offensive system and if McDaniels makes the move from Jimmie G, it would show he thinks he is the real deal.



Exactly this. For me, the McDaniels/Garoppolo marriage is simply to reinforce the confidence that either will succeed. I feel McDaniels is more likely to succeed with his pick of a QB, and that Jimmy is more likely to succeed with his coach. If we get McDaniels and he wants nothing to do with Jimmy, then I'm going to worry, because McDaniels has once upon a time traded up for Tim Tebow, which tells me that in the face of the unknown, he's prone to do stupid things like drafting Tim Tebow. Jimmy wouldn't be an unknown to him. That would instill some confidence in the plan. Still not a 100% or anywhere near, because McDaniels does scare me quite a bit...


+ 1. I'm not sure if Garoppolo is the second coming of Brady and if McDaniels is going to be successful here, but I'd think running the successful system they ran in New England here, both having experience and a background in it only benefits them. And as I mentioned I'm not sure either will be successful, I'm hoping they are and we have McDaniels for the next 15 years and Garoppolo is our star QB, but seeing as none of us know that I think pairing them together only puts these two in the best possibly position to succeed. Also people comparing Garoppolo to Mallet and Cassel is a little bit ridiculous to me, Garoppolo was a legit 2nd round QB in his own right, the others were known to be large question marks.

My though behind it all is this, as much as I like Watson and Trubisky I too have questions about their game and how they will translate to the NFL. Next year class is supposedly much better. That being said Barnett/Garrett and Garoppolo sounds a lot better to me than Trubisky and McKinley or whatever 2nd round OLB you want to insert there. Garoppolo has one more year left on his contract so let him play for a big pay day, if he plays well we may very well be set at QB, if he bombs or is just marginal we draft a stud QB next year and use him as a stop gap on a team friendly contract. If can even be a Garoppolo friendly contract, we have the money and are all aware that this is going to be a multi year rebuilding process. Let's give ourselves the best opportunity possible to nail down the most important position in the game early in the rebuild process.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
For me, as I said in the other thread, it's very simple.

The idea of spending a second this year on Jimmy G for a year is superior to spending the #2 overall pick on one of these quarterbacks. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of these guys coming out. The contract situation for Jimmy G doesn't bother me since we won't be truly competitive for a few years and have nothing but money. If he craps the bed, we lose a second (maybe a conditional pick the following year or whatever), but only one year it trying to figure him out, and then come back next year and take our QBOFT in a stacked class.


this is how I feel about it ^

.. except I don't think the 49ers are so far away from being a good team. A handful of strong additions, and coaches.. a little luck on quick cohesion.. and the NFC competition doesn't scare me that much moving forward. Wink
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
Forge wrote:
For me, as I said in the other thread, it's very simple.

The idea of spending a second this year on Jimmy G for a year is superior to spending the #2 overall pick on one of these quarterbacks. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of these guys coming out. The contract situation for Jimmy G doesn't bother me since we won't be truly competitive for a few years and have nothing but money. If he craps the bed, we lose a second (maybe a conditional pick the following year or whatever), but only one year it trying to figure him out, and then come back next year and take our QBOFT in a stacked class.


this is how I feel about it ^



.. except I don't think the 49ers are so far away from being a good team. A handful of strong additions, and coaches.. a little luck on quick cohesion.. and the NFC competition doesn't scare me that much moving forward. Wink


I agree ... he says with a look of pure optimism on his face.

Trade 34 for Garapolo. Trade 2 for a high first and a low first. Get Barnett and a WR or ILB. Take a center in the 3rd. Have some luck in the lower rounds to get at least solid backups. Add a choice FA or two. Then just repeat this whole process next year.
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mrscottso


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I would rather keep, and build around Kap. If we got Josh Mc, and he wants to bring Jimmy G, I guess I would be ok. Because if he is willing to put his job on the line with this guy he must believe in him.

But we need some much stuff, and I don't see anyone better than Kap out there. Maybe Cutler. (but he isn't young.) And I hope we get a GM before anything.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have grudgingly agreed with you, mrscottso...

- had Chip stayed...
- if Kaep had been a better 2nd half QB instead of 1st half QB...
- and, quite frankly, if I didn't feel Kaep was such a d-nozzle. ( I forget what is and isn't allowed here, lol.. hope that much is acceptable )

He appeared as if he was looking at least somewhat capable yet again, though wildly inconsistent.. but I don't want to see a QB like Kaep have to grow through yet another new scheme. The 49ers need to shake it up.. and they sure did with the firing of Baalke and Chip.. but I want to start fresh at QB too.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm somewhere in between you two. I think Kaep staying wouldn't be the worst conclusion for 2017. But I do want to find a longterm answer, whether that be Garoppolo, another young veteran, or a draft pick in 2018. I'm done with Kaepernick (the player), but it's not like there's a lot of options on the shelves for the 2017 QB sale.
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