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vikingsrule


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 52612
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:

If I recall correctly, Jennings and Nelson were both drafted in early round two. Just seems to be an argument over semantics if we're discussing a difference of 10-15 draft slots.


Those guys were selected using a single draft pick, the vikes spent 4 picks on one player. That's the difference.
If 1 or 2 of the 4 picks doesn't work out, its just the nature of the draft. But when your 4- pick WR flames out, you're 0-4.

In the case of Nelson, the Packer got an extra 4th for moving back. In the case of Jennings, the Packers got an extra 3rd in the trade with the Pats
So the Packers got better WRs for less draft capital and acquired extra picks in the process. That's smart drafting.
The Packers certainly have their share of whiffs, but you'll never see them spend 4 picks on a 1st round WR.


It certainly worked for the Falcons and Julio Jones. Granted Jones was an elite prospect coming out. One point not being discussed with this trade is Spielmans strategy to obtain first round picks. It's well documented that he prefers that fifth year option if he can move up into round one. Obviously it didn't work out, but it worked out for Harrison Smith and Teddy Bridgewater (granted he had a devastating injury but at least MN can hang onto him for one more year under that fifth year option).
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CWood21


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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 49238
Location: mike23md on the dope sig
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
It certainly worked for the Falcons and Julio Jones. Granted Jones was an elite prospect coming out. One point not being discussed with this trade is Spielmans strategy to obtain first round picks. It's well documented that he prefers that fifth year option if he can move up into round one. Obviously it didn't work out, but it worked out for Harrison Smith and Teddy Bridgewater (granted he had a devastating injury but at least MN can hang onto him for one more year under that fifth year option).


It worked out for the Falcons, because Julio Jones developed into the WR that everyone thought he was. Would we be sitting here praising that move if it didn't? IF he turned out to be Charles Rodgers, we wouldn't be sitting here praising the Falcons for the move. And likewise, if the Browns made any noteworthy picks this trade wouldn't be in the same light. I mean, the Browns had the ability to draft Muhammed Wilkerson (2011 1st), Justin Houston (2011 2nd), Julius Thomas (2011 4th), Harrison Smith (2012 1st), and Josh Norman (2012 4th). I mean, I know that's the most optimistic scenario but how much better would the Falcons be if they had those five instead of Julio Jones? Legitimate question to ask. That's why it's generally a better idea to have more draft picks, because you have more bites at the apple so to speak.

But that also goes back to the whole cost question. What's too much? In order to move up six slots in the 2012 draft, the Vikings gave up their 4th round (98th overall). The Vikings gave up an extra ~6th round pick worth of value, but securing that 5th year option is clearly a priority of Spielman. Likewise, the Vikings moved up 8 spots in the 2014 draft to secure Teddy Bridgewater which cost them their 4th round selection (108th overall). This time, the Vikings came out ahead in trade value. But again, it shows that Spielman has a high value on that 5th year option. It's something I've noted about my belief about Ted that he won't trade out of the first round unless the value is insane.
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PackFan4Life wrote:
I have been pooping like a unicorn for two days and it is freaky.

bkobow05 wrote:
So this is what DCR feels like on Saturdays...
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HorizontoZenith


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 4976
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looked up Latavius Murray's numbers. For some reason I thought he did much better in Oakland.
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DavidatMIZZOU


Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 15982
Location: The ZOU
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:
Just looked up Latavius Murray's numbers. For some reason I thought he did much better in Oakland.


Without looking them up myself, didn't he just have a few monster games and then not much else?
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mistakebytehlak wrote:

My god it must be so terrible to have three teams that consistently make the playoffs

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HorizontoZenith


Joined: 03 Mar 2016
Posts: 4976
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
HorizontoZenith wrote:
Just looked up Latavius Murray's numbers. For some reason I thought he did much better in Oakland.


Without looking them up myself, didn't he just have a few monster games and then not much else?

Yeah. He had two games over 100 yards, but he had 7 games under 50 yards.
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 74236
Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HorizontoZenith wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
HorizontoZenith wrote:
Just looked up Latavius Murray's numbers. For some reason I thought he did much better in Oakland.


Without looking them up myself, didn't he just have a few monster games and then not much else?

