Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Draft QB Talk
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 20, 21, 22 ... 64, 65, 66  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Chicago Bears
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6907
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

Quote:
Deshaun Watson just beat Alabama in the national championship. in the weeks prior to the game, Walt and I surveyed teams around the league to see where their initial draft grades were for Watson. Two playoff teams told me they had third-round grades on Watson. One said it was on the low end as a third- to fourth-rounder. A high-ranking personnel man on a playoff team told Walt that they had a third-round grade on Watson. Two other teams said they had second-round grades on Watson. Another team thought that Watson still could be a late first-round quarterback, similar to Teddy Bridgewater, because of the dire need at the position across the NFL.

In this draft analyst's opinion, I would grade Watson as a third-round pick for the 2017 NFL Draft. Watson has been off with his accuracy this year, displaying poor ball placement, especially when going downfield. He has missed a lot of potential touchdowns as a result. Watson's performance against Louisville confirmed the accuracy and ball-placement problems we've seen all season. He hasn't dominated, and his play is not that of a top quarterback prospect. All of this illustrates that Watson still has room for improvement with his field vision, ball placement, and accuracy. He did finish the regular season playing better, but that doesn't make up for the struggles in the first two-thirds of the season.

It's worth noting that Watson is undersized compared to your average NFL starting quarterback. On top of that, he plays in a college spread offense that doesn't correlate well to the NFL. Thus, he's going to need to learn working under center and operating the huddle; he must improve footwork, and not being a running quarterback. There is no doubt that Watson has great intangibles as a hard worker with good character off the field and leadership in the locker room.


His national championship game is not enough to overcome this.


What bothers me about that site is that they've had your exact bolded quote listed there for the past couple months. When they say 'weeks prior to the game' they mean many, many weeks. Not that it matters.
_________________
topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Madmike90


Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 26827
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

Quote:
Deshaun Watson just beat Alabama in the national championship. in the weeks prior to the game, Walt and I surveyed teams around the league to see where their initial draft grades were for Watson. Two playoff teams told me they had third-round grades on Watson. One said it was on the low end as a third- to fourth-rounder. A high-ranking personnel man on a playoff team told Walt that they had a third-round grade on Watson. Two other teams said they had second-round grades on Watson. Another team thought that Watson still could be a late first-round quarterback, similar to Teddy Bridgewater, because of the dire need at the position across the NFL.

In this draft analyst's opinion, I would grade Watson as a third-round pick for the 2017 NFL Draft. Watson has been off with his accuracy this year, displaying poor ball placement, especially when going downfield. He has missed a lot of potential touchdowns as a result. Watson's performance against Louisville confirmed the accuracy and ball-placement problems we've seen all season. He hasn't dominated, and his play is not that of a top quarterback prospect. All of this illustrates that Watson still has room for improvement with his field vision, ball placement, and accuracy. He did finish the regular season playing better, but that doesn't make up for the struggles in the first two-thirds of the season.

It's worth noting that Watson is undersized compared to your average NFL starting quarterback. On top of that, he plays in a college spread offense that doesn't correlate well to the NFL. Thus, he's going to need to learn working under center and operating the huddle; he must improve footwork, and not being a running quarterback. There is no doubt that Watson has great intangibles as a hard worker with good character off the field and leadership in the locker room.


His national championship game is not enough to overcome this.


What bothers me about that site is that they've had your exact bolded quote listed there for the past couple months. When they say 'weeks prior to the game' they mean many, many weeks. Not that it matters.


Which means it's not a reactionary statement...Watson played a fantastic game last night showing fantastic poise and leadership...my concern is we have seen it in college football before...a guy like Colt McCoy was an exceptional college QB with all the poise and leadership of Watson...I still just don't see a Top 3 pick and if I'm honest the more I watch the QB the more I can't see a way of not putting Mahomes in the top 3 QB.
_________________
Adopt-a-Bear...Adrian Amos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16526
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deshaun Watson as it stands right now is probably not a 3rd overall pick.

But if someone cleans up his footwork and his mechanics, what will he be worth by 2018?


My fear is we pass on a guy, we know he is a hard worker, he cleans up a couple issues and he is a star/face of the franchise guy.

Personally I am willing to bet on Watson and his intangibles.
_________________
John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
Pathetic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16526
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Watson may not be very good in the end, we don't know.

