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Week 17 GDT Oakland Raiders @ Denver Broncos
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
If Turner and McGovern could be starters we'd only have two holes on the offensive line we could draft two tackles and sign a free agent stop gap left tackle.


Given their inability to beat our starters for PT that's a leap of faith I wouldn't feel good about. At least in McGovern's case his inability to beat out Garcia could be due to the rookie learning curve.

Re: Brock I think it's clear that Siemian is better even now with his struggles, but it's a moot point if we are talking present season. One costs min wage, one costs 16m.


Sambrialo beat out Stephenson for. Playing time doesn't mean he's a good player. These coaches play it entirely way too safe . Turner being signed October 17th had no chance to see playing time either did McGovern being raw.


So...you're going to let one game decide future personnel decisions? That's awful logic - it's reactionary, and based on small sample size. We all know that our OL is our biggest weakness for next year - but somehow, we've missed two starters from our current group all year long? Because the coaches played it safe? And that one game on Week 17 is going to show this? Are you even listening to yourself right now?

McGovern is a rookie, so there's plenty of hope he might be ok as he learns - but it's by no means a guarantee - and Elway shouldn't be putting all his eggs in that basket. Some guys take 1 year, others take 2 - by McGovern's growth so far, it's no lock he's 1-year, he could be 2, or worse, he could be a complete washout. I certainly hope he's ready to compete for a position - but that's all he should be doing, at best. And again, even if McGovern's ready to help, it's should be seen as a great bonus - but even then, depth matters. Teams don't go in thinking they have 5 guys on the OL - they should be 7,8 deep, because injuries are a fact of life. If we think McGovern & Turner can help in 2017, awesome - but it shouldn't be as starters going in. That's how you end up with a 2016 OL disaster. At least in 2016, Elway didn't have much of a choice, given the org wanted its QBOTF from the draft, and he had no cap $ to go after OL upgrades if they wanted to keep their young core guys (which is a no-brainer right call). This offseason, we don't need to invest into extending our core, but we can address our OL & run D deficiencies, both in FA & the draft - and no matter how well McGovern & Turner play in one game, those weaknesses aren't suddenly any different.

We have the resources to invest in OL & DL, and we should by all means do that for 2017. McGovern & Turner are potential depth guys if they play well this week and continue to develop in the offseason and OTA's, at least for McGoverb his roster spot is quite safe. That alone would be a huge bonus - but it's also going to be based off more than this game - offseason, OTA's, etc. Preseason for McGovern as well. Projecting them to be starters from this week's performance is a leap of faith equally as misguided as saying Lynch was drafted to be our 2016 starter right after we drafted him, or even in the preseason - you don't go in with that as plan A. McGovern & Turner's growth (or lack thereof) don't suggest this, they put it in ink.

These late-season auditions are great because they help show where a rookie or raw project needs to work in the offseason, and if they've progressed - but 1-game performances are not how orgs make key decisions, not when they are literally 3-4 guys away from a championship. That's how bad orgs make decisions - fortunately, we're not one of them, and I'm thankful for that. 1 game is great for us to see where we need those guys to improve - and they'll have an entire offseason, OTA's, and if we keep guys like Turner, the preseason to work on. But let's not go overboard on what we're getting from this one game. I'm sure if Lynch struggles, we aren't going to suddenly cut bait, right? Same as if he plays well, we aren't suddenly going to explore the trade market for Siemian (not that he helped himself the last 2 weeks lol). Well, that applies as much, if not more, to our OL analysis for 2017.

The best orgs are the ones that aren't reactionary - the biggest lesson we learned from last offseason was NOT to read too much into a 6-game sample into making key future roster decisions - HOU saved us from that colossal mistake with Osweiler. That was also a result of us not having many other choices because of cap $ / who else was there in the QB market. But now, you're suggesting we go off 1 game to make a similarly important decision on next year's starters on the area we are the weakest in (OL), when we have cap & draft resources, and a much wider pool of FA & draft possibilities to fill those areas, unlike 2016? Let's take a deep breath, and let logic & sanity rule.


