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yesweCAM


Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: General Offseason Talk Reply with quote

Since we have a general draft talk thread, I thought I would make a general offseason talk to discuss re-signing our own players, free agency, cuts, training camp, etc.

Out of the 15 free agents we have this offseason, who do you guys think we should re-sign and at what price? Just curious what others are thinking


Player (15) Pos. Age From To 2016 AAV Status

Charles Johnson DE 30 CAR TBD $3,000,000 UFA
Mike Remmers RT 27 CAR TBD $2,553,000 UFA
Ted Ginn Jr. WR 31 CAR TBD $2,100,000 UFA
Mario Addison DE 29 CAR TBD $1,280,000 UFA
Kawann Short DT 27 CAR TBD $1,157,584 UFA
Colin Jones FS 29 CAR TBD $927,500 UFA
Teddy Williams CB 28 CAR TBD $900,000 UFA
Michael Griffin FS 31 CAR TBD $885,000 UFA
Ryan Wendell C 30 CAR TBD $885,000 UFA
Chris Scott G 29 CAR TBD $840,000 UFA
Kyle Love DT 30 CAR TBD $760,000 UFA
Leonard Johnson CB 26 CAR TBD $760,000 UFA
Ben Jacobs ILB 28 CAR TBD $675,000 UFA
Brenton Bersin WR 26 CAR TBD $600,000 UFA
A.J. Klein ILB 25 CAR TBD $587,825 UFA
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: General Offseason Talk Reply with quote

Top FAs -
A.J. Klein ILB 25- UFA. Probably takes big money elsewhere. Otherwise, re-sign. Heck of a backup as we have seen.
Charles Johnson DE - I feel like his sun has set. Oft injured. He knows the team and has been a captian. If he can take a back seat and come on the cheap, like freeny, then sure.
Mike Remmers RT - Everything in my soal says to cut this man and then have him killed. But, he would be a good backup that knows every call.
Ted Ginn Jr. WR 31 - Keep. He will come cheap and seems to be one of Cams guy's each year.
Mario Addison DE - How much do you spend on a 3ed down pass rusher? Guy is close to a 10 sack year. But he is a situational guy. I think his sack total prices him out of his value for us. I'd like to see him stay but I doubt it.




The "eh" guys -
Colin Jones FS 29 Cheap/servicable STer
Teddy Williams CB 28 Cheap/servicable STer
Michael Griffin FS 31 - Cut
Ryan Wendell C 30 - Who?
Chris Scott G 29 - Knows every position on our line. And cheap.
Kyle Love DT 30 - Won't be resigned... unless it is in week 8.
Leonard Johnson CB 26 - Cheap, serviceable backup if needed.
Ben Jacobs ILB 28 - Cheap, knows the system. ST player. Bubble 53 guy.
Brenton Bersin WR 26 - I like the guy and he is cheap. He catches everything.

The whole thread -
Kawann Short DT 27 CAR TBD $1,157,584 UFA

This guy has been, and will be, the entire off-season discussion in regards to what we do with our own FAs. Heck, we will probably talk about him next season as a "we shoulda" guy.

TBH, I am mostly glad we are having this discussion now and not talking about the price we paid him last off-season. Dude's stock has fallen hard.

He is still a upper tier DT. He is still a guy that we would like to have back.

Ideally, I would like to see him and Star both locked up for the next 5 years. But I don't think we get that luxury.

I think Vernon Butler was drafted to be either his or Star's replacement and I think it is gonna simply boil down to discussions with both Star and KK this year. If I'm DG... I have contract talks with both and take the cheaper of the two on a 5 year contract. That is, unless they will both come in at a reasonable figure... some sub-10M/yr deal.

It is hard to ague for cap savings when DG has us 50M+ under the cap... but it never ceases to be an issue that must be considered.

What I would like - Have him back at a team-friendly 5yr/40M figure.

What I see happening - Him wanting 13-17M per year and becoming a comp pick in 2018.
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yesweCAM


Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no way KK takes 8mil a year type of deal. I would love it but it's not happening. If you look at the top tier DT's (Suh, McCoy, Dareus, Cox) and the deals they signed, they are averaging around 15-17m a year. With KK's stock taking a hit this year with him not being able to duplicate last year's numbers, I think we could get him around 12m - 14m a year.

If you look at our upcoming free agents in the next couple of years, these are the big guys - 2018 - Star, Benji, Turner, Ealy. 2019 - Khalil. Actually, Norwell is a RFA in 2017. I forgot him too.

