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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 6544
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texans02 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I want to also add, I LOVED how the fans erupted when Brock was sat down. I stood up in my living and cheered and clapped. My family thought I was crazy, but the happiness I received from that was overwhelming.


Yeah, it had to happen. The first pick was half Brock sailing a pass high, half Fuller pulling his obligatory butterfingers play of the game. The second pick was all Brock.

Worse than that, Brock just hasn't been NFL accurate for a while now. When he's not outright missing throws, they never hit a guy in stride. Most are too high, many are behind the target, etc.

He really needs to get his head together and play better, or prepare for a permanent back-up role.


The Brock signing has been such an obvious disaster, it's as if nobody is paying attention to what another colossal bust of a draft class Rick Smith delivered. Will Fuller's speed certainly is exciting, but with every dropped pass and poorly run route it becomes painfully obvious that we spent a 1st round pick on a player with Ted Ginn ceiling written all over him. Ginn has managed to stick around for a decade, so there are worse comps, but we have the same dilemma the Dolphins did as he was drafted so high he almost has to start at WR, and we don't want to risk that asset where he likely would have most impact which is as a kickoff/punt returner. Ginn eventually got dumped off for a 5th rounder and subsequent 5th WR level salaries where he was appropriately used as a returner and guy you send in a few times a game to keep defenses honest with the deep threat and just be happy with the 2-3 plays he makes per season.

Although he was clearly overdrafted, I think a guy like Fuller can absolutely have a role, but taking a guy like that means you better have some quality route runners and possession guys to round out the receiving corps. Rick and his infatuation with the Big 10 brings in another "project" in QB Braxton Miller who clearly is a player O'Brien has absolutely no use for along with the utterly useless Jaelen Strong who adds dumb & drunk to the Miller/Fuller equation of bad hands, bad routes, & complete lack of awareness. Somehow Mumphrey is still around, probably because he at least knows how to actually play the position and is a good influence in the film room, but unfortunately his skillset was so minimal, he was an afterthought in college and would be better suited as a grad assistant looking towards a coaching career.

Smith then saw fit to add yet another niche player like Tyler Ervin into the mix which might have made some sense if he hadn't already taken 2 returner-types in Miller & Fuller and if we actually had the luxury to add Dexter McCluster-ish thing to the mix, but that house of cards falls when your offense still doesn't have reliable components at WR2, WR3, RB2, QB and an o-line filled with replacement level parts.

That leaves us down to the token Rick Smith garbage late round safety that will flounder around the IR resort / practice squad before inevitably being stuck on the field long enough to remind everyone that safety is actually a position on a football field unlike whatever Fuller, Miller, and Ervin are supposed to be. So much fluff and so little substance, yet again.

Fluker has shown enough to be fine as a 5th round backup, but you know you have a problem when yet again, our last pick seems to have amongst the best chances of sticking around (see also Hal, Griffin, Nolan, Diles). Rick would be a great guy to have around to try and fill out the bottom of rosters and get some late round value but unfortunately he is actually in charge of a 53 man roster, not just churning the bottom 10%.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to tell you folks that I hated the QB signing and that it'll end up a failure. I wanted to be wrong, but my intuition is almost never wrong.

O'Brien has his shortcomings but I never believed he was an advocate of signing osweiller. At least he has that going for him.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admit I was one of the few Texans fans here that loved the signing but even I was tired of his terrible QB play. I thought his tools would be easy for O'Brien to coach and im dead wrong.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texans02 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I want to also add, I LOVED how the fans erupted when Brock was sat down. I stood up in my living and cheered and clapped. My family thought I was crazy, but the happiness I received from that was overwhelming.


Yeah, it had to happen. The first pick was half Brock sailing a pass high, half Fuller pulling his obligatory butterfingers play of the game. The second pick was all Brock.

Worse than that, Brock just hasn't been NFL accurate for a while now. When he's not outright missing throws, they never hit a guy in stride. Most are too high, many are behind the target, etc.

He really needs to get his head together and play better, or prepare for a permanent back-up role.


I disagree. Both picks were Brock's fault. I had to almost mute my tv when the commentators tried to defend Brock acting like it wasn't his fault. He tried throwing a fastball high to Fuller when he could have just made a reasonable lower throw right in his chest. No defender was in front of him.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Brock sits, Rick must quit.
If Brock sits, Rick must quit.
If Brock sits, Rick must quit.
Repeat.

Texan fans and press HAVE GOT to demand accountability and if a 4th straight draft absolutely devoid of production outside 1st round layups haven't been enough to get this fool run out of town, saddling us with a $72 million disaster HAS to be the final straw. Who cares if the owner yet again handed out an extension for being better than the 3 other incompetent franchises in our division - Jeff Fisher got one too and the clamoring for his removal got so loud, they simply couldn't ignore it any longer. Being the tallest midget in our division can no longer be where the bar is set for a franchise still sitting on 2 playoff wins over the Bengals to show for 15 seasons.

