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FriendlyEnemy


Joined: 30 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:02 pm    Post subject: General Draft Talk Reply with quote

Well we are out of the playoffs officially, so it's time to look towards the future. We are currently slotted at 8 with the potential of moving up to I think 7. That puts us at around 39-40 for the second round.

With that being said, which prospects would you like for us to work out and go after with these picks. Personally I see us either getting Cook/Fournette or a defensive lineman. Cam Robinson is the only o-lineman worth a high pick, and there are talks of his game translating more into the guard spot than tackle.

In terms of the Cook vs Fournette debate: I think Cook fits our read offense better. In the very few FSU games I've watched their offense looked a lot like ours with read-options out of the shotgun/pistol. He is a speedy back who would compliment Stewart well if we keep him. The major drawback with Cook is that I see him having an injury riddled career at his size.

That being said, Fournette is a freak of nature. We have a freak of nature at QB. We have a freak of nature at WR. Now we could have a freak at RB. There are some injury concerns (ankle) and concerns about desire/commitment with Fournette, but the talent is hard to overlook.
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FriendlyEnemy


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thought. Last year there was talk of Hunter Henry being rated very highly on our big board and possibly being the pick, but Vernon Butler "fell" to us so Gettleman made the pick there. If OJ Howard or Jake Butt are available with our 2nd round pick, do you see use drafting one of them with that pick? I personally would grow to like it, but we have other big needs that need to be addressed before TE.
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cpanthers178990


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fournette is the sexy pick. However I only want offensive and defensive lineman picked in this draft. Not even joking. I hope we come away with 3 offensive lineman at the very least. If not, I'll be calling for gettlemans job. Unless we sign/ trade for some this offseason. Seriously the tackle situation has been a joke ever since he has gotten here and hasn't gotten better in the slightest. You have a franchise QB and the best he could come up with to protect him was a combo of Mike remmers, bryon bell, nate chandler, and Michael oher. Michael oher is clearly head and shoulders over the rest and he is serviceable at best. DG is gonna mess around and end up ruining what could have been a great career for cam if he doesn't stop being cheap.
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FriendlyEnemy


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cpanthers178990 wrote:
Fournette is the sexy pick. However I only want offensive and defensive lineman picked in this draft. Not even joking. I hope we come away with 3 offensive lineman at the very least. If not, I'll be calling for gettlemans job. Unless we sign/ trade for some this offseason. Seriously the tackle situation has been a joke ever since he has gotten here and hasn't gotten better in the slightest. You have a franchise QB and the best he could come up with to protect him was a combo of Mike remmers, bryon bell, nate chandler, and Michael oher. Michael oher is clearly head and shoulders over the rest and he is serviceable at best. DG is gonna mess around and end up ruining what could have been a great career for cam if he doesn't stop being cheap.


I agree that we need some lineman as well, but I don't see any of them being worth the #8 pick. I can see us picking some back to back Olineman in the 2nd and 3rd.
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Cypher


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's gonna be a DE. I'm almost certain of it.
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FriendlyEnemy


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Garrett is miraculously there I'd be so so so happy. If we pick Jonathan Allen I'll lose my damn mind.
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Toughguy77


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love it if we went with Barnett out of Tennessee. The guy is a monster and lives in the backfield.
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yesweCAM


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be fine with Robinson, Barnett, Fournette, or Adams in that order.

What offensive lineman do you think would be available in the 2nd round?
Ramcyzk seems like he would go late 1st. McGlinchey hasn't declared yet. There's been reports that he is considering going back for his senior season. Johnson from FSU? Who else?

As far as the interior line goes, I think we are pretty set with Norwell - Khalil - Turner. I wouldn't mind picking a backup center in the 3rd or 4th round.

Do we get a comp pick this year for Norman? And we lose a 4th round pick for Andy Lee, right?
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FriendlyEnemy


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yesweCAM wrote:
I would be fine with Robinson, Barnett, Fournette, or Adams in that order.

