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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: the "He GottaGo" thread Reply with quote

this is the opposite to my "MUST stay" thread. There are so many useless clowns on our roster that I don't even know where to begin.
there are also some guys we haven't seen enough of to render a fail assessment.

I also am aware that some of these guys are under contract and may not be economically sound to cut cap-wise.

but here we go...

Antione Bethea
this guy's play has deteriorated week after week after week. I often see him getting toasted by tight ends and backs out of the backfield. its time for Tartt to go ahead and be the starting SS.

Mike Davis
this kid has no vision, questionable hands, and lacks NFL level talent, He has now had plenty of chances to show what he could do to no avail. cut him and sign Dujuan Harris to his spot with an extension.

Vance Mcdonald
yes I know, he just signed a 5 year extension, (One last "eff you" from Baalke) some may fervently disagree with me, he is far from deserving of the money he is getting because he is far too inconsistent and often disappears in games. I know I'm just peeing in the wind on this one BECAUSE of his extension, but I feel like we could get on without this dude
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the first two, and will defer to the new GM on the third. I don't think it's crazy. He doesn't deserve that contract and if you want to get away from it, this is the year. On the other hand, there are a lot of holes on this team, so maybe you say we know that position needs upgraded, but there are other spots we need to focus on this offseason, it's a multi-year rebuild...Let's see what the coach gets out of him. Throw money at a few free agents, and focus on long-term pieces in the draft.
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 3147
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
I agree with the first two, and will defer to the new GM on the third. I don't think it's crazy. He doesn't deserve that contract and if you want to get away from it, this is the year. On the other hand, there are a lot of holes on this team, so maybe you say we know that position needs upgraded, but there are other spots we need to focus on this offseason, it's a multi-year rebuild...Let's see what the coach gets out of him. Throw money at a few free agents, and focus on long-term pieces in the draft.



agreed,
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: the "He GottaGo" thread Reply with quote

Pandomonium wrote:
this is the opposite to my "MUST stay" thread. There are so many useless clowns on our roster that I don't even know where to begin.
there are also some guys we haven't seen enough of to render a fail assessment.

I also am aware that some of these guys are under contract and may not be economically sound to cut cap-wise.

but here we go...

Antione Bethea
this guy's play has deteriorated week after week after week. I often see him getting toasted by tight ends and backs out of the backfield. its time for Tartt to go ahead and be the starting SS.

Mike Davis
this kid has no vision, questionable hands, and lacks NFL level talent, He has now had plenty of chances to show what he could do to no avail. cut him and sign Dujuan Harris to his spot with an extension.

Vance Mcdonald
yes I know, he just signed a 5 year extension, (One last "eff you" from Baalke) some may fervently disagree with me, he is far from deserving of the money he is getting because he is far too inconsistent and often disappears in games. I know I'm just peeing in the wind on this one BECAUSE of his extension, but I feel like we could get on without this dude


I agree with the first two. I actually think McDonald is OK. He's probably ot worth what we pay him, but he can be a good second TE and fill in if our number one TE gets hurt. Carradine seems destined for the scrap heap for sure. I see nothing in Eli Harold that would make me want to keep him either.
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: the "He GottaGo" thread Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
this is the opposite to my "MUST stay" thread. There are so many useless clowns on our roster that I don't even know where to begin.
there are also some guys we haven't seen enough of to render a fail assessment.

I also am aware that some of these guys are under contract and may not be economically sound to cut cap-wise.

but here we go...

Antione Bethea
this guy's play has deteriorated week after week after week. I often see him getting toasted by tight ends and backs out of the backfield. its time for Tartt to go ahead and be the starting SS.

Mike Davis
this kid has no vision, questionable hands, and lacks NFL level talent, He has now had plenty of chances to show what he could do to no avail. cut him and sign Dujuan Harris to his spot with an extension.

Vance Mcdonald
yes I know, he just signed a 5 year extension, (One last "eff you" from Baalke) some may fervently disagree with me, he is far from deserving of the money he is getting because he is far too inconsistent and often disappears in games. I know I'm just peeing in the wind on this one BECAUSE of his extension, but I feel like we could get on without this dude


I agree with the first two. I actually think McDonald is OK. He's probably ot worth what we pay him, but he can be a good second TE and fill in if our number one TE gets hurt. Carradine seems destined for the scrap heap for sure. I see nothing in Eli Harold that would make me want to keep him either.


I'm willing to wait on Harold at least another year before the plug is pulled.
Carradine you're absolutely right about. the last of the Baalke ACL failures.

they are expecting mcdonald to be the number one TE which i do not agree with.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: the "He GottaGo" thread Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:
this is the opposite to my "MUST stay" thread. There are so many useless clowns on our roster that I don't even know where to begin.
there are also some guys we haven't seen enough of to render a fail assessment.

