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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32060
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a really fast 40 yard time means nothing in terms of NFL success. Here were the WR's with the fastest times ever before Ross:

Rondel Menendez
Jerome Mathis
Dri Archer
Marquise Goodwin
Jacoby Ford
JJ Nelson
Yamon Figurs
Darius Heyward-Bey

Ross is really fast and has pretty good hands (better hands than most of the guys above) but he needs a lot of work to become an elite NFL WR. He plays very soft, so he will need to get free releases - probably schemed into them. He's not a polished route runner underneath, often rounding his routes or losing position to the defender. He can be explosive in the open field but also has terrible balance. For as many big plays as he had, he blew a bunch of others by stumbling/falling over after making a catch, rather than catching in stride and making a quick cut.

I think the TY Hilton comparison is a good one for Ross's upside. He can be a big play/gamebreaking type WR but his lack of physicality, lack of polish on the short stuff and his issues staying on his feet will prevent him from being a truly elite guy. And that is assuming he can stay healthy, which I'm skeptical of.
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justin_perkins


Joined: 31 Mar 2014
Posts: 929
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypothetical question.

Let's say that Cleveland trades us #12 in some sort of Jimmy deal. If Leonard Fournette is there, does Bill take him?

Also, thoughts on Daeshon Hall from TAMU? Drawing some comparisons to Chandler Jones
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justin_perkins wrote:
Hypothetical question.

Let's say that Cleveland trades us #12 in some sort of Jimmy deal. If Leonard Fournette is there, does Bill take him?

Also, thoughts on Daeshon Hall from TAMU? Drawing some comparisons to Chandler Jones


I don't think so because that would mean guys like Howard TE, Thomas DE. Barnett De, Charlton DE would all be there and are a bigger need. If we draft at 12 and OJ Howard and Solomon Thomas are on the board I think we grab one of those guys. Otherwise a TE later in the draft makes a lot of sense as this is such a deep TE class.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 11934
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Having a really fast 40 yard time means nothing in terms of NFL success. Here were the WR's with the fastest times ever before Ross:

Rondel Menendez
Jerome Mathis
Dri Archer
Marquise Goodwin
Jacoby Ford
JJ Nelson
Yamon Figurs
Darius Heyward-Bey

Ross is really fast and has pretty good hands (better hands than most of the guys above) but he needs a lot of work to become an elite NFL WR. He plays very soft, so he will need to get free releases - probably schemed into them. He's not a polished route runner underneath, often rounding his routes or losing position to the defender. He can be explosive in the open field but also has terrible balance. For as many big plays as he had, he blew a bunch of others by stumbling/falling over after making a catch, rather than catching in stride and making a quick cut.

I think the TY Hilton comparison is a good one for Ross's upside. He can be a big play/gamebreaking type WR but his lack of physicality, lack of polish on the short stuff and his issues staying on his feet will prevent him from being a truly elite guy. And that is assuming he can stay healthy, which I'm skeptical of.


Yeah, I think the health is the biggest concern with him. Two knee surgeries are a problem.

Agreed that not all fast players make good deep threats (Darius Heyward-Bey is a great example) and there are other knocks with him. But Ross has shown that he can separate downfield in college and it's almost scary how easily that came to him at times. The threat of someone who can blow the top of a defense does bring other benefits in terms of the stress it puts on a defense, even if that player is not always able to benefit from it.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32060
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Having a really fast 40 yard time means nothing in terms of NFL success. Here were the WR's with the fastest times ever before Ross:

Rondel Menendez
Jerome Mathis
Dri Archer
Marquise Goodwin
Jacoby Ford
JJ Nelson
Yamon Figurs
Darius Heyward-Bey

Ross is really fast and has pretty good hands (better hands than most of the guys above) but he needs a lot of work to become an elite NFL WR. He plays very soft, so he will need to get free releases - probably schemed into them. He's not a polished route runner underneath, often rounding his routes or losing position to the defender. He can be explosive in the open field but also has terrible balance. For as many big plays as he had, he blew a bunch of others by stumbling/falling over after making a catch, rather than catching in stride and making a quick cut.

I think the TY Hilton comparison is a good one for Ross's upside. He can be a big play/gamebreaking type WR but his lack of physicality, lack of polish on the short stuff and his issues staying on his feet will prevent him from being a truly elite guy. And that is assuming he can stay healthy, which I'm skeptical of.


Yeah, I think the health is the biggest concern with him. Two knee surgeries are a problem.

Agreed that not all fast players make good deep threats (Darius Heyward-Bey is a great example) and there are other knocks with him. But Ross has shown that he can separate downfield in college and it's almost scary how easily that came to him at times. The threat of someone who can blow the top of a defense does bring other benefits in terms of the stress it puts on a defense, even if that player is not always able to benefit from it.


It's a lot easier to separate in college with pure speed than in the pros. I think he could be, like Hilton, a guy who puts up big numbers but good coaches will be able to shut him down if he is the #1 option.

If he goes to a team where he can be a complementary piece, rather than the #1 option, he will have a much better chance at success.
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question, two guys I think we could get on the cheap that could help. They are a bit long in the tooth but IMO still got some game. How would you all feel about:
Nick Mangold C:

and

Andrew Whitworth T
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32060
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Quick question, two guys I think we could get on the cheap that could help. They are a bit long in the tooth but IMO still got some game. How would you all feel about:
Nick Mangold C:

and

Andrew Whitworth T


Whitworth makes no sense, can't see him taking a backup role.