What offensive lineman do you think would be available in the 2nd round?
Ramcyzk seems like he would go late 1st. McGlinchey hasn't declared yet. There's been reports that he is considering going back for his senior season. Johnson from FSU? Who else?


I'm not scout, but from what I've been reading/hearing it seems like a very thin OT class. Ramcyzk recently hurt his knee and has undergone surgery for it. He will miss all the pre-draft workouts and may cause him to slide (maybe to our pick in the 2nd?). McGlinchey is an intriguing one who I can see going up the draft board if he decides to declare, but reports right now say he is coming back for his senior year. Another name I keep hearing is Garett Bolles, junior out of Utah. I am not sure if he has declared yet, but he will be 25 next year and may declare to maximize his time in the league. He has all the measureables you want for an LT and could be available in the 2nd/3rd, but his age does turn me off a little bit.


yesweCAM wrote:

Do we get a comp pick this year for Norman? And we lose a 4th round pick for Andy Lee, right?


We have a 3rd round comp for Norman. I think we still have one 4th rounder but I'm not sure how.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FriendlyEnemy wrote:
yesweCAM wrote:
I would be fine with Robinson, Barnett, Fournette, or Adams in that order.

What offensive lineman do you think would be available in the 2nd round?
Ramcyzk seems like he would go late 1st. McGlinchey hasn't declared yet. There's been reports that he is considering going back for his senior season. Johnson from FSU? Who else?


I'm not scout, but from what I've been reading/hearing it seems like a very thin OT class. Ramcyzk recently hurt his knee and has undergone surgery for it. He will miss all the pre-draft workouts and may cause him to slide (maybe to our pick in the 2nd?). McGlinchey is an intriguing one who I can see going up the draft board if he decides to declare, but reports right now say he is coming back for his senior year. Another name I keep hearing is Garett Bolles, junior out of Utah. I am not sure if he has declared yet, but he will be 25 next year and may declare to maximize his time in the league. He has all the measureables you want for an LT and could be available in the 2nd/3rd, but his age does turn me off a little bit.


yesweCAM wrote:

Do we get a comp pick this year for Norman? And we lose a 4th round pick for Andy Lee, right?


We have a 3rd round comp for Norman. I think we still have one 4th rounder but I'm not sure how.


We gave up a 2018 4th for Lee, IIRC.

Norman comp pick will be a 3ed.

IMO, there is no tackle worth a top 10 pick. I like Cam Robinson's attitude/nastyness... but I think we need to spend cap money on OL Starters and draft for future needs.

This team is not far away from being another NFC favorite.

The games we lost this year, for the most part, were not by that much.... and the games we won last year, for the most part, were not by that much either.

In this league, you often have to scrape by.... winning the close ones.

I see a big difference in our team when we are able to run the ball and we we have a solid pass-blocking RB in the backfield with Cam.

Now, a big reason why our offense was anemic this year was due to the crap fest on the OL. Injury's can be blamed for a lot of that.... if not ALL of that.

Our defense, even without Luke, is tied for #1 in sacks. That is huge and says a lot about our needs as a team. We need more pressure from our front 4 but we are still getting pressure. We need more turnovers, but we still have the makings of a top-5 caliber defense when this secondary gets more time under it's belt.

That is why I think we pick Fournette.

Now, if Garrett drops then you do not pass on the best player in the draft.

But, barring that, I think Fournette is the 2nd best player in the draft.

He has every sign of being the best back to come out since AP.

Butt in the 2nd is a nice option too... Cam needs a TE like him... like Olsen.

The rest of the draft can be used for things like DE, OL, FB, P, etc.

But we need to not get Project, hit or miss, young Tackles in a bad draft for the position. We need veteran, high caliber OTs protecting Cam.

That is what we need to spend on this year....

and then draft Fournette.
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yesweCAM


Joined: 24 Oct 2011
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Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
FriendlyEnemy wrote:
yesweCAM wrote:
I would be fine with Robinson, Barnett, Fournette, or Adams in that order.

What offensive lineman do you think would be available in the 2nd round?
Ramcyzk seems like he would go late 1st. McGlinchey hasn't declared yet. There's been reports that he is considering going back for his senior season. Johnson from FSU? Who else?