I know it's hard to "Booo" a GM the way Texans fans have come to booo every QB in franchise history, but the fans of this team that actually know a shred about how team building works have got to start demanding answers on how a guy who has failed at his job by every possible quantifiable measure of evaluating GM performance continues to be given season after season to force his coach and players to overcome his abject failures. Coaches are regularly fired when one horrendous game or even one playcall encapsulates all that is wrong with a guy and the Brock Osweiler signing HAS to be the last mistake he is permitted to make at our expense.
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PAtexansFAN99


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Texans02 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I want to also add, I LOVED how the fans erupted when Brock was sat down. I stood up in my living and cheered and clapped. My family thought I was crazy, but the happiness I received from that was overwhelming.


Yeah, it had to happen. The first pick was half Brock sailing a pass high, half Fuller pulling his obligatory butterfingers play of the game. The second pick was all Brock.

Worse than that, Brock just hasn't been NFL accurate for a while now. When he's not outright missing throws, they never hit a guy in stride. Most are too high, many are behind the target, etc.

He really needs to get his head together and play better, or prepare for a permanent back-up role.


The Brock signing has been such an obvious disaster, it's as if nobody is paying attention to what another colossal bust of a draft class Rick Smith delivered. Will Fuller's speed certainly is exciting, but with every dropped pass and poorly run route it becomes painfully obvious that we spent a 1st round pick on a player with Ted Ginn ceiling written all over him. Ginn has managed to stick around for a decade, so there are worse comps, but we have the same dilemma the Dolphins did as he was drafted so high he almost has to start at WR, and we don't want to risk that asset where he likely would have most impact which is as a kickoff/punt returner. Ginn eventually got dumped off for a 5th rounder and subsequent 5th WR level salaries where he was appropriately used as a returner and guy you send in a few times a game to keep defenses honest with the deep threat and just be happy with the 2-3 plays he makes per season.

Although he was clearly overdrafted, I think a guy like Fuller can absolutely have a role, but taking a guy like that means you better have some quality route runners and possession guys to round out the receiving corps. Rick and his infatuation with the Big 10 brings in another "project" in QB Braxton Miller who clearly is a player O'Brien has absolutely no use for along with the utterly useless Jaelen Strong who adds dumb & drunk to the Miller/Fuller equation of bad hands, bad routes, & complete lack of awareness. Somehow Mumphrey is still around, probably because he at least knows how to actually play the position and is a good influence in the film room, but unfortunately his skillset was so minimal, he was an afterthought in college and would be better suited as a grad assistant looking towards a coaching career.

Smith then saw fit to add yet another niche player like Tyler Ervin into the mix which might have made some sense if he hadn't already taken 2 returner-types in Miller & Fuller and if we actually had the luxury to add Dexter McCluster-ish thing to the mix, but that house of cards falls when your offense still doesn't have reliable components at WR2, WR3, RB2, QB and an o-line filled with replacement level parts.

That leaves us down to the token Rick Smith garbage late round safety that will flounder around the IR resort / practice squad before inevitably being stuck on the field long enough to remind everyone that safety is actually a position on a football field unlike whatever Fuller, Miller, and Ervin are supposed to be. So much fluff and so little substance, yet again.

Fluker has shown enough to be fine as a 5th round backup, but you know you have a problem when yet again, our last pick seems to have amongst the best chances of sticking around (see also Hal, Griffin, Nolan, Diles). Rick would be a great guy to have around to try and fill out the bottom of rosters and get some late round value but unfortunately he is actually in charge of a 53 man roster, not just churning the bottom 10%.


Haters 'gon hate. I feel like you've called every single first round pick we've taken a bust, or a bad pick at some point or another, but the fact is (over here on the glass half full side of things) Rick Smith never (almost never.. Amobi) WHIFFS in the first round. Mario, Brown, Cushing, Kareem, Watt, Hopkins, Mercilus, K. Johnson, Clowney, all more or less correct picks (at least partial credit should be awarded).

When I look at our team, I see almost everyone taking significant strides. Newton was playing the best he'd ever played, like dominating honestly. SuaFilo might be the best guard in football right now (everyone ought to go back and look at who sprung that game winning Miller TD run, and how pretty it looked). Brown might be the best tackle (arguably playing better than he's ever played). Buoye got better. Demps is getting better. McKinney, Fiedorowicz, Griffin, Hunt, Anderson, Reader, Robert Nelson, Hal, Clowney.. even like Brennan Scarlett, Kamalu, Bullough, Eddie Pleasant, Corey Moore, and even Mumphery.. all improving. That's some good fuggin coaching right there.

Also I'd like to note that whatever we lost when Watt got injured seems to have been adequately compensated for by Clowney. He straight up Watted yesterday, and I expect him to continue to do so.

So, it stands to reason that players like Brock, Fuller, Braxton, Ervin, could all improve in a similar fashion, and I expect that the latter three will, because I have no reason not to considering EVERYONE IS IMPROVING (which means even if those guys don't work out we'll find new guys after the draft to replace them).

