Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Draft QB Talk
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 64, 65, 66  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Chicago Bears
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6898
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
But, even if it is pure hindsight, it still doesn't remotely change the fact that Beasley is now a stud, and Kevin White is currently one of the largest busts in franchise history, until he can get on the field and prove otherwise. Pace may not be able to predict the future, but it is what he's being paid to do.

I couldn't disagree more.

Cade McNown was a bust. Mark Bradley was a bust. Jon Bostic was a bust. Those guys flat-out couldn't play the game at the pro level.

Kevin White had a clean medical and was pretty much a consensus top ten pick. This isn't like Jerry Angelo drafting Chris Williams when there were red flags popping up late in the game.

Say what you will about Pace, but I think most rational people have a hard time holding White's injuries against him.


I hold his rawness against him/Pace, and now the kid can't stay on the field and is still raw heading into year 3 (which typically is when everything clicks for a WR). Just sucks.
_________________
topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 507
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IronMike84 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
Whiffing on Kevin White instead of the obvious Vic Beasley draft is already inexcusable.

Complete hindsight. You're fabricating a discernible gap in opinion of those two guys that did not exist in the weeks leading up to the draft.


They were close on everybody's public boards. Before this season many were saying Beasley was huge bust.

I was pushing hard for Beasley on another board and was eating crow his rookie year.

I thought White was a decent pick as did most people.

I will say that there are after reported rumors of his injury before the draft. I don't know if Bears knew, but it wasn't public info that I saw. If they knew he was hurt before draft and type of injury that makes pick a little worse. But hard to know how serious something is I guess.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dll2000


Joined: 04 Apr 2016
Posts: 507
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McShay didn't like Beasley as did others. They kept saying can't convert speed to power. They were right his rookie year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copy Pasting from the Browns forums

hornbybrown wrote:
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans
53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


Good to see this actually quantified.....because I had some inclination towards this when I was first comparing Mahomes' film to the others, when I hopped on the Mahomes wagon, and timing the hang time of some of their passes.... This confirms those fears, and completely kills Watson for me. That's blatantly not an NFL level arm.

Trubisky's is about the minimum that has success in the NFL... Interestingly enough the very top end throwers tend to fail too, since they tend to sacrifice accuracy for the extra velocity... and you don't see that major drop off in Mahomes' accuracy. Kid's got a very special arm talent.


Last edited by Epyon on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6898
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
Copy Pasting from the Browns forums

hornbybrown wrote:
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans
53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


That kills Watson for me. That's blatantly not an NFL level arm.


It's garbage. Glennon has a rifle and he registered 49 as well.

Now, if they asked you to throw it as hard as you could and he got a 49, that's a problem.
_________________
topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do they come up with that number? Is it an average of all the throws a QB makes in the drills?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
Copy Pasting from the Browns forums

hornbybrown wrote:
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans
53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


That kills Watson for me. That's blatantly not an NFL level arm.


It's garbage. Glennon has a rifle and he registered 49 as well.

Now, if they asked you to throw it as hard as you could and he got a 49, that's a problem.


http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/

It's not a perfect metric, no doubt.... but at the same time the odds simply don't at all favor QBs under 54MPH.

Glennon and Taylor are the only two of note anywhere near that low, and neither are exactly lighting up the league with their play. The bigger concern/indicator I think is that they have to slow down their passes to keep them under control.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6898
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
G08 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
Copy Pasting from the Browns forums

hornbybrown wrote:
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans
53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


That kills Watson for me. That's blatantly not an NFL level arm.


It's garbage. Glennon has a rifle and he registered 49 as well.

Now, if they asked you to throw it as hard as you could and he got a 49, that's a problem.


http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/

It's not a perfect metric, no doubt.... but at the same time the odds simply don't at all favor QBs under 54MPH.

Glennon and Taylor are the only two of note anywhere near that low, and neither are exactly lighting up the league with their play. The bigger concern/indicator I think is that they have to slow down their passes to keep them under control.


I mean, just turn on the tape man and you'll see it for yourself.

Not every throw is rifled at 100%, ya know? Those combine throws especially.
_________________
topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7791
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
Copy Pasting from the Browns forums

hornbybrown wrote:
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans
53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


Good to see this actually quantified.....because I had some inclination towards this when I was first comparing Mahomes' film to the others, when I hopped on the Mahomes wagon, and timing the hang time of some of their passes.... This confirms those fears, and completely kills Watson for me. That's blatantly not an NFL level arm.