Yeah. He had two games over 100 yards, but he had 7 games under 50 yards.
He gets worse as the game goes on. For his career, he averages 4.5 yards per carry in the 1st half but 3.8 in the second. Last year was no different (4.2 and 3.8).

Not a big fan of the kid so I don't think he makes much of a difference for them.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 23494
Location: PGH
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
joeybrowner47 wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything everyone is saying about 1st round receivers being a crapshoot, however sometimes and not often mind you a receiver can make a quarterback better. I'll use randy moss as an example. In his prime all Cunningham and culpepper had to do was launch it as far as they could and randy would do the rest.

How many rings does Randy have ? He played on an 18-0 team and still has no ring. He played on a 15-1 team, no ring.

Moss was an awesome player, but WRs don't win Championships.
And you don't trade 4 draft picks for a WR like Patterson who can't learn the offense or run routes. The vikes spent immense draft capital on a KR.

Meanwhile the Pats took the vike picks and grabbed Jamie Collins and Logan Ryan.

Did the vikes learn from their mistake ?
No, they just spent another 1st on Treadwell who couldn't even crack the starting line-up and according to his coach can't even practice well.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/27/laquon-treadwell-wont-play-until-he-practices-better/
.

I don't think it's so black and white. I think it's fine to take a WR in round 1 if it's a pressing need and you don't have many holes, or if that player is a once in a generation type talent. That might not fit Treadwell, but it's still a fine philosophy.

The Broncos won a championship with 1st round pick Demaryius Thomas. The Seahawks won it and they gave up a 1st and then some for Percy Harvin.
The Steelers won a championship with Santonio Holmes.

In general, it may not be a good idea to take a WR round 1, but it's not going to doom a team for doing so.

I also think you just need to bash your rivals to make yourself feel good and tell yourself how great your team is. I don't care to make this post all about you though. It's just hard to take you very seriously is all.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11741
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
I also think you just need to bash your rivals to make yourself feel good and tell yourself how great your team is. I don't care to make this post all about you though. It's just hard to take you very seriously is all.


What are you even talking about?
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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 23494
Location: PGH
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
I also think you just need to bash your rivals to make yourself feel good and tell yourself how great your team is. I don't care to make this post all about you though. It's just hard to take you very seriously is all.


What are you even talking about?


I didn't come here to discuss other posters. I'll just say this: based on some people's posting history, it's hard to take them seriously. Their posts come off as pathetic to me.

I was like that before but not so much anymore. I think most younger posters here were like that.

With that said, does anybody expect Mike Glennon to be a successful starter in Chicago?
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 74236
Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Brings up other posters*
*Doesn't want to discuss other posters*

Think

k
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gopackgo247


Joined: 20 Jan 2017
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bkobow05 wrote:
*Brings up other posters*
*Doesn't want to discuss other posters*

Think

k



Hmmmmm

Think Think Think
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DavidatMIZZOU


Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 15982
Location: The ZOU
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:

With that said, does anybody expect Mike Glennon to be a successful starter in Chicago?


I don't. Jay Cutler was the best QB in Bears history in all statistical categories, aside from wins. Fun fact: Cutler has the most TD passes at Soldier Field. The second most belongs to Brett Favre. I haven't seen good management from the Bears to give me any inkling that they will do better.
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mistakebytehlak wrote:

My god it must be so terrible to have three teams that consistently make the playoffs

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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1507
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:

I also think you just need to bash your rivals to make yourself feel good and tell yourself how great your team is. I don't care to make this post all about you though. It's just hard to take you very seriously is all.

Nobody takes me seriously and that's fine by me, I'm just another schmoe on a message board. Didn't you get the memo ?

I'm feeling extra magnanimous today so I will give you a free peek under the Green & Gold tent:
Its really a blast being a fan of the 13 Time World Champions Very Happy
.
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packfanfb


Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 1668
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else already tired of seeing a new article every day about how Lang chose between Seattle and Detroit? My God, the Press Gazette came out with another one today.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11741
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:

I didn't come here to discuss other posters. I'll just say this: based on some people's posting history, it's hard to take them seriously. Their posts come off as pathetic to me.

I was like that before but not so much anymore. I think most younger posters here were like that.


interesting
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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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