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TT4Life7


Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
I'm very aware that what I want to do is not a popular opinion, and it may not be something our FO would even do, but it's what I think would give us the best 2018 and 2019 football team, while still being competitive enough in the AFC South to make the playoffs. It doesn't matter who we draft, we're not going to win a SB until Mariota takes us there.

With Jones and Lattimore looking considerably less appealing, I don't want to take any CB in the top 20. I don't really like the talent at CB at #18 anymore than I like it at #48. To me, there's no one who stands out, outside of the two guys I mentioned above with their various issues.


Well...if thats your opinion on the cb talent then I can understand your way of thinking then because you're then you're afraid of over valuing a position just because of a need. I just disagree that their aren't players worthy of our selections.

And lets say you're right about the prospects and we were to trade down and acquire a 2nd then, like I've said, Im all aboard on the OJ train and ok with waiting to grab a corner in the second.
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TT4Life7


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
TT4Life7 wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
titans0021 wrote:
Quote:
You're looking at it as "having" to change your offense to fit him in. I'm looking at it as now you have a ton of things you couldn't do before that you can do now.
I'd sure hope so if you're spending a top five pick on a position that is traditionally not valued incredibly highly where you already have a Pro Bowl player starting. Laughing


Rishard Matthews and John Ross at WR

Delanie Walker and OJ Howard at TE

Demarco Murray/Derrick Henry at RB

Mariota at QB

The sheer amount of things and formations you can do with one personnel grouping.


Better be able to do alot because we're gonna need to score a ton of points to make up for the secondary that we didn't address because of it.


We've added two starters to our secondary already. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they won't help improve it. Cyprien playing as our nickel ILB should help a lot with average TEs and the RBs that we never could seem to cover in the flat.

We could just as easily trade into the 2nd round and take my favorite CB in the draft, Fabian Moreau. The Bucs gave up a 3rd and a 4th to get back into the 2nd last year. It wouldn't take much more for us to get a CB that I was happy with. I don't think it matters, because I don't see a rookie CB starting day 1 in our defense anyway.


Who said I dont like them? Im not super excited about Cyprien in coverage but I am excited for what he brings to stopping the run. And I love Logan Ryan. He's super super solid and was had a reasonable price. I just believe we need alot more help there. Thats how bad it is.

And why wouldnt we start a rookie corner? We played two rookie, late round corners for half the season in 16, but we wouldnt play a 1st round pick?
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2nd round is where I really like the CB value. Tankersly, White, Moreau, others. It's just about how we maneuver to get into position to get our guy. With 2 firsts and 2 thirds, it shouldn't be too hard to get into that position.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TT4Life7 wrote:

Who said I dont like them? Im not super excited about Cyprien in coverage but I am excited for what he brings to stopping the run. And I love Logan Ryan. He's super super solid and was had a reasonable price. I just believe we need alot more help there. Thats how bad it is.

And why wouldnt we start a rookie corner? We played two rookie, late round corners for half the season in 16, but we wouldnt play a 1st round pick?


I was just assuming you didn't like them. It seems a lot of people feel like our defense is going to be even worse than last year, despite the fact that we added a starting CB and SS and haven't made it to a draft in which we can land 4 of the best 100 players in the draft before making any trades. They may not exactly believe that, but everyone exaggerates on here, including myself. I also believe we need help at CB, as well as a center-fielder at FS, and an athletic ILB, I'm just not sold that the first round is the only/best way to fill that need, especially if I believe you would be reaching because of need.

I don't think Sims actually started until they cut Cox with like 5 games to go. We rotated our safetys all year long and Byard got more snaps as the year went on, to eventually getting a majority at the end, I believe. Neither were day 1 starters though and simply got more playing time because the veterans in front of them were so god awful. I realize we still need to address the position, but unlike others, I don't believe it is going to be to the extent that it was at the beginning of 2016.

I think there's a chance that Sims is going to be a favorite. I know he had very little time at the end of the season, but he did look better than the people he replaced. I'm expecting them to start with Sims and Ryan as the top 2 CBS. Really wish another vet was added into the mix, but I'm not going to change my idea of draft strategy because of it.

Rookies have just never been a big part of any of Lebeau's defenses. Someone mentioned that it was a Steeler's practice, but I have a hard time believing a Hall of Fame coach wasn't allowed to play rookies if he actually felt they would improve his defense.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
TT4Life7 wrote:

Who said I dont like them? Im not super excited about Cyprien in coverage but I am excited for what he brings to stopping the run. And I love Logan Ryan. He's super super solid and was had a reasonable price. I just believe we need alot more help there. Thats how bad it is.

And why wouldnt we start a rookie corner? We played two rookie, late round corners for half the season in 16, but we wouldnt play a 1st round pick?


