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Week 16 GDT: Baltimore Ravens (8-6) @ Pittsburgh (9-5)
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nevermore


Joined: 30 Sep 2008
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Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
nevermore wrote:
Honestly, I don't see how they wouldv'e made (much less won) the Super Bowl this year anyway, so the loss is fine by me. There are way too many issues this team needs to resolve to be a legitimate contender.

If we'd have won this game, the only teams that would have seriously worried me in the AFC would have been the Pats (who we played close despite Jimmy going down during the game) and the Chiefs assuming they made it. The Raiders are down to their back-up QB or a rookie, same with Miami and Houston sucks.


The big problem was the loss of Jimmy. Even if he had come back, he definitely would not have been 100%.
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M.10.E


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top need - pass rush. Dreadful.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 2332
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermore wrote:
drd23 wrote:
nevermore wrote:
Honestly, I don't see how they wouldv'e made (much less won) the Super Bowl this year anyway, so the loss is fine by me. There are way too many issues this team needs to resolve to be a legitimate contender.

If we'd have won this game, the only teams that would have seriously worried me in the AFC would have been the Pats (who we played close despite Jimmy going down during the game) and the Chiefs assuming they made it. The Raiders are down to their back-up QB or a rookie, same with Miami and Houston sucks.


The big problem was the loss of Jimmy. Even if he had come back, he definitely would not have been 100%.


still, we have play off flacco, we saw what happened in 2012. and even without jimmy this is a solid defense. the only threats in the AFC would be chiefs and patriots. we would've had a very good chance in the post season.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.10.E wrote:
Top need - pass rush. Dreadful.


A couple fine OLB prospects in the mid-first Cool

I agree with you. I think Doom is gone this offseason, so some good young edge to go with Judon will be very nice. I wonder if what the internal reports on Correa are. So weird with how much they hyped him in the preseason. If they thought that OLB was too deep and molded him to an ILB, then they made a real mistake.

(If he declares), there is a prospect with the last name Watt. #justsaying
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.10.E wrote:
Top need - pass rush. Dreadful.


100% agree with this. Besides it being that much harder to find a true shutdown corner in any round, it was painfully obvious on that last drive how old and past their prime Suggs and Doom were. We could definitely use some premier upgrades in the pass rush department. No clue who that is though with where we're likely to be picking.
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bananabucket wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
For years the argument has been, mostly, Peyton V Joe V Brady as the GOAT QB.

Flacco?
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensTillIDie wrote:
M.10.E wrote:
Top need - pass rush. Dreadful.


100% agree with this. Besides it being that much harder to find a true shutdown corner in any round, it was painfully obvious on that last drive how old and past their prime Suggs and Doom were. We could definitely use some premier upgrades in the pass rush department. No clue who that is though with where we're likely to be picking.


Charles Harris and Tim Williams will be the first two to watch. Tim Williams will be an interesting push and pull between Harbs not wanting character risks and Ozzie wanting an Alabama guy Laughing

But, I'm going to keep an eye on Watt's younger brother. He's lanky enough... if he can use the pre draft workout season to get shredded like big bro, then he'll shoot up the board.
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jpeter15


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys want to start a "Dean Pees as a top head coaching option" thread to try to trick someone into taking him off our hands? We already know analysts read the threads, maybe some owners will look into it for ideas.
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpeter15 wrote:
You guys want to start a "Dean Pees as a top head coaching option" thread to try to trick someone into taking him off our hands? We already know analysts read the threads, maybe some owners will look into it for ideas.
Laughing Laughing
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpeter15 wrote:
You guys want to start a "Dean Pees as a top head coaching option" thread to try to trick someone into taking him off our hands? We already know analysts read the threads, maybe some owners will look into it for ideas.


Honestly, if the Ravens actually had a good coach who had produced a top ten defense, he'd be an immediate head coaching candidate (like Nolan, Ryan, Lewis, Pagano. Hell, even Caldwell got a HC gig from being just about competent with the offense).

As it is, Pees producing a number one defense doesn't seem to have anyone talking. Just our luck, although I guess it's because everyone knows he's not actually that good.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
jpeter15 wrote:
You guys want to start a "Dean Pees as a top head coaching option" thread to try to trick someone into taking him off our hands? We already know analysts read the threads, maybe some owners will look into it for ideas.


Honestly, if the Ravens actually had a good coach who had produced a top ten defense, he'd be an immediate head coaching candidate (like Nolan, Ryan, Lewis, Pagano. Hell, even Caldwell got a HC gig from being just about competent with the offense).

As it is, Pees producing a number one defense doesn't seem to have anyone talking. Just our luck, although I guess it's because everyone knows he's not actually that good.


Same thing with Mattison. He had two years of statistically good defenses.. and basically got pushed out the door.

Well, it was a close game that came down to the end. Can't be too upset in that facet.

I'm in agreement with the others. Suggs needs to not be a real starting option. He doesn't have the stamina, burst, or consistency anymore. But I'm afraid that as long as he's on the team he will be out there in the same role regardless of performance on the field. Like what happened with Lewis and Reed. Dumervil has to be gone, can't see the team keeping him around with the way he's looked this season. I have no real hesitations about Judon becoming a starter or a guy who takes a lot of snaps. He makes plays and has the frame and body to hold up in the NFL.

If/when Pees is still around and he adamantly clings to having a SAM backer playing a bunch of snaps then a real upgrade over McClellan is needed. That's a pretty sore and limited spot on the defense as it is. I would almost rather get someone more well-rounded there than adding another pass-rush specialist. Move Za'Darius back to that role. Actually play Correa there. If a passer rusher with bona fide number one potential falls in the draft then sure go that route, but otherwise I would rather look to corner or interior offensive line in the first round. Maybe safety too.