I also am aware that some of these guys are under contract and may not be economically sound to cut cap-wise.

but here we go...

Antione Bethea
this guy's play has deteriorated week after week after week. I often see him getting toasted by tight ends and backs out of the backfield. its time for Tartt to go ahead and be the starting SS.

Mike Davis
this kid has no vision, questionable hands, and lacks NFL level talent, He has now had plenty of chances to show what he could do to no avail. cut him and sign Dujuan Harris to his spot with an extension.

Vance Mcdonald
yes I know, he just signed a 5 year extension, (One last "eff you" from Baalke) some may fervently disagree with me, he is far from deserving of the money he is getting because he is far too inconsistent and often disappears in games. I know I'm just peeing in the wind on this one BECAUSE of his extension, but I feel like we could get on without this dude


I agree with the first two. I actually think McDonald is OK. He's probably ot worth what we pay him, but he can be a good second TE and fill in if our number one TE gets hurt. Carradine seems destined for the scrap heap for sure. I see nothing in Eli Harold that would make me want to keep him either.


I'd second that, but go one further as I don't see anyone on our team at the OLB position in our 3-4 worth keeping. Even Lynch seems like a pudgy, unenthused rotational player at best. Would really love to see two OLBs drafted and one signed via FA. Say Derek Barnett, Vince Biegel and Melvin Ingram
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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Pandomonium


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


while a very good case can be made for some of your list, I think you're making statements out of emotion and not logic man.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: the "He GottaGo" thread Reply with quote

Pandomonium wrote:

I'm willing to wait on Harold at least another year before the plug is pulled.
Carradine you're absolutely right about. the last of the Baalke ACL failures.

they are expecting mcdonald to be the number one TE which i do not agree with.


Harold is young and could maybe improve. That's the best I can say about him. He played all year and startted most of the games and had 3 sacks and 23 tackles. Those numbers have got to be among the worst in the entire league for anyone that played as many minutes as he did. If he showed exceptional skills and was just unlucky enough not to be finishing plays then OK, let him develop some more. But I see nothing in him. Sure keep him for a while as a backup and see if he has some miraculous late development in him. But I'm with whoever said we should be trying to stock up with edge rushers this year.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: the "He GottaGo" thread Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:

I'm willing to wait on Harold at least another year before the plug is pulled.
Carradine you're absolutely right about. the last of the Baalke ACL failures.

they are expecting mcdonald to be the number one TE which i do not agree with.


Harold is young and could maybe improve. That's the best I can say about him. He played all year and startted most of the games and had 3 sacks and 23 tackles. Those numbers have got to be among the worst in the entire league for anyone that played as many minutes as he did. If he showed exceptional skills and was just unlucky enough not to be finishing plays then OK, let him develop some more. But I see nothing in him. Sure keep him for a while as a backup and see if he has some miraculous late development in him. But I'm with whoever said we should be trying to stock up with edge rushers this year.



I think it's pointless to be discussing a guy like Harold's release at this point. He still has two years left on his rookie deal, at 800k and 900k. It makes no sense to cut him in january, february or even march. If he's cut, it will be in august when he's beaten for a roster spot in training camp. If he's not beaten, then he's inexpensive and it will be a sad statement on our future GM's ability to find defensive talent. But if we're talking about cuts that should be made during the offseason for whatever reason, I don't think this is one. Personally, I'd cut Vance as a way to say "F you" to Baalke, but the dead money would be larger than the cap hit of keeping him, so it would be a stupid "F you". I'd cut Brooks, and for the first time in years, it wouldn't be because of attitude or performance. Just because of age and cap hit. I don't know... I'd trade Kap to the Browns to switch #1 and #2? I'd let the HC decide whether he valued Bethea's leadership. I know he's getting older and less effective, and I'd replace him right away if we were on a superbowl run, but since we're not, maybe his value as a mentor in the secondary offsets his diminishing skills. Tank is gone. Wilhoite better be gone, at this point. Other than that, we don't really have expensive players, and we have tons of cap room.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: the "He GottaGo" thread Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Pandomonium wrote:

I'm willing to wait on Harold at least another year before the plug is pulled.
Carradine you're absolutely right about. the last of the Baalke ACL failures.

they are expecting mcdonald to be the number one TE which i do not agree with.


Harold is young and could maybe improve. That's the best I can say about him. He played all year and startted most of the games and had 3 sacks and 23 tackles. Those numbers have got to be among the worst in the entire league for anyone that played as many minutes as he did. If he showed exceptional skills and was just unlucky enough not to be finishing plays then OK, let him develop some more. But I see nothing in him. Sure keep him for a while as a backup and see if he has some miraculous late development in him. But I'm with whoever said we should be trying to stock up with edge rushers this year.