What I'm trying to get at is, we have our core locked down (Cam, Luke, Olsen, TD, Khalil) for the next couple years. With our cap situation, 13m/year type of deal for KK is possible and still have money left over to sign other players long term and other free agents like Matt Khalil.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yesweCAM wrote:
There's no way KK takes 8mil a year type of deal. I would love it but it's not happening. If you look at the top tier DT's (Suh, McCoy, Dareus, Cox) and the deals they signed, they are averaging around 15-17m a year. With KK's stock taking a hit this year with him not being able to duplicate last year's numbers, I think we could get him around 12m - 14m a year.

If you look at our upcoming free agents in the next couple of years, these are the big guys - 2018 - Star, Benji, Turner, Ealy. 2019 - Khalil. Actually, Norwell is a RFA in 2017. I forgot him too.

What I'm trying to get at is, we have our core locked down (Cam, Luke, Olsen, TD, Khalil) for the next couple years. With our cap situation, 13m/year type of deal for KK is possible and still have money left over to sign other players long term and other free agents like Matt Khalil.


I agree 100% that KK takes 12+M (probably more like 14+M) to be retained.

That's why I see him walking. DG drafted his replacement last year and we started to see flashes from Butler towards the end of the year.

I don't think we have to "worry" about Kalil... I heard some oline teammate (or former... dunno) say that they didn't expect him to play more than another year or two.

KB... *sigh... I'd love to be thinking of him as deserving a big contract but I cannot. Dude just has not earned it in many of our eyes.

Star and Turner are going to be interesting. Thankfully, Turner plays an underpaid position. We've got to retain that guy. Star has played just well enough, but not too good, to possibly be an affordable long-term option.

I just don't think that KK is on this team next year. I'm betting it is a Josh Norman situation... We'd love to have you, but not at that price.
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FriendlyEnemy


Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have around 50mil in cap space this offseason, the most I can ever remember us having. At some point we need to actually spend that money to put talent on the field. We need to add talent on the lines as well as keep the talent we have. I'm hoping Gettleman opens up the checkbook this offseason with Short. We can't keep letting home-grown All-Pro guys leave and help other teams.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FriendlyEnemy wrote:
We have around 50mil in cap space this offseason, the most I can ever remember us having. At some point we need to actually spend that money to put talent on the field. We need to add talent on the lines as well as keep the talent we have. I'm hoping Gettleman opens up the checkbook this offseason with Short. We can't keep letting home-grown All-Pro guys leave and help other teams.


The 50M is a fluid number.

Still have to factor in:

1. DG likes keeping around 10-12M for signings during the season due to injury

2. We can make some cuts to free up more room (Jstew, Tolbert? maybe more)

3. We still have to sign rookies (I think we have 8 draft picks with the two 3eds)

4. We will have UDRFAs to sign

50M is great... heck, it's top of the NFL kinda space. But it is not unlimited. If you sign a 15M/5yr deal then you commit a significant % of the cap to one player for multiple years.

I'm not saying we won't... heck, I'm not saying we shouldn't... I'm saying that I doubt we will.

If we didn't draft Butler in 2016, my thoughts would be different.
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FriendlyEnemy


Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
FriendlyEnemy wrote:
We have around 50mil in cap space this offseason, the most I can ever remember us having. At some point we need to actually spend that money to put talent on the field. We need to add talent on the lines as well as keep the talent we have. I'm hoping Gettleman opens up the checkbook this offseason with Short. We can't keep letting home-grown All-Pro guys leave and help other teams.


The 50M is a fluid number.

Still have to factor in:

1. DG likes keeping around 10-12M for signings during the season due to injury

2. We can make some cuts to free up more room (Jstew, Tolbert? maybe more)

3. We still have to sign rookies (I think we have 8 draft picks with the two 3eds)

4. We will have UDRFAs to sign

50M is great... heck, it's top of the NFL kinda space. But it is not unlimited. If you sign a 15M/5yr deal then you commit a significant % of the cap to one player for multiple years.

I'm not saying we won't... heck, I'm not saying we shouldn't... I'm saying that I doubt we will.

If we didn't draft Butler in 2016, my thoughts would be different.


I don't think 10-12 mil is an accurate amount for in-season signings. Most of those types of players are getting 1 year, vet minimums. Saving that much is overkill.

We need 4-7 million to sign our rookies according to this website: http://overthecap.com/draft/.

