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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6916
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
G08 wrote:
Did Mahomes declare??


No, not yet. I just feel he will want to take advantage of what looks to be a weaker QB class. It will be hard to improve much other than mechanically, and I am hontestly not sure how much of a focus that will be. To me he will advance faster under an NFL positional coach, getting reps from under center now.


I do too... that dude makes me tingly in my nether-regions
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
G08 wrote:
Did Mahomes declare??


No, not yet. I just feel he will want to take advantage of what looks to be a weaker QB class. It will be hard to improve much other than mechanically, and I am hontestly not sure how much of a focus that will be. To me he will advance faster under an NFL positional coach, getting reps from under center now.


I do too... that dude makes me tingly in my nether-regions


Laughing

I do feel his mechanics get over-scrutinized though. He doesn't have Tebow mechanics or Logan Thomas accuracy, he gets the ball where he wants at a fantastic rate, getting the foundation cleaned up should only improve that. Kinda seems like the easy passes he sometimes takes for granted. Coaching fixes that fairly easily. I'd love to trade up to the 32nd pick if he does well on the white board. No position gets more bang for your buck as a 5th year option than a starting QB IMO. More than makes up for the small jump of 4 picks for a 4th or 5th rounder.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Middlekauf said he is a 3rd/4th round guy.

I think everyone is falling in love with the physical tools and the fact he lit up horrendous defenses.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
John Middlekauf said he is a 3rd/4th round guy.

I think everyone is falling in love with the physical tools and the fact he lit up horrendous defenses.


Arm and athleticism do it for me, he's a cross between a raw Brett Favre and a Johnny Manziel minus the coke/booze/hookers/general [inappropriate/removed].
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
John Middlekauf said he is a 3rd/4th round guy.

I think everyone is falling in love with the physical tools and the fact he lit up horrendous defenses.


Him playing at Texas Tech plus being based off projection will have a lot of variance in rankings. Kiper had him as the number 2 QB behind Trubisky (his number 16 player on his big board not too long ago). But then he went on to say he didn't think anyone else was going in the 1st, which I think is total nonsense. Burke has him as the 4th QB, etc.

As for the offense, Goff came out of a rather simple spread-based offense and still went 1st overall. Dak went in the 4th in large part due to his DUI right before the draft. He has better tools than Petty and unlike Petty he reads defenses and made audibles based on what he saw. Hackenburg made it only to the middle of the second with worse mechanics and far worse accuracy. With Mahomes obvious arm-talent and athletic ability, plus reportedly crazy high intangibles, there is no way he drops to the 4th IMO.
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anonymousGM


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't fall in love with 1st round QB's gentleman. If your not 100% he's your guy don't take a QB in the top-5.

I have a late-first round grade on Watson right now.

I like to start my evaluations on the premise of does the system make the player, or does the player make the system.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A late 1st round grade from someone who has never met a QB, who knows nothing about his intelligence or his leadership or really any of the mental side of the game doesn't mean a ton.

Does the system make Watson?

I think he would be just fine in a more pro style attack. Just because someone is not asked to do something, doesn't mean they cannot do it.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anonymousGM wrote:
Don't fall in love with 1st round QB's gentleman. If your not 100% he's your guy don't take a QB in the top-5.

I have a late-first round grade on Watson right now.

I like to start my evaluations on the premise of does the system make the player, or does the player make the system.


I go back and fourth.

On the one hand, I'd hate to reach for Deshaun Watson at #3 when there's a chance he could fall out of the first round altogether.

Then again, I'd hate to take Derek Barnett (love me some pass rushers) and then in round 2 have none of my top 3 QBs available... although there will be quality defensive backs and tight ends available there.

Huh... maybe they roll with Cutler another year? Laughing
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could see Davis Webb getting a lot of momentum from the pre-draft process and going in the 1st. He has the arm talent, size, and leadership qualities teams covet.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Is the player capable and willing to learn?

2. Does the player have the work ethic and mental toughness to survive at the NFL level?


Then you can get to everything else.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
1. Is the player capable and willing to learn?

2. Does the player have the work ethic and mental toughness to survive at the NFL level?


Then you can get to everything else.


I don't think it's that easy, Windy.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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pigsooie5


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New England has said that the trade price for Jimmy G will start at a 1st and 4th round pick.

Quote:
Kirk and Callahan
@Kirk and Callhan
@AdamSchefter says discussions for Jimmy G in a trade start at a 1st & 4th round draft pick (the Sam Bradford return)


http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2016/12/28/patriots-want-a-1st-and-4th-round-pick-for-qb-jimmy-garoppolo/

Unfortunately for NE, all the teams that are even remotely in the QB market are picking in the top 5-15. I can't see any team giving that up plus some for Jimmy. I think they might cave at a high 2nd, 4th, additional pick in 2018.

Cleveland looks to be a no brainer here. Can offer #33, and possibly a 3rd this year to get it done.

EDIT: With that said, I think it is all but a 100% guarantee that Jimmy G WILL be traded this offseason. With the mention of Glennon getting $15m this offseason, NE can't afford to possibly pay Jimmy even MORE to ride the bench for several seasons.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
1. Is the player capable and willing to learn?

2. Does the player have the work ethic and mental toughness to survive at the NFL level?


Then you can get to everything else.


I don't think it's that easy, Windy.


That is not the end of it.

But every QB needs to learn and work at his craft at the NFL level. Some of the can't or won't.

Doesnt matter what the physical tools are if they don't do the first 2.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boston Globe guy thinks it is a 2nd from Browns or Bears.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Boston Globe guy thinks it is a 2nd from Browns or Bears.


If you can get Jimmy straight up for a 2nd round pick then you do it because you might not believe he is better than Kizer, Watson or Trubisky but he is damn sure better than anyone else in this draft.
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