Mangold is unlikely, I think the Pats like Andrews too much to replace him with a short term upgrade
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justin_perkins


Joined: 31 Mar 2014
Posts: 929
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Quick question, two guys I think we could get on the cheap that could help. They are a bit long in the tooth but IMO still got some game. How would you all feel about:
Nick Mangold C:

and

Andrew Whitworth T
\

Not interested in Mangold. I agree an upgrade at center could be had, but I think we go with youth on that route. JMO.

Whitworth is not a good idea. Yes, he'd help, but I can't envision him signing anything other than a one year deal. Two is really pushing it. And we have Solder who is going to want a ton of $$, paying FA's only delays the inevitable (roster holes) so I think the draft would once again be the best route.

Russell Okung would probably have a smaller APY, and it would probably be incentive based (if he does his dealing this year, we may get on the hook for no guaranteed money Laughing ), so I think I'd prefer him over Whitworth. Apart from Matt Paradis, Denver has no other decent OL and the QB play was mediocre. Factor that in with a poor running game, and I can't totally be convinced Okung will continue to trend downward. Off year.

If we looked to trade, I also think youth is on our radar. Le'Raven Clark and Shon Coleman are two younger guys I could see Bill take a liking to. They could potentially work as a swing tackle, and we'll see what they've got when Nate Solder's contract runs out next season?
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Quick question, two guys I think we could get on the cheap that could help. They are a bit long in the tooth but IMO still got some game. How would you all feel about:
Nick Mangold C:

and

Andrew Whitworth T


Whitworth makes no sense, can't see him taking a backup role.

Mangold is unlikely, I think the Pats like Andrews too much to replace him with a short term upgrade


I figured cutting Vollmer may add to the need and he is on the end of his career and may want a shot at a ring. I would like Mangold I feel he is a better center than Andrews but that may be based on years exp vs skill. Andrews is more seasoned now with one year under Scar but in case of injury it makes some sense. And I guess it all depends on dollar amounts/
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keysersoze3421


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Posts: 34414
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mangold is a minor upgrade on Andrews in his current state. If Mangold were to move to RG, it might be a consideration.
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justin_perkins


Joined: 31 Mar 2014
Posts: 929
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
Mangold is a minor upgrade on Andrews in his current state. If Mangold were to move to RG, it might be a consideration.



With the growth Shaq Mason showed, hopefully they wouldn't stunt his development in favor of signing and moving a full time center to play G over him
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justin_perkins wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
Mangold is a minor upgrade on Andrews in his current state. If Mangold were to move to RG, it might be a consideration.



With the growth Shaq Mason showed, hopefully they wouldn't stunt his development in favor of signing and moving a full time center to play G over him


If the team doesn't believe in Mason as the future at G, it's a possibility, albeit a remote one.
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m haynes


Joined: 29 Jan 2011
Posts: 1625
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
justin_perkins wrote:
Hypothetical question.

Let's say that Cleveland trades us #12 in some sort of Jimmy deal. If Leonard Fournette is there, does Bill take him?

Also, thoughts on Daeshon Hall from TAMU? Drawing some comparisons to Chandler Jones


I don't think so because that would mean guys like Howard TE, Thomas DE. Barnett De, Charlton DE would all be there and are a bigger need. If we draft at 12 and OJ Howard and Solomon Thomas are on the board I think we grab one of those guys. Otherwise a TE later in the draft makes a lot of sense as this is such a deep TE class.
Solomon Thomas Great player however does he fit the Pats. He rather small at 6'3, 273 lbs.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/3/3/14790452/nfl-execs-solomon-thomas-may-not-be-worth-top-10-pick

Base on this article there are questions.
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justin_perkins wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
Mangold is a minor upgrade on Andrews in his current state. If Mangold were to move to RG, it might be a consideration.



With the growth Shaq Mason showed, hopefully they wouldn't stunt his development in favor of signing and moving a full time center to play G over him


Mason still can't pass block he could always run block hell that's why they took him, so I am unsure what real growth there was. Now Andrews can also play guard
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1391
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m haynes wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
justin_perkins wrote:
Hypothetical question.

Let's say that Cleveland trades us #12 in some sort of Jimmy deal. If Leonard Fournette is there, does Bill take him?

Also, thoughts on Daeshon Hall from TAMU? Drawing some comparisons to Chandler Jones


I don't think so because that would mean guys like Howard TE, Thomas DE. Barnett De, Charlton DE would all be there and are a bigger need. If we draft at 12 and OJ Howard and Solomon Thomas are on the board I think we grab one of those guys. Otherwise a TE later in the draft makes a lot of sense as this is such a deep TE class.
Solomon Thomas Great player however does he fit the Pats. He rather small at 6'3, 273 lbs.

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/3/3/14790452/nfl-execs-solomon-thomas-may-not-be-worth-top-10-pick

Base on this article there are questions.


Mehh not to worried about 2 or 4 inches of height he is good and we need a DE or TE over RB IMO.
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