But I have seen a lot of QBs that look the part of a 3rd overall pick, we just got done with one, but who never had the "it" factor to be anything more than a mediocre QB with all the physical tools.

I will understand if they pass on him. I will also understand if they don't and think he can be the face of the Bears.
_________________
John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
Pathetic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7791
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

Quote:
Deshaun Watson just beat Alabama in the national championship. in the weeks prior to the game, Walt and I surveyed teams around the league to see where their initial draft grades were for Watson. Two playoff teams told me they had third-round grades on Watson. One said it was on the low end as a third- to fourth-rounder. A high-ranking personnel man on a playoff team told Walt that they had a third-round grade on Watson. Two other teams said they had second-round grades on Watson. Another team thought that Watson still could be a late first-round quarterback, similar to Teddy Bridgewater, because of the dire need at the position across the NFL.

In this draft analyst's opinion, I would grade Watson as a third-round pick for the 2017 NFL Draft. Watson has been off with his accuracy this year, displaying poor ball placement, especially when going downfield. He has missed a lot of potential touchdowns as a result. Watson's performance against Louisville confirmed the accuracy and ball-placement problems we've seen all season. He hasn't dominated, and his play is not that of a top quarterback prospect. All of this illustrates that Watson still has room for improvement with his field vision, ball placement, and accuracy. He did finish the regular season playing better, but that doesn't make up for the struggles in the first two-thirds of the season.

It's worth noting that Watson is undersized compared to your average NFL starting quarterback. On top of that, he plays in a college spread offense that doesn't correlate well to the NFL. Thus, he's going to need to learn working under center and operating the huddle; he must improve footwork, and not being a running quarterback. There is no doubt that Watson has great intangibles as a hard worker with good character off the field and leadership in the locker room.


His national championship game is not enough to overcome this.
I wonder what these same front office men and scouts had Watson graded last year after his amazing sophomore season?

Better yet I'd like to see what their grade was on Russell Wilson when he was coming out of college.

You simply cannot just go by what these so called unnamed sources say. The proof is in the pudding. He passes the eye test.

That doesn't guarantee he'll be a successful NFL QB but he certainly has the goods. And just like 99% of players he's not going to realize all his potential on his own.

Watson was heavily scrutinized this year because of how good his sophomore season was. He didn't live up to the same production statistically and now everyone wants to crucify him. I think it's jokes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6907
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Deshaun Watson as it stands right now is probably not a 3rd overall pick.

But if someone cleans up his footwork and his mechanics, what will he be worth by 2018?


My fear is we pass on a guy, we know he is a hard worker, he cleans up a couple issues and he is a star/face of the franchise guy.

Personally I am willing to bet on Watson and his intangibles.


Here's my question: who are you going to take at #3 that is head and shoulders better than a DB/DL you can get in round 2?
_________________
topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blkwdw13


Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 2788
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

Quote:
Deshaun Watson just beat Alabama in the national championship. in the weeks prior to the game, Walt and I surveyed teams around the league to see where their initial draft grades were for Watson. Two playoff teams told me they had third-round grades on Watson. One said it was on the low end as a third- to fourth-rounder. A high-ranking personnel man on a playoff team told Walt that they had a third-round grade on Watson. Two other teams said they had second-round grades on Watson. Another team thought that Watson still could be a late first-round quarterback, similar to Teddy Bridgewater, because of the dire need at the position across the NFL.

In this draft analyst's opinion, I would grade Watson as a third-round pick for the 2017 NFL Draft. Watson has been off with his accuracy this year, displaying poor ball placement, especially when going downfield. He has missed a lot of potential touchdowns as a result. Watson's performance against Louisville confirmed the accuracy and ball-placement problems we've seen all season. He hasn't dominated, and his play is not that of a top quarterback prospect. All of this illustrates that Watson still has room for improvement with his field vision, ball placement, and accuracy. He did finish the regular season playing better, but that doesn't make up for the struggles in the first two-thirds of the season.

It's worth noting that Watson is undersized compared to your average NFL starting quarterback. On top of that, he plays in a college spread offense that doesn't correlate well to the NFL. Thus, he's going to need to learn working under center and operating the huddle; he must improve footwork, and not being a running quarterback. There is no doubt that Watson has great intangibles as a hard worker with good character off the field and leadership in the locker room.


His national championship game is not enough to overcome this.
I wonder what these same front office men and scouts had Watson graded last year after his amazing sophomore season?