My guess is that we will have $30 million in cap space. Of all our guys Short is a 100% must sign. Look, I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be a cap expert, but I do believe that we should be in a win now mode. We have a quarterback in his prime with a defense at its peak. We need to capitalize on the talent we have and put together a competative roster. Otherwise we are wasting the final years of Kalil and TD's careers, not to mention the prime of guys like Cam and Luke. We need to be more like successful franchises like Denver. Go out there and sign your guys and play to win. Money just sitting in the bank isn't doing us any good when we are losing games.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FriendlyEnemy wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
FriendlyEnemy wrote:
We have around 50mil in cap space this offseason, the most I can ever remember us having. At some point we need to actually spend that money to put talent on the field. We need to add talent on the lines as well as keep the talent we have. I'm hoping Gettleman opens up the checkbook this offseason with Short. We can't keep letting home-grown All-Pro guys leave and help other teams.


The 50M is a fluid number.

Still have to factor in:

1. DG likes keeping around 10-12M for signings during the season due to injury

2. We can make some cuts to free up more room (Jstew, Tolbert? maybe more)

3. We still have to sign rookies (I think we have 8 draft picks with the two 3eds)

4. We will have UDRFAs to sign

50M is great... heck, it's top of the NFL kinda space. But it is not unlimited. If you sign a 15M/5yr deal then you commit a significant % of the cap to one player for multiple years.

I'm not saying we won't... heck, I'm not saying we shouldn't... I'm saying that I doubt we will.

If we didn't draft Butler in 2016, my thoughts would be different.


I don't think 10-12 mil is an accurate amount for in-season signings. Most of those types of players are getting 1 year, vet minimums. Saving that much is overkill.

We need 4-7 million to sign our rookies according to this website: http://overthecap.com/draft/.

My guess is that we will have $30 million in cap space. Of all our guys Short is a 100% must sign. Look, I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be a cap expert, but I do believe that we should be in a win now mode. We have a quarterback in his prime with a defense at its peak. We need to capitalize on the talent we have and put together a competative roster. Otherwise we are wasting the final years of Kalil and TD's careers, not to mention the prime of guys like Cam and Luke. We need to be more like successful franchises like Denver. Go out there and sign your guys and play to win. Money just sitting in the bank isn't doing us any good when we are losing games.


Denver missed the playoffs this year and I don't think they could really be said to have re-signed their guys this past offseason.

We model ourselves after the Steelers and Pats... Both of which have been known to let guys walk.

DG is not interested in "win now". He is interested in putting a consistently competitive product on the field. The knee jerk reaction to that past sentence is "well, we were not competitive this year"... I think we were. We lost a lot of very close games... games we managed to pull out last year.

The reason?

not the secondary
not the lack of a pass rush
not KB

Injuries on the OL cost us this season. When Remmers is Playing LT and Turner RT then you know you are in trouble. Frankly, the discontinuity of the OL this year makes me surprised we were not worse.

Keep Short or not... it will not be the difference in us going to the SB next year.

I think that will be in the mind of DG. That this guy is gonna want 15M to play one position on a defense that has his replacement drafted. 15M that could go to tackles on the other side of the ball. KK's camp is gonna want to be paid on 2015 production. DG will offer 2016 figures.

Again, I would like to have him back. But it is a money thing.

15M pays either 1 guy or 3. If that is 15M for a guy like Luke... a guy who is consistently your #1 guy on defense... a potential all-time great (injury's permitting), then you do it. If it is Cam, a guy that has set numerous records, was MVP and plays an invaluable position... you do it. Short is 27 and had a great season last year. He showed flashes of that this year but was simply above average.

Paying Short does not guarantee us the playoffs next year. The only thing it guarantee's is that 15M/yr.
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faccda01


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a big offseason for DG. He really screwed the pooch last offseason in a big way. There were a lot of mistakes that he made that were easily avoidable (Don't cut Norman, get someone on the OL that isn't injury prone).

We need desperate help on the OL. We could also use major improvement at Safety, RB, and WR. All of these items can be addressed this year with the money we have.

My hopes are that we land a bigtime OL in either FA or via a trade. There aren't a lot of great OL prospects for where we pick this year, and we need immediate impact.

I'd like to get a RB (Fournette?) in round 1. If he isn't available, we go BPA on either OL/S/WR. DG can also do what he's done in the past and double down in consecutive rounds on a position (DT and CB in the past two years). This time I'd think OL would be the focus.

It will be an exciting offseason for sure. If we play our cards right, we should be back in the thick of things in 2017.
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FriendlyEnemy


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:


Denver missed the playoffs this year and I don't think they could really be said to have re-signed their guys this past offseason.


They lost a number of pieces from their defense to the Jags and Bears. They have basically two rookie quarterbacks that are keeping them back. If Elway makes a move on a vet QB (Rivers has been mentioned) then they will be right back in the thick of things

Quote:

We model ourselves after the Steelers and Pats... Both of which have been known to let guys walk.