I was just assuming you didn't like them. It seems a lot of people feel like our defense is going to be even worse than last year, despite the fact that we added a starting CB and SS and haven't made it to a draft in which we can land 4 of the best 100 players in the draft before making any trades. They may not exactly believe that, but everyone exaggerates on here, including myself. I also believe we need help at CB, as well as a center-fielder at FS, and an athletic ILB, I'm just not sold that the first round is the only/best way to fill that need, especially if I believe you would be reaching because of need.

I don't think Sims actually started until they cut Cox with like 5 games to go. We rotated our safetys all year long and Byard got more snaps as the year went on, to eventually getting a majority at the end, I believe. Neither were day 1 starters though and simply got more playing time because the veterans in front of them were so god awful. I realize we still need to address the position, but unlike others, I don't believe it is going to be to the extent that it was at the beginning of 2016.

I think there's a chance that Sims is going to be a favorite. I know he had very little time at the end of the season, but he did look better than the people he replaced. I'm expecting them to start with Sims and Ryan as the top 2 CBS. Really wish another vet was added into the mix, but I'm not going to change my idea of draft strategy because of it.

Rookies have just never been a big part of any of Lebeau's defenses. Someone mentioned that it was a Steeler's practice, but I have a hard time believing a Hall of Fame coach wasn't allowed to play rookies if he actually felt they would improve his defense.


It's not that we don't like them... it's about seeing the bigger picture. The jags are a team with nice pieces... but do they maybe sense?

Ryan is a good CB, and was a solid move. His play was great down the stretch last year... he was a great N CB and great against the run from there. If we use him to his strengths, that still leaves us with a void (or 2) on the outside. If we keep him outside full time, it takes him out of position where he's played best, his strengths.

Cyprien is a beast in the run game... maybe the best current in the box safety in the league. How exactly does he help our pass game tying his safety spot? He doesn't... he does from a LB position covering short zones, although it's not like even that's a specialty of his either. So if he's a LB, how did we improve the secondary? We still need 2 safeties then. My fear is that they expect him to play safety... which would force Byard to play the more traditional 1- deep safety, aka a CF type safety. He could do it, but that's not his strength. His versatility is his strength... he was great closer to the LOS last year.

So that's why I'm concerned. I don't see the plan. We've gotten two pieces... good pieces, but where do they fit in... how do they fix a secondary that was in shambles last year.

I'm trying to made sense of it... maybe McCourty is going to be asked to make that move to FS this year... maybe Cyprien does take that LB role full time... those moves make sense in my mind... makes the pass game better. Maybe a trade down from 5 is a certainty, and a CB with one of those 1sts or newly acquired 2nd is gong to be a CB that will compete with Sims and win outright... or maybe he'll be able to move Ryan inside on N packages.
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lamont


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^That's why I want to trade the 5th pick and pick up that 2nd round pick.
You get your starting corner, TE & safety/WR in the top 2 rounds.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I highly doubt they did all this without a plan. I definitely could see disappointment about not adding more depth in FA, but I dont feel like the sky is falling. Having Logan Ryan would have did a lot for our defense alone. If Cyprien is used the way I think he is, he would have been a huge improvement in the middle last year.

Like I said, it's not how I would have done it, but I dont really see a reason for me rto believe I am smarter than Jon Robinson at this point. At the same time last year everyone was furious with him for not getting a RT and leaving it up to the draft.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Like I said, it's not how I would have done it, but I dont really see a reason for me rto believe I am smarter than Jon Robinson at this point. At the same time last year everyone was furious with him for not getting a RT and leaving it up to the draft.
I really don't think this is true. Most of us were pretty content with taking Tunsil at 1 and all I remember is pretty much everyone discussing Tunsil/Conklin/Decker for months.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
Quote:
Like I said, it's not how I would have done it, but I dont really see a reason for me rto believe I am smarter than Jon Robinson at this point. At the same time last year everyone was furious with him for not getting a RT and leaving it up to the draft.
I really don't think this is true. Most of us were pretty content with taking Tunsil at 1 and all I remember is pretty much everyone discussing Tunsil/Conklin/Decker for months.


I remember like 3 people (exaggerating) who were on my side with taking Tunsil at #1 and a bunch of people arguing with me that we had already spent too many first round picks on the offensive line. Maybe it's me misremembering it, but I remember quite a few people being very against spending another first round pick, especially the first overall pick, on an offensive lineman.

I actually thought we had a poll and Jalen Ramsey was a landslide favorite.
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J.Redd10


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how everyone feels about if we were to trade a 5th or 6th round pick for Josh Gordon if the league reinstates him 🤔.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
titans0021 wrote:
Quote:
Like I said, it's not how I would have done it, but I dont really see a reason for me rto believe I am smarter than Jon Robinson at this point. At the same time last year everyone was furious with him for not getting a RT and leaving it up to the draft.
I really don't think this is true. Most of us were pretty content with taking Tunsil at 1 and all I remember is pretty much everyone discussing Tunsil/Conklin/Decker for months.


