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2017 Draft Thread Pt. 2
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 25936
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
G08 wrote:
No disrespect here, but that's the stupidest thing I've read on this board in a while.


He had several throws picked off this season on balls that floated and often underthrows the deep ball.


Show me one throw where it shows his arm is borderline undraftable
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gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/OGP_uJfqzL0?t=187
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 25936
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
https://youtu.be/OGP_uJfqzL0?t=187


That shows an arm that's borderline undraftable?
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6898
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
https://youtu.be/OGP_uJfqzL0?t=187


Look at his feet, and then look at his feet when he doesn't have to hold the mesh point on a zone-read, PA pass.

Come on man...
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 25936
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
gah112 wrote:
https://youtu.be/OGP_uJfqzL0?t=187


Look at his feet, and then look at his feet when he doesn't have to hold the mesh point on a zone-read, PA pass.

Come on man...


They are reaching...I mean if anything his arm strength is being held back by poor mechanics
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/-TWYpez5h_M?t=1152

That's on a rope and he couldn't follow through onto his front foot due to pressure. His arm is fine. Mahomes and Trubisky have better arms, IMO, but Watson can play in the NFL.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/OGP_uJfqzL0?t=758

Ball's floated and off target, DB undercuts the route easily.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
https://youtu.be/OGP_uJfqzL0?t=758

Ball's floated and off target, DB undercuts the route easily.


He undercuts it easily because the WR is on the ground! Laughing
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TB 1


Joined: 16 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chewtoy wrote:
Divorcing the players of everything but stats (which only a moron would do, I realize...) I am surprised by how similar Peyton and Watson's college stat lines look:

Watson: 38 starts, 10,168 yards, 67.4% comp, 90 Tds, 32 Ints, 157.5 rating
Manning:45 starts, 11,201 yards, 62.5% comp, 89 Tds, 33 Ints, 147.1 rating

And Peyton's team was sort of loaded, too. Shaun Ellis, Terry Fair, Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Leonard Little, Peerless Price, Deon Grant....

I don't think they are that comparable. And Manning was in a pro style offense, which is huge. But it does make me skeptical of some of the nits ( Ints, accuracy, loaded team).



Football has become a much more pass happy game in the last 20-25 years. It is much easier to pass the ball in both college and the NFL. Especially with the quick pace offense which tires defense's out at the college level. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where Watson get's drafted because he will get his chance to show that he is a good NFL QB.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
https://youtu.be/OGP_uJfqzL0?t=758

Ball's floated and off target, DB undercuts the route easily.


Are you sure you know what "floated" means?
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do wish this forum had a better search function, because I made a post about this months ago, with video clips...

Basically it's not the ability for Watson to get the ball out there, that is the problem, rather it is absolutely the hang time in the air that causes the problem...

If I remember right my post had Mahomes throwing a 55 yard pass right hash to left endzone vs Watson throwing a 45 yard pass from right hash to left hash...

And Mahomes ball STILL getting there first..

That pick Hooker had on Watson in the finals game this year, simply wouldn't have happened with Mahomes, because Hooker wouldn't have had time to get there.

"2 mph ball velocity might not seem like a big deal, but it translates to 3 ft travelled on 20 yd throw in same time frame. Huge NFL window" was one of the tweets after Watson's embarrassing lack of arm strength at the combine.

And that's before accounting for the different arc you have to make to throw deeper balls via basic physics.

That's ~13.5ft difference on a 20 yard throw between Mahomes and Watson using Mahomes' numbers for his recent nfl segment... and that translates substantially more hang time for Watson passes.
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gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DB undercut the route before Williams fell and would have picked it off either way. The ball needed to be thrown with velocity high and to the sideline. It was poorly thrown and would have at best been incomplete if Williams didn't fall.

Even Herbstreit commented that the pass would have been picked off regardless of the slip.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benjamin Allbright wrote:
I took a 60 throw random sampling of DeShaun Watson throws (no screens, swing passes) and tested velocity by framerate.

Avg was 53mph.

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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 25936
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still waiting for evidence on the undraftable arm. When are we going to see that irrefutable proof? Or do you want to admit now it was hyperbole and that your just looking for any excuse to be skeptical?

The last part is fine. The rest was just pure BS.

Allbright has Watson as Alex Smith and he really doesnt like this class. I think that's a pretty good comparison for someone who isnt high on anyone here.
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G08


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/-Z1fQPpUMMQ?t=3

That's 30 yards on a rope (40 yards in the air) as a true freshman. Freaking DIME, put it right on the defenders left ear hole.

https://youtu.be/-Z1fQPpUMMQ?t=86

That's 46 yards in the air, getting crushed, and he drops it in a bucket.


etc etc etc
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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