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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 33730
Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Ravens trade Timmy Jernigan + #99 to PHI for #74


This trade sucks.


I don't hate it really. I'd have liked to keep Jernigan this year but this is essentially the value of a 3rd round comp pick. He may have gotten us a 4th next year depending on how he played this year but I don't mind the value.

Will allow us move flexibility to move around.


Is moving up 25 spots in the 3rd round really the same value as a 3rd round comp pick? Genuinely curious.

With him being in a contract year I think there's legitimate reason to believe he's going to ball out this year. Lots of talented guys w/ consistency issues tend to put it all together for their contract years and I suspect Jernigan will as well. Losing a year of potentially good production from a player with a skill we need more of when we would have gotten a comp pick for him next year feels useless.


According to the TVC, it is surprisingly. Nearly exact too (assuming you go by pick # rather than strictly round). #99 is worth 104, #74 is worth 220. Leaves a difference of 116 which equates to pick #96 (technically last pick of round 3).

And I don't disagree that Jernigan may have had a great year for us given it's a contract year. But it essentially boils down to:

Year of Jernigan potentially playing well + 2019 4th/5th comp pick

vs.

3rd round value in 2017 (moving up from late 3rd to early/mid 3rd).

With this year's draft having a lot of solid value in the 2nd/3rd rounds, it's not a bad position to be in. Could package and make a splash with multiple early/mid 2nd rounders, throw a 4th with a 3rd and move back into the 2nd, etc. Obviously they'd be risking that the player chosen would ultimately provide to the team over the next 4 years more value than Jernigan for 1.
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't love the trade, but I don't hate it, either. Seems like a trade that was done due to risk aversion. That is, given his inconsistency in his few short years here, the Ravens weren't confident enough in him producing to that point that'd he'd warrant a high compensatory selection when he left after the season. Which, given his history, I understand.

Only annoying part about this is if he balls out in Philly this year, people are going to be bashing Ozzie for making a terrible trade, when there's no way to accurately predict that he would of had the same type of production here. I honestly think, contract year or not, Philly will get more or less the same player we've grown accustomed to. That is, a guy who flashes for stretches of the season, but disappears all together for others. In which case, this trade will ultimately be graded upon who we select and how our remaining defensive linemen step up this year.
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KiddKillah


Joined: 07 Nov 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gives us ammo to trade up. Particularly in the 2nd round, where it should be a lot of great 1st round quality talent sitting there atop of day 2.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jernigan strikes me as a guy who will probably have a very good year as he's motivated, get paid, and then end up being overpaid and released 2 years after. Similar to Art Jones.

But like RTID said, I think the team is going for a longer-term outlook rather than a 1 year production which I kind of like. I think we're still at least a year away from being potential SB contenders given our youth (and elderliness) in key areas.
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have preferred the pick straight up but this is fine. I just wanted a deal to get done. Our line is deep with young pass rushing 5-techs, it will be great to have them compete for a starting spot. Should bring the demon out in them.

Philly has similar needs to us and removing them from the early part of the third and putting them behind both our picks is a win. As others have stated it gives us more valuable trade ammo as well, though I see us staying put for the most part unless a generous trade down scenario presents itself.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
I don't love the trade, but I don't hate it, either.

This is where I am at with this trade too.

I guess we'll see what we really have in Urban/Kaufusi/Henry, but I wouldn't put it past the FO to sign a veteran later in FA or after camp cuts either.
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KiddKillah


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...

1st Rd: WR Mike Williams/Corey Davis

2nd Rd: EDGE Tim Williams/Derek Rivers/Charles Harris (praying)

3rd Rd: C Ethan Pocic/Pat Elflien

3rd Rd (Jernigan pick): CB Sidney Jones or Teez Tabor


Very ideal. If we could turn Jernigan into one of Jones or Tabor, I feel we'd win that move overall. I think that pick is the perfect spot for both guys coming off the board.
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the benefits of the 34 is that finding interior DL for the system is easier. No need to pay one unless they are a superstar like Ngata, Seymour, Watt etc. We paid what many view as the most important position in the system with Brandon Williams at Nose. Unloading Jernigan is almost an extension of the Williams re-signing. Jernigan is like an arm or a hand that fires with movement some of the time, Williams is a Head that consistently performs even above normal output levels. Which is harder to replace? We have plenty of replacement arms and hands, but now we also have consistently good head. Ask anyone in the world. Why would you pay for hand that's good some of the time, when you can consistently get good head?

Sometimes I think people just don't understand the complexities of NFL defenses.
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santiagomn8


Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
One of the benefits of the 34 is that finding interior DL for the system is easier. No need to pay one unless they are a superstar like Ngata, Seymour, Watt etc. We paid what many view as the most important position in the system with Brandon Williams at Nose. Unloading Jernigan is almost an extension of the Williams re-signing. Jernigan is like an arm or a hand that fires with movement some of the time, Williams is a Head that consistently performs even above normal output levels. Which is harder to replace? We have plenty of replacement arms and hands, but now we also have consistently good head. Ask anyone in the world. Why would you pay for hand that's good some of the time, when you can consistently get good head?

Sometimes I think people just don't understand the complexities of NFL defenses.


hahahaha
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paraven


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the first year you can trade comp picks and Ozzie does just that. I like the trade. Like it was said earlier, this puts us ahead of alot of teams with similar needs in the 3rd. I like have two early picks in that round, there will be very good value there.
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Stance Punk


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad why not just for a pick outright Crying or Very sad
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11792
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stance Punk wrote:
Crying or Very sad why not just for a pick outright Crying or Very sad


See this reaction a lot. But, it's a 25 spot jump. That's basically a late 3rd or a 4th in value. Even Howie Rosman said that it was hard for the Eagles to move down in the third this year. We're likely going to move up/down anyway, so value is value. Wouldn't feel any different if we got the 96th overall for him.

Personally, I'd have rather seen Jernigan play out the year, but I definitely see the logic in moving him. 3rd round value was the best we could hope for given he's about to be paid, and the quality of players in this draft.

We now have 4 picks in the top 75, to follow a strong rookie class last year. We can really build something now.
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bmorecareful


Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 841
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

25 picks is 7 away from the amount that is in an entire round minus comp picks.... Im cool with that... if pierce is the starter anyway I'm cool with seeing what the other four young guys we recently drafted can do... it's time to believe in the process... lets see what we got in these young boys especially when its a foregone conclusion that Timmy want here for the long haul anyway
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11080
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0641115366071735589-4

Quote:
Seven-time Pro Bowl center Nick Mangold is visiting the Ravens, according to a source. Mangold, who was released by the Jets this offseason, arrived late Tuesday afternoon and will stay through Wednesday. The Ravens traded three-year starting center Jeremy Zuttah to the 49ers last month, leaving them with unproven John Urschel and Ryan Jensen at that spot.


Quote:
Jeff Zrebiec‏Verified account @jeffzrebiecsun 18m18 minutes ago

Can confirm this: Ravens want to check out where Mangold is health-wise.


There you guys go. I'm still more in favor of rolling with the young players like Urschel, Jensen, or maybe Skura but if the team isn't going to give them a chance regardless then...
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 33730
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:

There you guys go. I'm still more in favor of rolling with the young players like Urschel, Jensen, or maybe Skura but if the team isn't going to give them a chance regardless then...


I don't disagree necessarily but if he's healthy, I'd much rather bring him in and at least give our inexperienced, OG convert players some sort of competition at C. He'd be a safety net in case one of these young guys struggles.
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