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2017 Offseason: Rejected by a hobo, we hire John Lynch as GM
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 962
Location: Sacramento, CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid post Rico and thank you for the in depth look of what appears to be our top 3, well done. And if your intentions were to sell me on McDaniels and Garoppolo I'm sold, I'll take seconds of that helping. Haven't gotten excited about niner football like this since the Harbaugh hire. Hopefully the results can be as fruitful as they were then, understandably over due time
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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Location: Modesto,CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uncle_Rico wrote:
Jed, while having done a terrible job the last several years, has done a good job of putting us in a position to undergo a legitimate culture change by firing both Baalke and Chip.

He is dead on that the relationship between GM and coach is the most important thing going forward. But what hasn't been publicly stated, that is almost as important, is the relationship between our HC and QB going forward.

Consistently good franchises (Pats, Steelers, Packers) have the GM, coach, and QB completely in sync and are contenders year in, year out.

Which is the reason I suspect we are going after offensive minded coaches who are best suited to develop and maintain success with one QB.

From what I gather, these are the 3 legitimate candidates left:

Sean McVay
Hot coaching name. Done a great job as OC in Washington these last two years. Kirk Cousins has made tremendous strides as a player and is in line for a huge contract going forward.

With that said, I have a hard time separating Jay Gruden's offensive impact from McVay's.

McVay turns 31 this month and has just 2 years of being OC under his belt. The age doesn't bother me as much of the lack of experience.

In an organization that already has strong management, I think he'd be a better candidate. But for a 31 year old with 2 years of OC experience, to be part of a full scale culture change seems like a lot to ask.

I think his biggest selling point is that there's actually a small chance Kirk Cousins is available. In which case he could start in a new place with a QB who has two years in his system already. However, that is a highly unlikely scenario.

Overall, McVay strikes me as a guy who goes through a round of interviews this year and gets a HC job in the next year or two. If he struggles with that then he goes back to OC before becoming a great HC candidate again. He's essentially McDaniels from 7 years ago.

Kyle Shanahan

Shanahan was a quarterback's coach in 2007, and since has been an OC for the last 8 years. He's had his ups and downs with jobs, but what I like best is he took Matt Ryan to the next level. The Youtube video I posted shows the type of relationship he's learned to develop with his QB's and that is one of the most vital traits of our next HC.

The issue I have with young Shanny is that he won't have Matt Ryan. He's gonna have to start from scratch with a QB, either through the draft or free agency. That QB is going to take time to learn his system. There is no easy QB to pair with Shanahan.

He also has never been a HC before, and while 8 years of being OC is fantastic preparation for that, I feel coaches don't fully understand what it means to be a HC until they've done it. And oftentimes they fail in their first stint because of that. It is no surprise that many successful coaches have been fired before.

With that being said I think he is a great candidate and clearly top 2 with McDaniels.

Josh McDaniels

McDaniels was a QB coach for the Patriots in 04-05, then OC from 06-08, then Denver's HC from 09-10, then the Rams OC in 11, then back to the Pats OC/QB's coach from 12-now.

Depending on how you look at his HC stint, McDaniels arguably has the best resume of the group. I look at his failure in Denver as a positive. No better way to find out your flaws than fail the way he did. Whether or not he can make adjustments in his next HC job is the real question.

Brady notwithstanding, McDaniels did a good job with Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton, and in their brief stints both Garapollo and Brissett.

The thing that stands out to me above all else is there being a chance to pair Garapollo with McDaniels.

Garapollo has had limited real game experience so far. Starting twice this season, throwing for 500 yards, 4 TD's, 0 INT's. I also watched those games and he certainly passed the eye test for me.

While that is little to go off of it is more than any draft prospect and McDaniels has seen the kid every day in practice for his whole NFL career.

The value of a QB who is going into his 4th year in a system is astronomical. Having your most important position knowing how everything works before everyone else can give him a leg up as a leader in the locker room and boost his confidence.

Any GM that would come in with McDaniels would undoubtedly consult him on the value of Garapollo. And while most fans would be hesitant to give up too much, he is significantly more valuable to a Josh McDaniels team than any other one and I'd be willing to give up some good draft picks for that. Easily our 2nd and 4th, and a little more if necessary.

McDaniels gives us the best chance at GM, HC, QB synergy immediately. Garapollo would grow with the team as we acquire more talent through the draft and free agency. But our foundation would be built.

If McDaniels does not advise us to go after Jimmy G, then to me he's on the same level as Shanahan. But having a young player available who would be going into his 4th year in the system would provide a great foundation for this franchise.


Great post.....