Trubisky's is about the minimum that has success in the NFL... Interestingly enough the very top end throwers tend to fail too, since they tend to sacrifice accuracy for the extra velocity... and you don't see that major drop off in Mahomes' accuracy. Kid's got a very special arm talent.


I wouldn't be surprised to see Pace target Mahomes if he falls into the late 1st early 2nd.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 3285
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would everyone feel about trading to get Kirk Cousins (pending a long term deal). Sounds like he is adamant that he won't stay there.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/10/report-kirk-cousins-wont-sign-long-term-deal-from-bruce-allen/

Given this QB class, would you give the 1st or 2nd rounder this year for him?
_________________
2013 Kyle Long Rookie of the Year Award

Adopt a Bear - Kyle Long (Two Season Streak)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
How would everyone feel about trading to get Kirk Cousins (pending a long term deal). Sounds like he is adamant that he won't stay there.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/10/report-kirk-cousins-wont-sign-long-term-deal-from-bruce-allen/

Given this QB class, would you give the 1st or 2nd rounder this year for him?


Cousins to me is somewhere between Cutler and Rivers tier of QB

IE good enough to get you to the playoffs, but not quite at that elite level where you expect he'll win a ring one day.

That said, if he can stay healthy 5 or so years, we'd have a good 3 year window. I just think he'd need a really really strong team, like our 2006 squad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 13173
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
How would everyone feel about trading to get Kirk Cousins (pending a long term deal). Sounds like he is adamant that he won't stay there.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/10/report-kirk-cousins-wont-sign-long-term-deal-from-bruce-allen/

Given this QB class, would you give the 1st or 2nd rounder this year for him?


Cousins to me is somewhere between Cutler and Rivers tier of QB

IE good enough to get you to the playoffs, but not quite at that elite level where you expect he'll win a ring one day.

That said, if he can stay healthy 5 or so years, we'd have a good 3 year window. I just think he'd need a really really strong team, like our 2006 squad.

FWIW, Rivers has only made the playoffs once in the last 7 years, and at no time in the last 7 years have they won as many as 10 games.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kizer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuJcPzb815A
Trubisky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPBtAZktCVU
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
51to54


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 1802
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
Copy Pasting from the Browns forums

hornbybrown wrote:
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans

53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


Good to see this actually quantified.....because I had some inclination towards this when I was first comparing Mahomes' film to the others, when I hopped on the Mahomes wagon, and timing the hang time of some of their passes.... This confirms those fears, and completely kills Watson for me. That's blatantly not an NFL level arm.

Trubisky's is about the minimum that has success in the NFL... Interestingly enough the very top end throwers tend to fail too, since they tend to sacrifice accuracy for the extra velocity... and you don't see that major drop off in Mahomes' accuracy. Kid's got a very special arm talent.


I wouldn't be surprised to see Pace target Mahomes if he falls into the late 1st early 2nd.

Weird. I'm on the Mahomes bandwagon, even if we have to trade up, largely because he looks like he has some elite ability. Meanwhile, Number 2 on the Webb looked like he had a weak arm for a college QB after i watched a couple of clips of every throw in two games
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 17067
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
G08 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
Copy Pasting from the Browns forums

hornbybrown wrote:
Ball velocity numbers (MPH) from the Combine:

60 - Mahomes
59 - Webb
56 - Kizer
55 - Trubisky, Evans
53 - Peterman, Kaaya
49 - Watson


That kills Watson for me. That's blatantly not an NFL level arm.


It's garbage. Glennon has a rifle and he registered 49 as well.

Now, if they asked you to throw it as hard as you could and he got a 49, that's a problem.


http://blogs.ourlads.com/2016/03/02/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/

It's not a perfect metric, no doubt.... but at the same time the odds simply don't at all favor QBs under 54MPH.

Glennon and Taylor are the only two of note anywhere near that low, and neither are exactly lighting up the league with their play. The bigger concern/indicator I think is that they have to slow down their passes to keep them under control.


I mean, just turn on the tape man and you'll see it for yourself.

Not every throw is rifled at 100%, ya know? Those combine throws especially.


Agreed, these metrics are completely, 100% useless. Even Mayock and Sanders were saying at the combine, the passing drills aren't about how hard you can throw it, its about putting it where it needs to be without looking like its a duck. When you put these QB's in an actual NFL offense and give him the practice to develop a rapport with the receivers, I guarantee you all those numbers will be different.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Chicago Bears All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 64, 65, 66  Next
Page 65 of 66

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group