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College Football Prospects and Mock Draft Discussion v.3
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 39006
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
kelbot wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
Tyrod Taylor is just another guy. He is good enough to keep us out of the dumpster but not good enough to win anything. We would be stuck in the 7-9 to 9-7 category.

Swing for a real QB or don't swing at all.


This line of thinking is inexplicable to me.


Why? This is what we essentially did with RGIII and it failed us. Paid for someone elses garbage and ended up with 1 win.

The Bills led the league in rushing yards, had a very good OL, a great RB, and explosive playmakers in their passing game. They still ended up bleh. The FO apparently thought Taylor was part of that problem, as they are throwing him away a year into offering him a good deal.


Not comparable to RGIII. RGIII was a guy ruined by injuries looking for a 2nd chance. The Browns were just looking for lightning in a bottle. Yeah the Bills ended up Blah cause they had a crap defense. They had one of the worse rush defenses in the league. The Bills being bleh this year wasnt because of Taylor. It be like saying the Browns were trash this year mainly because of RGIII. Bills had their issues. Tyrod wasnt the biggest issue. It was the defense.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 5913
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My boss played at VT...and a huge fan of them. I've watched them a couple of times this year......Evans is Poo Poo....
There are 3 cats on the VT offense that are legit....

Isiah Ford the WR is not getting the proper pub he deserves....I have him rated as my #5....

Buckey Hodges reminds me a LOT of Jordan Reed....but bigger.

Sam Rogers...Top FB in the draft....dual threat...can block for a little guy, and has great hands...and can take a short hand off for the short yardage carry.

Top 5 + HM WR's I've seen in this draft.
1. Mike Williams Clem

2. Corey Davis W. Mich

3. John Ross Wash.

4. Cooper Krup East. Wash. (Wes Welker CLONE...Dad and Grandfather were NFL players...bloodlines)

5. Isaiah Ford Vt.

Honorable Mention: Derrick Griffin Texas St. (I mentioned him in my Futures article last year...had a down season this season....seen him three times...).....remember this name....
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 4822
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
Not comparable to RGIII. RGIII was a guy ruined by injuries looking for a 2nd chance. The Browns were just looking for lightning in a bottle. Yeah the Bills ended up Blah cause they had a crap defense. They had one of the worse rush defenses in the league. The Bills being bleh this year wasnt because of Taylor. It be like saying the Browns were trash this year mainly because of RGIII. Bills had their issues. Tyrod wasnt the biggest issue. It was the defense.



My point should have been...add Tyrod Taylor to the Browns and what do we have? Less cap space and IMO, a very minor upgrade at QB. Very minor. I'd honestly rather let Kessler have another shot at the offense next year even if he and Taylor were making the same amount of money.

(After the Draft)
Tyrod Taylor at QB for us: 5 wins?
What we have now at QB for us: 5 wins?
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GFalcon wrote:
Yes, you guys will still win series but jokes on you because lebron going to fail again in the finals for CLE against GS or SA. Cool Sometimes i feel bad for cleveland
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isaiah Ford is going to be very good. Reminds me of Titus Young if he wasn't such a dummy. He's going to be an elite #2 WR for someone.
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GFalcon wrote:
Yes, you guys will still win series but jokes on you because lebron going to fail again in the finals for CLE against GS or SA. Cool Sometimes i feel bad for cleveland
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kelbot


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 2680
Location: Dayton, OH
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
kelbot wrote:
KamTrus20 wrote:
Tyrod Taylor is just another guy. He is good enough to keep us out of the dumpster but not good enough to win anything. We would be stuck in the 7-9 to 9-7 category.

Swing for a real QB or don't swing at all.


This line of thinking is inexplicable to me.


Why? This is what we essentially did with RGIII and it failed us. Paid for someone elses garbage and ended up with 1 win.

The Bills led the league in rushing yards, had a very good OL, a great RB, and explosive playmakers in their passing game. They still ended up bleh. The FO apparently thought Taylor was part of that problem, as they are throwing him away a year into offering him a good deal.


RGIII and Tyrod aren't comparable, IMO. Tyrod is so much better.


Outside of Sammy Watkins (who missed most of the season), I'd love to hear more about their explosive weapons. Their offense ranked in the top half of the league, the defense in the bottom half, in both of his seasons in Buffalo.

He's 27, has a good health history, a 3:1 TD:INT ratio, and a .500 record in 2 seasons as a starter.

Calling him a "very minor upgrade" over RG3 is laughable and not worth debating.
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kelbot


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
Isaiah Ford is going to be very good. Reminds me of Titus Young if he wasn't such a dummy. He's going to be an elite #2 WR for someone.


Elite #2 seems like an oxymoron.
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kelbot


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watson's throws remind me of Phillip Rivers'.
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BleedTheClock


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kelbot wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Isaiah Ford is going to be very good. Reminds me of Titus Young if he wasn't such a dummy. He's going to be an elite #2 WR for someone.


Elite #2 seems like an oxymoron.


Why? He doesn't have the ht/wt/spd to be a #1 receiver. He's not going to draw double coverage, but will work the underneath game and catch a ton of footballs. Your #1 receiver, IMO, needs to be able to stretch the field and have the size to Moss smaller DB's. This draws constant double teams, opening up the underneath game and the run game. Ford doesn't have those tools, but he would work very well as a complement to your #1 ht/wt/spd guy.


And guys, why on earth, if Tyrod Taylor was so good, would the Bills just get rid of him like that? Benched for EJ Manuel? It's hard to believe they're going to just get rid of their relatively young franchise QB because they want to scapegoat him.