Better yet I'd like to see what their grade was on Russell Wilson when he was coming out of college.

You simply cannot just go by what these so called unnamed sources say. The proof is in the pudding. He passes the eye test.

That doesn't guarantee he'll be a successful NFL QB but he certainly has the goods. And just like 99% of players he's not going to realize all his potential on his own.

Watson was heavily scrutinized this year because of how good his sophomore season was. He didn't live up to the same production statistically and now everyone wants to crucify him. I think it's jokes.


Here's my little take or question, if Watson got these kind of suggestions from the advisory board why would he come out this year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6907
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The funny thing, to me, is that NOBODY has their boards set. Nobody.

This is all nonsense... the scouts could say "I don't like him" or "I won't pound the table for him, he has a ton of flaws" but to be saying "my team has him in the second round" is a bold faced lie.
_________________
topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16526
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Garrett, Allen, Hooker and Adams are special players. They all probably offer a significant upgrade over a similar player in round 2.

But I agree with your sentiment.

I am hunting QBs in this draft, the only way I go defense I if I have some plan at QB (Garoppolo or McCarron) that does not involve drafting one.
_________________
John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
Pathetic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 13180
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I think Garrett, Allen, Hooker and Adams are special players. They all probably offer a significant upgrade over a similar player in round 2.

But I agree with your sentiment.

I am hunting QBs in this draft, the only way I go defense I if I have some plan at QB (Garoppolo or McCarron) that does not involve drafting one.

How much better than Akiem Hicks is Allen likely to be though? We got Hicks in 2nd tier FA and he was a dominating week in week out impact player. Do you really see Allen being more than that? To justify a 5T at #3 I need him to be JJ Watt when the trade off is passing on a QB with franchise QB potential.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 17075
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calais Campbell is a free agent too. Honestly I'm perfectly ok with rolling with our players and picking up Campbell. He's older but performing at a really high level and would be a great influence for Bullard and other young guys, he's a very high character and intelligence guy.

To me, I'd rather sign a guy like Campbell than try to hope a QB falls in our laps later in the draft, and I think there will be much less of a drop off in the teams overall talent that way. Also puts them in more of a position to win now if they focus on those holes in free agency instead of the draft.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 3298
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Deshaun Watson as it stands right now is probably not a 3rd overall pick.

But if someone cleans up his footwork and his mechanics, what will he be worth by 2018?


My fear is we pass on a guy, we know he is a hard worker, he cleans up a couple issues and he is a star/face of the franchise guy.

Personally I am willing to bet on Watson and his intangibles.


Here's my question: who are you going to take at #3 that is head and shoulders better than a DB/DL you can get in round 2?


Pass rusher - Garrett (dreaming, I know), Barnett
DT/NT/5T - Allen, Brantley
CB - Wilson, Tabor
S - Hooker, Adams, Baker ( I think he is a late 1st, and there is a considerable drop from there)

Now I wouldn't take all at 3, hell I'd only go Garrett or Allen, as I would go QB or trade back otherwise. I'd be happy with all but Brantley top 10, and he is a top 20 pick to me at this point (reminds me of Danny Shelton with how he plays). If we did in some way land him, I'd put him at NT and let Goldman go to 5T. He is just as good at anchoring but I think Goldman will just be a better rusher, by a good margin.

I will also say I'm damn glad Shelton had a fantastic year, I remember getting some serious guff about rating him so high. Pretty sure Gogriese was on the Shelton-train with me there. Laughing
_________________
2013 Kyle Long Rookie of the Year Award

Adopt a Bear - Kyle Long (Two Season Streak)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HuskieBear


Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 1812
Location: Milwaukee
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

Quote:
Deshaun Watson just beat Alabama in the national championship. in the weeks prior to the game, Walt and I surveyed teams around the league to see where their initial draft grades were for Watson. Two playoff teams told me they had third-round grades on Watson. One said it was on the low end as a third- to fourth-rounder. A high-ranking personnel man on a playoff team told Walt that they had a third-round grade on Watson. Two other teams said they had second-round grades on Watson. Another team thought that Watson still could be a late first-round quarterback, similar to Teddy Bridgewater, because of the dire need at the position across the NFL.