I think it's pointless to be discussing a guy like Harold's release at this point. He still has two years left on his rookie deal, at 800k and 900k. It makes no sense to cut him in january, february or even march. If he's cut, it will be in august when he's beaten for a roster spot in training camp. If he's not beaten, then he's inexpensive and it will be a sad statement on our future GM's ability to find defensive talent. But if we're talking about cuts that should be made during the offseason for whatever reason, I don't think this is one. Personally, I'd cut Vance as a way to say "F you" to Baalke, but the dead money would be larger than the cap hit of keeping him, so it would be a stupid "F you". I'd cut Brooks, and for the first time in years, it wouldn't be because of attitude or performance. Just because of age and cap hit. I don't know... I'd trade Kap to the Browns to switch #1 and #2? I'd let the HC decide whether he valued Bethea's leadership. I know he's getting older and less effective, and I'd replace him right away if we were on a superbowl run, but since we're not, maybe his value as a mentor in the secondary offsets his diminishing skills. Tank is gone. Wilhoite better be gone, at this point. Other than that, we don't really have expensive players, and we have tons of cap room.


This is pretty much my view point, I see no reason to cut anyone now from our team. They are relatively inexpensive not that we need to worry about money anyways. Let the new GM and HC attempt to bring in "their" FAs, bring in their rookie class and UDFAs and make the cuts from there. I will say for McDonald finally showing a little talent this year it seems more people despise him now more than ever. His contract is way over paid but let's be honest, we are going to have over $90 million in cap space and aren't going to be able to bring in enough FAs to start worrying about where our money is being spent. I'm not saying ignore the position in the draft cause we are set, im just saying the contract doesn't hurt us really, and he's a decent TE for the time being. If being fair with our current TE depth I'm pretty certain Celek had far more drops this year than McDonald. Would still like to see a TE added in the draft however being a very deep TE group coming out and comparing better drop numbers isn't really what I want to be doing with our TEs and I don't see Bell becoming anything ever.
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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John232


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.



The reason you don't cut guys like Brock is because veterans matter. These past two seasons have shown that we don't' just lack leadership, we lack veteran savvy. That's not saying that we keep a vet for the sake of keeping a vet. But unless we have a real solution for a third/nickel corner (assuming Robinson would move outside), there's no point in cutting him. Now I will grant you that having guys like Redmond come back +Reaser showing up this year wouldn't make it the worst decision to cut Brock, but I guess my point is we should not be cutting guys just the sake of it.

The hardest immediate task for any GM or Coach coming in is going to be assessing this current roster and who should stay/go.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brock played pretty good this season, no need to get rid of him. We are not in cap hell where we have to release veterans like him.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John232 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Kaep, Gabbert, DaJuan Harris, Mike Davis, Celek and Bell, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Hodges, whoever #93 is, Bethea, Brock, Donate Johnson, Reaser, Pinion.

End thread


Nope. I have zero emotion in me at this point when it comes to this team. Every single player I listed above are guys that need to go.

I don't think I need to explain Kaep, Gabbert, Jerrod-Eddie, Wilhoite, Bethea or Davis

Harris fumbles too much and is nothing more than a retread.

Celek drops too many balls and Bell is barely ever on the field.

Hodges lacks instinct and over plays the ball all the time.

Brock is just ok. Why keep him around?

Johnson has not developed, thought he had a good look last year and he regressed into this season.

Reaser barely sees the field and when he does is relatively ineffective.

Pinion is a bust. He had a terrible second half.



The reason you don't cut guys like Brock is because veterans matter. These past two seasons have shown that we don't' just lack leadership, we lack veteran savvy. That's not saying that we keep a vet for the sake of keeping a vet. But unless we have a real solution for a third/nickel corner (assuming Robinson would move outside), there's no point in cutting him. Now I will grant you that having guys like Redmond come back +Reaser showing up this year wouldn't make it the worst decision to cut Brock, but I guess my point is we should not be cutting guys just the sake of it.

The hardest immediate task for any GM or Coach coming in is going to be assessing this current roster and who should stay/go.



Isn't next year Brock's last year of contract too? Let him play it out, let him leave, and he'll figure into the compensation pick formula. A potential 7th rounder isn't much, but why not... let's hold on to these bad players. Chances are, they'll make the team, since we're a bad team. And chances are, they might get signed by other teams as free agents. No need to cut them right away just for the sake of cleaning house. We'll cut them when and if we need roster spots, that's all.
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