I remember like 3 people (exaggerating) who were on my side with taking Tunsil at #1 and a bunch of people arguing with me that we had already spent too many first round picks on the offensive line. Maybe it's me misremembering it, but I remember quite a few people being very against spending another first round pick, especially the first overall pick, on an offensive lineman.

I actually thought we had a poll and Jalen Ramsey was a landslide favorite.
Yeah, admittedly, I may be remembering post-trade conversations where we were going back and forth on Conklin and Decker more than anything.

I'm sure there were people against investing more in the line, but I don't think people were super upset. I suppose I could go back and look it up, but I just don't care that much.

Ramsey played a flashier position and was a hometown kid, I'm sure most preferred him over Tunsil around here.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was 100% one of the Tunsil guys. JRob did good though... trading down and getting Conklin.

In JRob we trust...

The FO did a great job improving the run game last year. But what if... and I know this is sacrilege here in the house of JRob... but what if a lot of our success came from Mariota masking a lot of the deficiencies... as opposed to the improvement being only a result of the awesome roster that was put together?

The ex GM in Jacksonville made a lot of great moves, put some talent on the field... was thought to be a better GM candidate sooner than JRob... I'm sure some fans even thought of him as an extremely intelligent GM asst one point. The ex GM in Indy drafted Luck and Hilton in his first year there... genius!

I'm not saying JRob is headed down that path, but he's also far from infallible. Mistakes were made last year... and I'm sure mistakes are being made this year. We just have to hope we're not headed down that Indy path, with Mariota masking the holes... and hope we're putting a good team together around Mariota, not just doing enough where he can make it look better than it really is...
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragevsuall17 wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
TT4Life7 wrote:

Who said I dont like them? Im not super excited about Cyprien in coverage but I am excited for what he brings to stopping the run. And I love Logan Ryan. He's super super solid and was had a reasonable price. I just believe we need alot more help there. Thats how bad it is.

And why wouldnt we start a rookie corner? We played two rookie, late round corners for half the season in 16, but we wouldnt play a 1st round pick?


I was just assuming you didn't like them. It seems a lot of people feel like our defense is going to be even worse than last year, despite the fact that we added a starting CB and SS and haven't made it to a draft in which we can land 4 of the best 100 players in the draft before making any trades. They may not exactly believe that, but everyone exaggerates on here, including myself. I also believe we need help at CB, as well as a center-fielder at FS, and an athletic ILB, I'm just not sold that the first round is the only/best way to fill that need, especially if I believe you would be reaching because of need.

I don't think Sims actually started until they cut Cox with like 5 games to go. We rotated our safetys all year long and Byard got more snaps as the year went on, to eventually getting a majority at the end, I believe. Neither were day 1 starters though and simply got more playing time because the veterans in front of them were so god awful. I realize we still need to address the position, but unlike others, I don't believe it is going to be to the extent that it was at the beginning of 2016.

I think there's a chance that Sims is going to be a favorite. I know he had very little time at the end of the season, but he did look better than the people he replaced. I'm expecting them to start with Sims and Ryan as the top 2 CBS. Really wish another vet was added into the mix, but I'm not going to change my idea of draft strategy because of it.

Rookies have just never been a big part of any of Lebeau's defenses. Someone mentioned that it was a Steeler's practice, but I have a hard time believing a Hall of Fame coach wasn't allowed to play rookies if he actually felt they would improve his defense.


Cyprien is a beast in the run game... maybe the best current in the box safety in the league. How exactly does he help our pass game tying his safety spot? He doesn't... he does from a LB position covering short zones, although it's not like even that's a specialty of his either. So if he's a LB, how did we improve the secondary? We still need 2 safeties then. My fear is that they expect him to play safety... which would force Byard to play the more traditional 1- deep safety, aka a CF type safety. He could do it, but that's not his strength. His versatility is his strength... he was great closer to the LOS last year..


False. Are we forgetting Byard before last season? In college he was the traditional single high deep safety and that's how he was able to build his stock up to be a 3rd round pick. Last season, he played in the box a lot because nobody was as good as him at it. They wanted Searcy to do it but it never worked out. Byard showed he could do it but let's not forget that he has a ton of ability and can play deep safety at a high level. Adding Cyprien let's him to be able to play his more natural position.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think Byard is the most athletic guy. I don't believe using him as a deep safety is goinf to be playing to his strengths. I know what he did at a small school in college, but guys are a lot faster here. I think his range is limited playing single high safety only. He can do it, but I think his strength is going to be moving him everywhere.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
I dont think Byard is the most athletic guy. I don't believe using him as a deep safety is goinf to be playing to his strengths. I know what he did at a small school in college, but guys are a lot faster here. I think his range is limited playing single high safety only. He can do it, but I think his strength is going to be moving him everywhere.


I wouldn't call MTSU a small school... he has more then enough speed to be the deep safety and the instincts to make an impact. Watch his Alabama tape.
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