I'm not saying one game dictates next seasons starting lineup not in the least. But I'm also saying just because they didn't get playing time in prior games doesn't mean they're duds. My ideal off season would have us solidifying the roster while still being able to go bpa first round if there is a linebacker on the board like Foster who can help us right away I'd rather go there than reach for a need . That's my thought process as a fan.


If Foster is our BPA, then we should go there when we are up. But, if an interior OL is our BPA overall, then great, too.

And no, not cracking this year's roster doesn't mean they're duds - but it also means you cannot go into 2017 thinking they'll make the jump. Which is what you are saying when you say they could be next year's starters. It's one thing to hope, it's another to plan. Elway has to upgrade 3 OL spots, and plan to use guys like McGovern as bench depth. If they suddenly have the light come on, and are starter-level, great. But if they're not starter-level to start the season, which is still the most likely scenario, we're still covered either way.

Re: round 1 choice, I don't believe in reaching for need either - but interior OL who are Pro-Bowl ceiling level are actually worth a top 20 pick. The old thinking of G as somehow less valuable is out of date. Zack Martin, David Decastro, TJ Lang, these guys are OL anchors as much as T's are. I think there are 2-3 G's who actually have that ceiling, and 1, maybe a 2nd, who's actually polished enough to plug and play right away - I'm putting those 2 in my top 25, regardless of need.

Now, rarely, does the draft go perfectly 1-30, and we get our 20th, or 18th, or 16th guy, wherever we pick, be the 16th, 18th, 20th BPA - usually a spot or 2 higher. But, unless it's a QB or TE, the 2 spots I think are a complete waste of 1st round picks when you have guys there (QB) or because of the growth curve needed to actually play in the NFL (TE), it's very possible that if we pick at 20, the overall BPA will be a G - and that's not a reach pick, not this year.

I have no idea who Elway thinks the overall BPA is, regardless of need - but if it's an interior OL, I wouldn't be surprised. And if it's not, and he goes elsewhere (except QB/TE), great. But, whether or not our young guys have a good game this week, or not, we have to upgrade 3 spots on the OL from the current roster next year - including Turner/McGovern.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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SilverNBlackFan


Joined: 15 Oct 2007
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Location: R.I.P Al Davis 1929-2011
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siemian one half and Lynch the other half ? whaa? Who splits halfs up like that nowadays? What happens if Siemian is balling out in the first half, do you still yank him?

Just seems like a weird clumsy decision by Kubiak. The logical move would be to just start Lynch and let the 1st rounder get some more PT before the off-season.
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AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I'm beside myself.
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KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 8255
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SilverNBlackFan wrote:
Siemian one half and Lynch the other half ? whaa? Who splits halfs up like that nowadays? What happens if Siemian is balling out in the first half, do you still yank him?

Just seems like a weird clumsy decision by Kubiak. The logical move would be to just start Lynch and let the 1st rounder get some more PT before the off-season.


Because they don't want the raiders to win the Division.
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KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talib is one step away from committing a felony on the field. He ripped Crabtrees gold chain right off his neck.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see Peko on the field. Nice run stops x 2.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
Nice to see Peko on the field. Nice run stops x 2.


Yeah was just going to say he looked good there
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Booker running hard both last week and so far this week. Good to see.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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KingBishop


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Line looks better. A little late but there's hope.
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KingBishop


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we can fix the line Booker and CJ should be very good going forward for this teams run game.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's this team been the last 3 weeks?
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big_palooka:

bhslinebacker wrote:
AAA is right, as he usually is.
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KingBishop


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Where's this team been the last 3 weeks?


Sleeping. Gary is actually not being conservative. What the hell
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KingBishop


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoke too soon
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingBishop wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Where's this team been the last 3 weeks?


Sleeping. Gary is actually not being conservative. What the hell



If only he coached like he had nothing to lose... it's actually fun to watch.

Booker is unreal with a chip on his shoulder - and by that i mean not starting. Never let him start, ever.
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-sign Wade now.
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broncosfan07


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much for Paxton seeing snaps.
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