In this draft analyst's opinion, I would grade Watson as a third-round pick for the 2017 NFL Draft. Watson has been off with his accuracy this year, displaying poor ball placement, especially when going downfield. He has missed a lot of potential touchdowns as a result. Watson's performance against Louisville confirmed the accuracy and ball-placement problems we've seen all season. He hasn't dominated, and his play is not that of a top quarterback prospect. All of this illustrates that Watson still has room for improvement with his field vision, ball placement, and accuracy. He did finish the regular season playing better, but that doesn't make up for the struggles in the first two-thirds of the season.

It's worth noting that Watson is undersized compared to your average NFL starting quarterback. On top of that, he plays in a college spread offense that doesn't correlate well to the NFL. Thus, he's going to need to learn working under center and operating the huddle; he must improve footwork, and not being a running quarterback. There is no doubt that Watson has great intangibles as a hard worker with good character off the field and leadership in the locker room.


His national championship game is not enough to overcome this.


I rewatched the game last night, specifically the 2nd half, and the biggest thing i was wondering was "Is Watson killing it with these back shoulder throws, or are these just inaccurate passes that his guys are adjusting to?"
_________________
Madmike90 wrote:
Hurting after today tho is Denzel Washington...5-10 1/2" is a concern...Chris Borland helps him but the 1st round is out of reach now if it wasn't already.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6907
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HuskieBear wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill

Quote:
Deshaun Watson just beat Alabama in the national championship. in the weeks prior to the game, Walt and I surveyed teams around the league to see where their initial draft grades were for Watson. Two playoff teams told me they had third-round grades on Watson. One said it was on the low end as a third- to fourth-rounder. A high-ranking personnel man on a playoff team told Walt that they had a third-round grade on Watson. Two other teams said they had second-round grades on Watson. Another team thought that Watson still could be a late first-round quarterback, similar to Teddy Bridgewater, because of the dire need at the position across the NFL.

In this draft analyst's opinion, I would grade Watson as a third-round pick for the 2017 NFL Draft. Watson has been off with his accuracy this year, displaying poor ball placement, especially when going downfield. He has missed a lot of potential touchdowns as a result. Watson's performance against Louisville confirmed the accuracy and ball-placement problems we've seen all season. He hasn't dominated, and his play is not that of a top quarterback prospect. All of this illustrates that Watson still has room for improvement with his field vision, ball placement, and accuracy. He did finish the regular season playing better, but that doesn't make up for the struggles in the first two-thirds of the season.

It's worth noting that Watson is undersized compared to your average NFL starting quarterback. On top of that, he plays in a college spread offense that doesn't correlate well to the NFL. Thus, he's going to need to learn working under center and operating the huddle; he must improve footwork, and not being a running quarterback. There is no doubt that Watson has great intangibles as a hard worker with good character off the field and leadership in the locker room.


His national championship game is not enough to overcome this.


I rewatched the game last night, specifically the 2nd half, and the biggest thing i was wondering was "Is Watson killing it with these back shoulder throws, or are these just inaccurate passes that his guys are adjusting to?"


Those were dimes man, he was throwing those all season.

If we draft him, we HAVE to keep Alshon, it will be beautiful to watch.
_________________
topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pigsooie5


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 5610
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
I think Garrett, Allen, Hooker and Adams are special players. They all probably offer a significant upgrade over a similar player in round 2.

But I agree with your sentiment.

I am hunting QBs in this draft, the only way I go defense I if I have some plan at QB (Garoppolo or McCarron) that does not involve drafting one.

How much better than Akiem Hicks is Allen likely to be though? We got Hicks in 2nd tier FA and he was a dominating week in week out impact player. Do you really see Allen being more than that? To justify a 5T at #3 I need him to be JJ Watt when the trade off is passing on a QB with franchise QB potential.

A lot of issues with this post. First off, finding guys like Aliem Hicks who dominate in the 2nd tier of FA is far from the norm. Props to Pace for doing his homework on that one but you absolutely cannot bank on it. Hicks played comparable to Suh this season, I think Allen will be a Fletcher Cox like player in the NFL, is that better than Suh/Hicks? Debatable. You can't say this guy better be JJ Watt if we're drafting him #3 overall, if everyone drafted top 3 on the DL was JJ Watt we'd have 20 of them across the league. By that notion, if we're drafting a QB top 3 he better be Peyton Manning.
_________________

BEARS----BULLS----DODGERS----KINGS--
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Chicago Bears All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 20, 21, 22 ... 64, 65, 66  Next
Page 21 of 66

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group