I'm not scout, but from what I've been reading/hearing it seems like a very thin OT class. Ramcyzk recently hurt his knee and has undergone surgery for it. He will miss all the pre-draft workouts and may cause him to slide (maybe to our pick in the 2nd?). McGlinchey is an intriguing one who I can see going up the draft board if he decides to declare, but reports right now say he is coming back for his senior year. Another name I keep hearing is Garett Bolles, junior out of Utah. I am not sure if he has declared yet, but he will be 25 next year and may declare to maximize his time in the league. He has all the measureables you want for an LT and could be available in the 2nd/3rd, but his age does turn me off a little bit.


yesweCAM wrote:

Do we get a comp pick this year for Norman? And we lose a 4th round pick for Andy Lee, right?


We have a 3rd round comp for Norman. I think we still have one 4th rounder but I'm not sure how.


We gave up a 2018 4th for Lee, IIRC.

Norman comp pick will be a 3ed.

IMO, there is no tackle worth a top 10 pick. I like Cam Robinson's attitude/nastyness... but I think we need to spend cap money on OL Starters and draft for future needs.

This team is not far away from being another NFC favorite.

The games we lost this year, for the most part, were not by that much.... and the games we won last year, for the most part, were not by that much either.

In this league, you often have to scrape by.... winning the close ones.

I see a big difference in our team when we are able to run the ball and we we have a solid pass-blocking RB in the backfield with Cam.

Now, a big reason why our offense was anemic this year was due to the crap fest on the OL. Injury's can be blamed for a lot of that.... if not ALL of that.

Our defense, even without Luke, is tied for #1 in sacks. That is huge and says a lot about our needs as a team. We need more pressure from our front 4 but we are still getting pressure. We need more turnovers, but we still have the makings of a top-5 caliber defense when this secondary gets more time under it's belt.

That is why I think we pick Fournette.

Now, if Garrett drops then you do not pass on the best player in the draft.

But, barring that, I think Fournette is the 2nd best player in the draft.

He has every sign of being the best back to come out since AP.

Butt in the 2nd is a nice option too... Cam needs a TE like him... like Olsen.

The rest of the draft can be used for things like DE, OL, FB, P, etc.

But we need to not get Project, hit or miss, young Tackles in a bad draft for the position. We need veteran, high caliber OTs protecting Cam.

That is what we need to spend on this year....

and then draft Fournette.


I think we would all like veteran, high caliber OT's. But if you look at this year's free agents at OT, these are the high caliber OT's that I would consider:

Whitworth - Already 35, probably only has 1 to 2 years left in him. Has played with the Bengals his whole career. That's not changing

Vollmer - 32, will resign with the Pats. They won't let him go.

Reiff is intriguing. Played RT this year but has some experience at LT. I would consider signing him if the price is right.

After that, you have Khalil (who's been disappointing for the start of his career), Jordan Mills (pretty underwhelming) and Menelik Watson. There might be other guys who I'm missing. Let me know if there are.

With that being said, there really aren't any experienced veteran OT that we have a legitimate shot of signing imo. That's why if Robinson is available at our pick, I would be completely fine with picking him and hope we can develop him. I would bet he would be better than Remmers from Day 1.

However, if we pick around 10, I think we would have a lot of options to consider. It's a nice spot to be in to pick DE, Fournette, SS or Robinson (if available) right now. Things change with the draft process though so we'll see.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually I would be against signing a player like Kalil to start who hasn't shown anything since his rookie year, but maybe being here with his brother would help him out. Plus if Oher retires, we would have to sign somebody. Even if we draft someone in the first round, I would rather have a competition at LT between the rookie and a FA like Kalil rather than Remmers.

I wouldn't be angry if we took Fournette. But I wouldn't agree with it. There is no reason to take a RB in the first round considering how stacked this draft is at that position and it isn't like Stewart is bad - the system just isn't good. Plus I would rather take Dalvin Cook if it came down to it, especially if we keep Shula. Cook would probably find more success with our long as hell developing run plays.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kalil can come in and be our LT for years.