On McVay, I will add that he was an OC with Jay Gruden in the USFL or some now defunct league.....Obviously not the NFL, but it should stand for something I guess. What I have read on him is that he has been breaking down film and coverages for quite some time. They said when he was in college he was game planning. He learned under John Gruden and then followed with Jay as well. Everything I have read on him made me really like him and of course, there is always that chance that the Redskins screw the pooch and let Cousins walk. Slim, but it is there.

On McDaniels, he has been my pick from the start. I like Shanahan too, but I'm just not sure about the staff he can build and then there is the fact that there is no QB here for him to work with. Is it Trubisky? Is it Watson? Is it a vet they bring in off the street? With McDaniels it just feels more plug and play, more turn key.

Either way it is exciting and I still have a hard time not wanting to go with the youth movement of Elliot Wolf and McVay.

Time will tell.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ANyone interested in Ryan as DC if he's willing to go back to being a DC?
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
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Location: Sacramento, CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
ANyone interested in Ryan and DC if he's willing to go back to being a DC?


I might be of the select few who like Ryan. I would be all for having him be our DC and letting him solely focus on just that. Especially if McDaniels or Shannahan is our HC we might need a weird, outgoing personality who the players can connect with. I'm a fan of his work as a DC. Bring him and Rob in to be the aggressive, boisterous defense with our young, mastermind offensive HC. I think adding personality to this team and franchise could be a good thing especially with adding FAs.
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NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
ANyone interested in Ryan and DC if he's willing to go back to being a DC?


I might be of the select few who like Ryan. I would be all for having him be our DC and letting him solely focus on just that. Especially if McDaniels or Shannahan is our HC we might need a weird, outgoing personality who the players can connect with. I'm a fan of his work as a DC. Bring him and Rob in to be the aggressive, boisterous defense with our young, mastermind offensive HC. I think adding personality to this team and franchise could be a good thing especially with adding FAs.


+1. I think at this point of their careers(ryan brothers) they are probably better off as positional coaches/DCs. So I wouldn't mind. like you say, players love to play for rex.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the way I've been looking at it. In over his head as HC, but a really sound and even creative defensive coach. Would be nice to pair that with a sound and creative offensive approach. If we're re-building we might as well make the team more interesting to watch.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbrown wrote:
AustrianNiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
Now I'm worried about Riddick. One of the things we desperately need is a guy that is good at evaluating personnel. I just read that he loved AJ Jenkins, that he said Thomas and Martin were two of his favorite o-line guys in that draft, and that he thought that Kap had a much higher ceiling than Smith because he had a great head for the game and could absorb more of the offense thatn SMith (who in their right mind ever thought Kap had a better head for the QB position than Smith?) and that he liked how he looked downfield when under pressure rather just running (just running has been a problem of Kap's since the day he started playing in the NFL). Man, put all of those comments together and I wonder about his personnel evaluation skills. A GM has to have a vision and a plan for achieving that vision, but most all he has to pick good players. All the plans in the world are useless if the guys he picks can't execute them.


Pretty sure every GM has had his blunders, Riddick is the only one we actually know what he thinks from time to time, we basically know nothing about the other guys though. Of course those things about Jenkins an the o-liner don't look good but I'm pretty sure he was not the only one who felt like that.

Point is, for me, it doesn't change my stance on Riddick compared to the other candidates.


Quote:
Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
The 49ers have formally requested to interview Cards exec Terry McDonough for their GM spot, I'm told. @MaioccoCSN reported this was likely.


I agree with this, keep in Mind that Kaps wonderlick score is nearly equal to smiths, and kap ceiling to me has been higher than smiths. Also remember riddick was also extremely high on richard sherman, earl thomas and he was the one who made me a believer on OBJ being the best wr in that draft.


Wonderlic score aside, Kap was still a mystery as it pertained to in-game smarts and situational awareness. Smith had always been a heady player so I really wouldn't understand that train of thought. I could understand if he said Kap would be more clutch or more capable to win a game with his arm....anything other than him being more intelligent on the field.

I can give him credit for Sherman. But not for OBJ nor Thomas. Both those guys were highly coveted by alot of fans. I was on another board at the time and remember some Niner fans being mad@Baalke for trading up selecting Davis instead of staying put and taking Thomas. And a bunch of Niner fans, including myself said OBJ was the best WR in that class. Speaking for myself, I was really on the OBJ bandwagon. So its not like he hit on a couple unheralded prospects there.

