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Frustration of a Saints fan & Payton being full of it!!!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

navysaintsfan wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
navysaintsfan wrote:
I've been on this Fire Payton bandwagon for a while. Feel free to join flks.


Yes you have navyman... so what do you think about 2017, will Payton win enough to save his job here?


To put it short and sweet, no. I expect more of the same. We have been waiting years for change from him. Why on earth would I expect it next season? I am done with Sean. Done with Loomis. And honestly, I am emotionally done with this team for right now. I watch the games out of habit and because I generally enjoy football, but watching the Saints I may as well be a fan of another team for the way react. Big Ingram run, 50+ yard TD strike from Brees, Cam jordan Sack funble would ge the same emotional response as an Ingram fumble, overturned positive play, and bonehead INT thrown by Brees.

A general "Eh" and then I engage in rich and complex conversation with my daughter on why Raphael is the most noble of the Ninja Turtles. Much more fun for me.


I completely understand where your coming from... it's almost like with Saints fans like you and I it's really not about making this team a winner only, it's about the hope and excitement a new regime would bring. Payton has been here to long, if he'd be winning his arrogance and bull crap would be tolerable but with a 3rd straight losing season his ways have run its course!!!
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid Iowa wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
the only stat that matters to me when it comes to QB's is the win loss record and championships. I get that football is the ultimate team sport but statistics (particularly these days) don't tell a tire story about a player all the time but and overall win loss record does.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. To my knowledge, Brees has never played defense. His ungodly stats over the last 10 years running are terrific, but you can't pin losses solely on him when the perpetual swiss cheese defenses allows more points than Brees' high flying offenses have.

I get that we want to see championships, and that it is the ultimate marker for a player, but they've got to have help.

And the 2 chances Brees has had, he delivered on the 1st, and delivered on the 2nd until the defense folded like a f'ing lawn chair and sent the 49ers to the Super Bowl, a Super Bowl that would have been at home, and I feel the Saints would have trashed the Ravens.


I get where your coming from and no Brees has not ever played defense, nor did he sign players such as Byrd and Browner, etc but I do look at things as a whole. Right or wrong go back to his first contract ext with the Saints... as it his fault that we were unable to tag Carl Nicks which eventually lead to him departing for Tampa, YES. Was it Brees fault that once he received his mega millions that it in many ways attributed to the decrease of talent of this roster over the next few years... YES! Was Brees right about seeking max dollar from the Saints... depends??? Depends on what's truly important to him.

The thing is I don't have tunnel vision when I look at issues like this, I see it as a whole and I won't allow Brees to have his cake and eat it too. His contract has always been a catch 22 and has limited this front office in the slack they have and how every bad move then becomes magnified. YES Loomis and Payton have made some t Rigel personnel decisions over the last few years but to sit here and say that Brees was merely a victim in this and not a accomplis would be wrong and unfair.

Brees choose the money... he always choose to squeeze every last dollar so despite the moves made around him he must take his share of the blame for the players lost because of it and the limited amount of wiggle room it has caused.

This trio... Loomis, Payton and Brees are all equally credited for the success of 2009 but the ALL deserve equal amount of the blame for where this franchise is now as they ALL played their own particular part in this franchises rise and demise.
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Jlowe22


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Mid Iowa wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
the only stat that matters to me when it comes to QB's is the win loss record and championships. I get that football is the ultimate team sport but statistics (particularly these days) don't tell a tire story about a player all the time but and overall win loss record does.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. To my knowledge, Brees has never played defense. His ungodly stats over the last 10 years running are terrific, but you can't pin losses solely on him when the perpetual swiss cheese defenses allows more points than Brees' high flying offenses have.

I get that we want to see championships, and that it is the ultimate marker for a player, but they've got to have help.

And the 2 chances Brees has had, he delivered on the 1st, and delivered on the 2nd until the defense folded like a f'ing lawn chair and sent the 49ers to the Super Bowl, a Super Bowl that would have been at home, and I feel the Saints would have trashed the Ravens.


I get where your coming from and no Brees has not ever played defense, nor did he sign players such as Byrd and Browner, etc but I do look at things as a whole. Right or wrong go back to his first contract ext with the Saints... as it his fault that we were unable to tag Carl Nicks which eventually lead to him departing for Tampa, YES. Was it Brees fault that once he received his mega millions that it in many ways attributed to the decrease of talent of this roster over the next few years... YES! Was Brees right about seeking max dollar from the Saints... depends??? Depends on what's truly important to him.