He has looked very underwhelming, yes.

However, when Oher came here (IIRC) he graded out worse than... oh god, what was his name... dude we let go... crap, brain stopped.

Anyway...

Kalil can come here and have the benefit of a mobile QB, a solid running game (to keep the D guessing) and (most importantly) a solid interior to help him out.

Kalil > Oher

He's young, a vet and a known commodity.

I would not hate Robinson and Kalil coming to Carolina.

I believe we are a solid OL away from another SB.

But I also think that a player like Fournette is a player that you cannot pass on if you have the opportunity to pick him... if we bring in a couple OTs in FA... even just Kalil and pencil in Williams at RT (vomit), then we can draft Fournette.

Now, again, I'm not saying that if Garrett drops... heck, if he drops even to 5 or 6 and we can trade up... we go get him. It's a no brainer there.

But, barring that... he would be the best player available and fill a positing of need. If that doesn't scream that he is the pick than I do not know what does.
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Toughguy77


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
Kalil can come in and be our LT for years.

He has looked very underwhelming, yes.

However, when Oher came here (IIRC) he graded out worse than... oh god, what was his name... dude we let go... crap, brain stopped.

Anyway...

Kalil can come here and have the benefit of a mobile QB, a solid running game (to keep the D guessing) and (most importantly) a solid interior to help him out.

Kalil > Oher

He's young, a vet and a known commodity.

I would not hate Robinson and Kalil coming to Carolina.

I believe we are a solid OL away from another SB.


But I also think that a player like Fournette is a player that you cannot pass on if you have the opportunity to pick him... if we bring in a couple OTs in FA... even just Kalil and pencil in Williams at RT (vomit), then we can draft Fournette.

Now, again, I'm not saying that if Garrett drops... heck, if he drops even to 5 or 6 and we can trade up... we go get him. It's a no brainer there.

But, barring that... he would be the best player available and fill a positing of need. If that doesn't scream that he is the pick than I do not know what does.


This, along with Cam fixing his mechanics a tad and bringing in some more experience in the secondary.

Thoughts on reuniting Nate Allen, Coleman, and McDermott from the Philly 2010 season? I haven't followed how Nate Allen has played as of late.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toughguy77 wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
Kalil can come in and be our LT for years.

He has looked very underwhelming, yes.

However, when Oher came here (IIRC) he graded out worse than... oh god, what was his name... dude we let go... crap, brain stopped.

Anyway...

Kalil can come here and have the benefit of a mobile QB, a solid running game (to keep the D guessing) and (most importantly) a solid interior to help him out.

Kalil > Oher

He's young, a vet and a known commodity.

I would not hate Robinson and Kalil coming to Carolina.

I believe we are a solid OL away from another SB.


But I also think that a player like Fournette is a player that you cannot pass on if you have the opportunity to pick him... if we bring in a couple OTs in FA... even just Kalil and pencil in Williams at RT (vomit), then we can draft Fournette.

Now, again, I'm not saying that if Garrett drops... heck, if he drops even to 5 or 6 and we can trade up... we go get him. It's a no brainer there.

But, barring that... he would be the best player available and fill a positing of need. If that doesn't scream that he is the pick than I do not know what does.


This, along with Cam fixing his mechanics a tad and bringing in some more experience in the secondary.

Thoughts on reuniting Nate Allen, Coleman, and McDermott from the Philly 2010 season? I haven't followed how Nate Allen has played as of late.


Man if you're waiting on mechanics from Cam Newton then you're going to be waiting for a long time. A 27 year old NFL quarterback isn't revamping his game now. He can become more cerebral with it, by spending more time in the film room but the way he plays his game is going to stay the same. Heck, it's mvp-caliber anyway.

I hear a lot of talk about how we need to put more talent in the secondary. I can't remember the last time the secondary was the strength of our team. If you ask me, we need to beef up the defensive pass rush so we can drop our linebackers in the coverage and not have to Blitz defensive backs and linebackers to get sacks. For whatever my opinion is worth, I think our back seven is fine.
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