The only problem with that line of thinking is that Savage is straight up better than Osweiler, without any real sacrifice in upside. Like I said ALL the way back in TC, if it had been an open competition Savage would have run away with it. I think the mistake they made was underestimating Savage's upside, and dooming him to backup duty so that they could cultivate Osweiler's clearly superior upside (NAAHHT). There's no way Savage isn't better, this offense seems hard af and Savage has been in it for 3 years. And he's just an undeniably better passer, he's got like, very good arm talent. You could see it right away. And in that second right before a QB gets hit, he's also very good. His QB vision is like a 92.

He should've played in the Patriots/Vikings games, but the fact that he didn't makes me feel a little bit more hopeful in that the timing of this switch seems ideal. Not a lot of tape on him now. And us with a real QB is a very dangerous team, everyone knows that (like if we got Andrew Luck we'd be superbowl favorites). If he can put up back to back solid (or as OB would say, "decent") performances to end the season here, then I really think this could be our year...

WE MIGHT GET TO LOSE TO THE PATS IN THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP!!
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PAtexansFAN99


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
If Brock sits, Rick must quit.
If Brock sits, Rick must quit.
If Brock sits, Rick must quit.
Repeat.

Texan fans and press HAVE GOT to demand accountability and if a 4th straight draft absolutely devoid of production outside 1st round layups haven't been enough to get this fool run out of town, saddling us with a $72 million disaster HAS to be the final straw. Who cares if the owner yet again handed out an extension for being better than the 3 other incompetent franchises in our division - Jeff Fisher got one too and the clamoring for his removal got so loud, they simply couldn't ignore it any longer. Being the tallest midget in our division can no longer be where the bar is set for a franchise still sitting on 2 playoff wins over the Bengals to show for 15 seasons.

I know it's hard to "Booo" a GM the way Texans fans have come to booo every QB in franchise history, but the fans of this team that actually know a shred about how team building works have got to start demanding answers on how a guy who has failed at his job by every possible quantifiable measure of evaluating GM performance continues to be given season after season to force his coach and players to overcome his abject failures. Coaches are regularly fired when one horrendous game or even one playcall encapsulates all that is wrong with a guy and the Brock Osweiler signing HAS to be the last mistake he is permitted to make at our expense.


Also, remember.. Smith traded Schaub after the pick six-a-thon, traded Keenum (twice I believe), traded YATES, Fitzpatrick.. and those guys went on to have relative success. Don't be surprised if he's able to trade Brock as well (you can say $72 million all you want, but at the end of the day it's a relatively meager salary with the new salary cap and the nature of new QB contracts).

Hue Jackson might be able to maximize him. Miami. Chicago. SF. AZ (maybe). Redskins, to name a few potential landing spots. Not to mention injuries in training camp that lead to panicky moves (like the Bradford trade), and sure a few of those teams will be picking at the top of the draft, but there's likely only 2 QBs or so that any given team will be willing to pick there, and the other teams that end us picking linemen or whatever will need a band aid to hold them over. Osweiler is an easy sell BECAUSE..

Every QB we've traded since OB has gone on to be MORE successful elsewhere (so you could write off his failures as simply a byproduct of OBs overly complicated offense), AND he's got a WINNING record. He's like a top shelf backup, and a good starter in a number of offenses I'm sure.

AND we'll probably give him to ya.. for like a conditional 7th.

Next year, our defense (if Clowney and Watt can both stay healthy) might be one of the best ever, brought to you by big dumb Rick Smith the dumb idiot-face (also drafted Savage btw..). I'm not so sure we could find someone decidedly better than Rick Smith out there.

Also, here are a few of the picks off the top of my head that were solid (at least partial credit) OUTSIDE of the first round..

Demeco Ryans, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels, Jacoby Jones, Steve Slaton, Connor Barwin, Glover Quin, Derek Newton, Trindon Holliday (on the right track, very near miss), Brooks Reed, TJ Yates, Brandon Brooks, Ryan Griffin, Jared Crick, XSF, Fiedorowicz, Savage, Prosch, Blue (ST ace, and good all around football player, pass pro is underappreciated), and Andre Hal.

And yea, we miss a lot with Devier Posey, Keshawn Martin, Shelley Smith, Kasey Studdard, blablablablabla.. but we easily compensate with those misses with elite post-draft recruiting.

Foster, Buoye, Pleasant, Moore, Bullough, Lamm, Mancz, Hunt, Anderson, Terrance Mitchell (who's starting and playing very well for the Chiefs right now), Robert Nelson (I think he'll be good), and I'm sure there's a bunch I'm forgetting.

And the Smith/OB combo seems to be more effective at drafting than the Smith/Kubiak combo. And it's a team effort. So far, Smith/OB combo has been MONEY! Definitely shouldn't [inappropriate/removed] wittit.
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Texans02


Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
I disagree. Both picks were Brock's fault. I had to almost mute my tv when the commentators tried to defend Brock acting like it wasn't his fault. He tried throwing a fastball high to Fuller when he could have just made a reasonable lower throw right in his chest. No defender was in front of him.


My general hate for Fuller's suspect hands probably biases me.
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Apollo Stallion wrote:
Couldn't we have Gallery Furniture "Saves You Money" day vs. Buffalo where everyone is given a stack of cash to throw as Mario exists the tunnel?


Yes please!
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