And I say draft because free agency won't be an option for any of those positions given the money thrown around there. Even if the Ravens had cap space to play with that is. They don't. I still can't imagine Williams not being brought back and then there's Wagner, Juszczyk, and Orr.
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Danand


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensDefense3 wrote:
i can't blame the defense that much. we were without jimmy. the offense had a chance to end the game and they didn't.


The offense did exactly that, twice, and the defense just collapsed and give up a combined 21 points in what was a total 5 minutes and 30 seconds.

We failed on defense, and on offense, but the bad defense is what caused the loss.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
jpeter15 wrote:
You guys want to start a "Dean Pees as a top head coaching option" thread to try to trick someone into taking him off our hands? We already know analysts read the threads, maybe some owners will look into it for ideas.


Honestly, if the Ravens actually had a good coach who had produced a top ten defense, he'd be an immediate head coaching candidate (like Nolan, Ryan, Lewis, Pagano. Hell, even Caldwell got a HC gig from being just about competent with the offense).

As it is, Pees producing a number one defense doesn't seem to have anyone talking. Just our luck, although I guess it's because everyone knows he's not actually that good.


Same thing with Mattison. He had two years of statistically good defenses.. and basically got pushed out the door.

Well, it was a close game that came down to the end. Can't be too upset in that facet.

I'm in agreement with the others. Suggs needs to not be a real starting option. He doesn't have the stamina, burst, or consistency anymore. But I'm afraid that as long as he's on the team he will be out there in the same role regardless of performance on the field. Like what happened with Lewis and Reed. Dumervil has to be gone, can't see the team keeping him around with the way he's looked this season. I have no real hesitations about Judon becoming a starter or a guy who takes a lot of snaps. He makes plays and has the frame and body to hold up in the NFL.

If/when Pees is still around and he adamantly clings to having a SAM backer playing a bunch of snaps then a real upgrade over McClellan is needed. That's a pretty sore and limited spot on the defense as it is. I would almost rather get someone more well-rounded there than adding another pass-rush specialist. Move Za'Darius back to that role. Actually play Correa there. If a passer rusher with bona fide number one potential falls in the draft then sure go that route, but otherwise I would rather look to corner or interior offensive line in the first round. Maybe safety too.

And I say draft because free agency won't be an option for any of those positions given the money thrown around there. Even if the Ravens had cap space to play with that is. They don't. I still can't imagine Williams not being brought back and then there's Wagner, Juszczyk, and Orr.


I very much agree, and I hope we begin to use Suggs in McClellans role. Some of us talked about mid season how it was clear, that we have to get younger. Having Suggs, Webb and Weddle as the "old" veterans should be more than enough.

Although we could use a receiving option as well after last nights no hands no feet show which also cost us point, my top 3 are still Cornerback, OC and pass rush.
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given our cap situation and needs, looking at our list of free agents I could easily see us letting go of everyone with the exception of Brandon Williams and MAYBE Juice; I'm not sure what a guy who's now widely considered the #1 FB in the league would go for.

With that said, as someone else mentioned, while not a priority like some other positions, we can still stand to upgrade our receiving corps. So happy trash Aiken is an UFA. With him likely gone and Smith retiring, I am left with very little confidence in Wallace, Perriman and Moore at the moment. Given his recent comments, if he were willing to take a discount I'd love to try and bring a physical presence in like Brandon Marshall.

And character/personality concerns aside, we need to start taking some risks on guys. Harbaugh and Ozzie have been trying way too hard to bring in "their" type of guys ever since Ray/Ed retired and the whole Ray Rice fiasco. We're well past all of that now. We need real voices again in the locker room and guys who are actually willing to hold each other accountable and help lead the team. Like, just listening to the post game comments was so disheartening. I'm sure a lot was said in private, but you almost get the feeling these guys are delusional the way week in and week out, regardless of the situation, they only have to say yeah we could/should have done x, y and z better; we'll fix it next time. Thats such a loser mentality when its repeated so often, imo.

And this is just me ranting at 4am lol, but I so desperately miss having guys in the secondary that can actually lay the wood. Sure, missed tackles on occasion suck. But sometimes I'd rather have that from time to time with a guy who could come in and lay out a guy like Brown cold on that last possession than Weddle with his "sound" tackling. Not saying I want Weddle gone or anything; just saying I miss having actual heavy hitters on this defense and not all these damn finesse players.
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bananabucket wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
For years the argument has been, mostly, Peyton V Joe V Brady as the GOAT QB.

Flacco?
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Danand


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see us as a finesse teams, especially in terms of tackling where we often don't use sound technique. You can still lay the wood with sound technique.

I hope we find a way to retain Levine, Guy, Wagner, Williams and Juice.

Powers were quite underwhelming, Ducasse will have to move to make room for Yanda. Aiken is just not that good and Steve Smith will retire.

On the current roster, there should be no place for Elam, Beyer and Hurst, so that is 3 more we can cross off the list.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've stated my case before for why I think Williams is gone. You let a player that good with no real flaws (character/injury history) hit UFA, with no viable use of franchise tag and hungry teams that are forced to spend 10s of millions to hit the cap floor....

Ricky Wagner is probably going to get a fat contract too. I wonder if we put Alex Lewis in his spot.

Juice probably earned a couple mil over his contract with the big primetime showing. Merry Christmas to him.

I'd like to see offers to the other guys like Levine and Guy and even Matt Elam. If we stop looking at Elam as the first round bust, he's an athletic, still young player who we may as well continue to try to develop on the cheap.
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