Bills had a great receiving TE (Clay), and a good #2 WR (Woods) to complement Sammy Watkins, whom we all know is extremely explosive. Plus, LeSean McCoy is one of the best receiving backs in the league and rarely stayed in to block. They had plenty of athletic weapons for him to use. Additionally, they had Marquise Goodwin who is a track star. He's not good, but he is an explosive playmaker if you can get him the football.
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GFalcon wrote:
Yes, you guys will still win series but jokes on you because lebron going to fail again in the finals for CLE against GS or SA. Cool Sometimes i feel bad for cleveland
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AkronsWitness


Joined: 17 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kelbot wrote:
Watson's throws remind me of Phillip Rivers'.


Meh I thought Mahomes had a identical release to Rivers. Super low and compact. Which is kinda one of the reasons I dont like him as a prospect lol Osweiler has that same compact drop the shoulder release and it gets him murdered at the LOS.
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MSURacerDT55


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 7212
Location: 8 mile by way of St. Clair E.99
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
Isaiah Ford is going to be very good. Reminds me of Titus Young if he wasn't such a dummy. He's going to be an elite #2 WR for someone.


He just drops way too many passes for me, Quincy Morgan 2.0
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MSURacerDT55


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot take...( Ill take the flame for it if it doesn't happen) after the combine Solomon Thomas will be considered a top 5 prospect
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MSURacerDT55 wrote:
Hot take...( Ill take the flame for it if it doesn't happen) after the combine Solomon Thomas will be considered a top 5 prospect


I could see that.

Not that I normally like doubling up on a position group but Garrett and Thomas would be sexy.
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tbone32


Joined: 25 Nov 2016
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
tbone32 wrote:
I think we can all agree Kirksey & Collins(if resigned) are both good LB. Browns ran Nickel/Dime 72 percent and LA 85 percent, which means 2 lb on the field the majority of the time. Why is it some people are obsessed with taking Rueben Foster so high? Why exactly is a MLB on the field for less than 30 percent worth a 1st rd. pick? We've got a couple depth players who can fill that role at least adequately. It seems like a terrible waste of a draft pick.


You adapt your defense to the talent you have and if Reuben Foster is the best talent on the board at #12 you either take him and adapt your defense or hope you can find a trade partner to gather more assets.

I don't think Reuben Foster will be there at 12 but if he is then the chances of the other elite talents are more pressing needs will already be gone(Garrett, Allen, Takk, Williams, Hooker, Adams, Robinson ect).

I'd consider Sidney Jones. I think I like him more than Humphrey and almost as much as Teez Tabor.


I just don't understand where we would put 3 LB's, especially if we take some DL & DB's.
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cortes02


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AkronsWitness wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Taylor is not elite, but he is top 15, IMO. He would be good enough to get us in the playoffs with some talent around him. He would be a more than adequate bridge to a younger QB that we can develop, while allowing us to be competitive.


Right, but with the Browns scrambling to find a QB and the pressure on the FO right now. I am expecting trade for Jimmy TBH. The only question is how much we will give up.

If this analytics team is indeed 'numbers wizards' then they can do some magic to get NE to take two 2nds and keep out #12. There is no rationale behind Jimmy somehow being worth a top 15 pick in the draft. He hasnt proved anything outside he is capable of playing solid in a good system for a whopping 2 games.

He does though give us a QBOTF with high upside who is a pocket passer. Thats a gamble that myself and a FO in desperate need of. At bare minimum it keeps fans in the stands and fans interested in the team.

At the end of the day i HAVE to think that the current situation of the Browns turmoil in the media, sales, tickets, perception, ect. plays into this decision. There is more at work here that will go into this QB decision that just a simple 'we could use a franchise QB.' There IS a major sense of urgency given the state of the franchise. Which is why I think Jimmy G. will be their target since he is more ready made than any other prospect while providing youth and ceiling just as high as any prospect in this draft.

Your basically paying two 2nd rounders or a 1st rounder to not have to go through the 2 year learning curve any QB in this draft will have to go through. Is not having your young QB go through a steep learning curve worth another 2nd rounder? Sure.


I guess I'm a little confused with the statement in bold. My perception of the team is that they wanted to start from scratch so to speak which is why they stripped the team down so much. By breaking the team down to the bare minimum it showed me (at least in my mind) that they wanted to build the team slowly putting the right pieces together through mainly the draft. Because of this, I figured that they were thinking 3-4 years before they start winning on a consistent basis and challenging for a playoff spot, perhaps even a Super Bowl. So when you said that there IS a major sense of urgency, I just don't share the same opinion. I'm hoping that they don't try to rush the process & sign/trade for players as quick fixes so that they can start winning sooner. The team is so devoid of talent that I feel like we need to be patient with this new process that was started and we have to try to build the talent on the team first before we really talk about winning games and contending for playoff spots. I hope that the FO/Hue are not easily influenced by the fans and media. I especially hope that Haslem learned his lesson in regards to butting in to his FO/coaches jobs.


Just a general question for everyone. How many games do you expect the Browns to win next season? For me, I don't expect them to be very good next year either. I do expect them to win more then 1 game next year but I wouldn't ask for heads to roll if they won 3-4 games.

I guess I just am not seeing why the Browns need to be in a sense of urgency to win now when this new regime just started there own process. Think


Peace!!!
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Also, for my cap space nerds. Who should we cut and how much would we save theoretically?

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