But like I've alluded to before, if Riddick is the best we can do, I would be disappointed. I would hope for the best but wouldn't hold my breath for him to turn this thing around.
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Fureys49ers


Joined: 31 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our defensive secondary is set up to play their defensive scheme too which typically has been press man with a lot of blitzing and the safeties playing over the top. Don't really want Reid or Bethea/Tartt paired up with anyone anyhow. Just need to get him some pass rushers, an immovable object at NT and some run stuffing, insinctual ILBs and we are good. Actually not too much to ask for if we go with Garrett/Barnett in the first and find an ILB and NT in the middle rounds.
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
ANyone interested in Ryan as DC if he's willing to go back to being a DC?


Nope. He's overated as a DC IMO. When he first got to the Jets, he had a great D but they started to decline as they started to lose key players. Inherited a very good Bills D and made it awful overnight. Got so bad Mario Williams called him out for it in the media. I'd love him as a positional coach but I doubt he drops that low on the totem pole. Its just like O'Neil's defense(O'Neil is a Ryan defensive disciple), except he's changed how they play the run so our rushing defense wouldn't be as abysmal as it was under O'Neil. I'm more in favor of guys who can fit their scheme around the personnel, not try to force their scheme on players who don't necessarily fit the scheme. Ryan seems to be the latter.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He gets a lot of attention and hype I'll give you that but he did lead solid defenses for many years with the Ravens as well as his first 2 years with the Jets. After that with the Jets I think he began to burn out and with his anemic offense and always having to play lights out defense to win a game he appeared to struggle. I'll give you he messed up Buffalo's defense prettt good considering they were great the year before, I think his ego kind of got in the way of common sense there. I think I'm a reduced role to just DC he could regain some of the reasons people believed him to be a good DC.
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually pulling for McVay. Shanahan scares the heck out of me, as he's been painted as a prick one too many times. McDaniels I would be all for but his offensive scheme makes me wonder if we'll have problems finding competent skill players on the outside. But I do love his versatility as a play-caller though.

I really want Wolf so I guess I'm looking at it as who's the best guy to be paired with him and I just think that's McVay. Wolf has been scouting/evaluating guys who fit the WCO since he started in football really and McVay is big WCO guy so I think they just have the better fit from a schematic perspective.
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Fureys49ers


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
I'm actually pulling for McVay. Shanahan scares the heck out of me, as he's been painted as a prick one too many times. McDaniels I would be all for but his offensive scheme makes me wonder if we'll have problems finding competent skill players on the outside. But I do love his versatility as a play-caller though.

I really want Wolf so I guess I'm looking at it as who's the best guy to be paired with him and I just think that's McVay. Wolf has been scouting/evaluating guys who fit the WCO since he started in football really and McVay is big WCO guy so I think they just have the better fit from a schematic perspective.


I'm leaning this way as well. Initially I wanted Shannahan and then McDaniels reason being because of the way McDaniels has been known to rub people the wrong away completely oblivious that it sounds like Shannahan is much in the same if not worse.

Plus I do like the pairing of WCO HC and GM, seems to fit too well. I wish York would get Wolf signed on already unless we truly are waiting until the Chiefs guy and talk, I thought someone said the Chiefs can only refuse while still playing.

What do people know about this guy?
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fureys49ers wrote:
He gets a lot of attention and hype I'll give you that but he did lead solid defenses for many years with the Ravens as well as his first 2 years with the Jets. After that with the Jets I think he began to burn out and with his anemic offense and always having to play lights out defense to win a game he appeared to struggle. I'll give you he messed up Buffalo's defense prettt good considering they were great the year before, I think his ego kind of got in the way of common sense there. I think I'm a reduced role to just DC he could regain some of the reasons people believed him to be a good DC.


Meh, I guess. But I really don't know how much credit I can give him for those Ravens defenses. Mike Nolan was the one that transitioned that defense from Marvin Lewis SB defense. Ryan himself said he changed very little from what Nolan was doing, as he was Nolan's D-Line coach the previous three seasons.

Perhaps one could argue that Rex focusing solely on defense could make for a really special DC. I just don't know at this point.
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PapaShogun


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does everyone seen to forget Josh McDaniels stint as OC in St.Louis? The Rams offense was doo doo. Not saying that means McDaniels will suck moving forward, but strangely that is never brought up. As if it never happened. Odd.
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Gore Whore 21


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PapaShogun wrote:
Why does everyone seen to forget Josh McDaniels stint as OC in St.Louis? The Rams offense was doo doo. Not saying that means McDaniels will suck moving forward, but strangely that is never brought up. As if it never happened. Odd.


Look at the team they had, they started a young Sam Bradford, A.J. Feely, and Kellen Clemons. The only real player they had was Steven Jackson. I'm not saying we have a better situation, but definitely something to keep in mind. I also think our defense is in a much better situation than theirs was back then. I'm not saying that we should disregard that season all together, but that was a BAD Rams team that didn't have much of anything going their way.
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