These are also teams that make the necessary signings to stay competitive. Do you think the Steelers won't resign Bell in the offseason because he is going to command top dollar?

Quote:

DG is not interested in "win now". He is interested in putting a consistently competitive product on the field. The knee jerk reaction to that past sentence is "well, we were not competitive this year"... I think we were. We lost a lot of very close games... games we managed to pull out last year.

The reason?

not the secondary
not the lack of a pass rush
not KB



All of those things lost us games this season in some form or the other. Secondary/and terrible pass rush lost us games early on. KB's lack of effort caused us to stifle on offense all throughout the year.

And while I agree that we should strive to put out consistently competitive teams, we can't do that if we keep letting our talent leave.

Quote:

Injuries on the OL cost us this season. When Remmers is Playing LT and Turner RT then you know you are in trouble. Frankly, the discontinuity of the OL this year makes me surprised we were not worse.



Agreed

Quote:

Keep Short or not... it will not be the difference in us going to the SB next year.


Disagree. Our defense is contingent on the play of the front four. We need the front four to push the pocket and create pressure on the quarterback. Without that we are sending our linebackers to blitz and leaving our secondary exposed. Keeping short and getting some young blood at the DE positions will help us achieve that front four we had in 2015

Quote:

I think that will be in the mind of DG. That this guy is gonna want 15M to play one position on a defense that has his replacement drafted. 15M that could go to tackles on the other side of the ball. KK's camp is gonna want to be paid on 2015 production. DG will offer 2016 figures.

Again, I would like to have him back. But it is a money thing.

15M pays either 1 guy or 3. If that is 15M for a guy like Luke... a guy who is consistently your #1 guy on defense... a potential all-time great (injury's permitting), then you do it. If it is Cam, a guy that has set numerous records, was MVP and plays an invaluable position... you do it. Short is 27 and had a great season last year. He showed flashes of that this year but was simply above average.

Paying Short does not guarantee us the playoffs next year. The only thing it guarantee's is that 15M/yr.


Would I love to sign Short for cheap? Sure would. That would make anybody happy. I just don't see that happening. We need to seriously negotiate with him, but it can't be "take this or see the door". We need to actually compromise a deal, especially that now we have the cap space, and we need to keep that type of talent here in Carolina.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys,

Apparently the Bills are looking into Sean McDermott. I don't know much about him or the Panthers D. Was looking for any insight both good and bad. I heard he runs a variation of the 4-3 tampa 2. True?

Appreciate any info!
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
Hey guys,

Apparently the Bills are looking into Sean McDermott. I don't know much about him or the Panthers D. Was looking for any insight both good and bad. I heard he runs a variation of the 4-3 tampa 2. True?

Appreciate any info!


Yall would be lucky to get him.

We've been hiding him for years
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faccda01


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
Hey guys,

Apparently the Bills are looking into Sean McDermott. I don't know much about him or the Panthers D. Was looking for any insight both good and bad. I heard he runs a variation of the 4-3 tampa 2. True?

Appreciate any info!


He runs more of an aggressive 4-3. Both man and zone. This year has been more zone with the loss of Norman.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate the responses!

He interviewed yesterday and it sounds like it went really well.

So far he is my favorite candidate.
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Drics13


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I did this fantasy GM on Fanspeak, before you say it, its complete fantasy, more like Madden but it was fun. Cap hit I guess is the % off the salary i offered, i.e. Eric Berry was 10.5m, JPP was 9.5m, Short was 10.5m

SIGNED PLAYERS
Name Position Cap Hit
Ted Ginn WR 2,250,000
Mike Remmers OT 2,700,000
Kawann Short DL 5,775,000
AJ Klein LB 2,450,000
Kurt Coleman S 2,700,000
Charles Johnson EDGE 8,500,000
Teddy Williams CB 960,000
Eric Berry S 6,300,000
Jason Pierre-Paul EDGE 6,650,000
Riley Reiff OT 4,550,000

Draft:
8: R1P8 RB LEONARD FOURNETTE LSU
40: R2P8 CB ADOREE JACKSON USC
72: R3P8 OT ZACH BANNER USC
99: R3P35 TE DAVID NJOKU MIAMI
113: R4P8 WR MALACHI DUPRE LSU
153: R5P8 LB BEN BOULWARE CLEMSON
193: R6P8 G CALEB PETERSON NORTH CAROLINA
235: R7P14 WR RICKY SEALS-JONES TEXAS A&M

As unrealistic as it is, it would be sweet!
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