The thing is I don't have tunnel vision when I look at issues like this, I see it as a whole and I won't allow Brees to have his cake and eat it too. His contract has always been a catch 22 and has limited this front office in the slack they have and how every bad move then becomes magnified. YES Loomis and Payton have made some t Rigel personnel decisions over the last few years but to sit here and say that Brees was merely a victim in this and not a accomplis would be wrong and unfair.

Brees choose the money... he always choose to squeeze every last dollar so despite the moves made around him he must take his share of the blame for the players lost because of it and the limited amount of wiggle room it has caused.

This trio... Loomis, Payton and Brees are all equally credited for the success of 2009 but the ALL deserve equal amount of the blame for where this franchise is now as they ALL played their own particular part in this franchises rise and demise.


Flacco also took money and that hasn't stopped the Ravens from fielding respectable teams. And Flacco has been much worse than Brees since then. Brees has made his mistakes, but I can't see the logic in blaming him when we've had multiple years of historically bad defense. When he plays badly like he has the last two games, I'll call him out, but I'm not gonna call him out for horrible drafting and free agent signing from the front office.
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Jlowe22


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid Iowa wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
the only stat that matters to me when it comes to QB's is the win loss record and championships. I get that football is the ultimate team sport but statistics (particularly these days) don't tell a tire story about a player all the time but and overall win loss record does.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. To my knowledge, Brees has never played defense. His ungodly stats over the last 10 years running are terrific, but you can't pin losses solely on him when the perpetual swiss cheese defenses allows more points than Brees' high flying offenses have.

I get that we want to see championships, and that it is the ultimate marker for a player, but they've got to have help.

And the 2 chances Brees has had, he delivered on the 1st, and delivered on the 2nd until the defense folded like a f'ing lawn chair and sent the 49ers to the Super Bowl, a Super Bowl that would have been at home, and I feel the Saints would have trashed the Ravens.


You got 2011 and 2012 mixed up. The 49ers beat us, then got to play the Giants t home, who beat them and played the Patriots in the Superbowl.

But yes, had we beaten the 49ers(who had arguably the best defense in the league, and we scored 32 points on them despite committing 5 turnovers) We would have gotten the Giants at home. And while the Giants were hot at that time, no one was gonna beat us in the dome that year. And then playing the Patriots in the superbowl would have been a shootout, and no one was gonna beat us in a shootout, least of all the Patriots' 32 ranked defense.
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navysaintsfan


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2682542-sean-payton-trade-rumors-latest-buzz-speculation-surrounding-saints-hc#

I'll leave this here
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Mid Iowa


Joined: 10 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Mid Iowa wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
the only stat that matters to me when it comes to QB's is the win loss record and championships. I get that football is the ultimate team sport but statistics (particularly these days) don't tell a tire story about a player all the time but and overall win loss record does.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. To my knowledge, Brees has never played defense. His ungodly stats over the last 10 years running are terrific, but you can't pin losses solely on him when the perpetual swiss cheese defenses allows more points than Brees' high flying offenses have.

I get that we want to see championships, and that it is the ultimate marker for a player, but they've got to have help.

And the 2 chances Brees has had, he delivered on the 1st, and delivered on the 2nd until the defense folded like a f'ing lawn chair and sent the 49ers to the Super Bowl, a Super Bowl that would have been at home, and I feel the Saints would have trashed the Ravens.


I get where your coming from and no Brees has not ever played defense, nor did he sign players such as Byrd and Browner, etc but I do look at things as a whole. Right or wrong go back to his first contract ext with the Saints... as it his fault that we were unable to tag Carl Nicks which eventually lead to him departing for Tampa, YES. Was it Brees fault that once he received his mega millions that it in many ways attributed to the decrease of talent of this roster over the next few years... YES! Was Brees right about seeking max dollar from the Saints... depends??? Depends on what's truly important to him.

The thing is I don't have tunnel vision when I look at issues like this, I see it as a whole and I won't allow Brees to have his cake and eat it too. His contract has always been a catch 22 and has limited this front office in the slack they have and how every bad move then becomes magnified. YES Loomis and Payton have made some t Rigel personnel decisions over the last few years but to sit here and say that Brees was merely a victim in this and not a accomplis would be wrong and unfair.

Brees choose the money... he always choose to squeeze every last dollar so despite the moves made around him he must take his share of the blame for the players lost because of it and the limited amount of wiggle room it has caused.

This trio... Loomis, Payton and Brees are all equally credited for the success of 2009 but the ALL deserve equal amount of the blame for where this franchise is now as they ALL played their own particular part in this franchises rise and demise.
I get it, Worm, and you know I always appreciate your viewpoint.

I will say a few things. Agents like Tom Condon will always push the absolute limits at the expense of the team. They really only care about the client (player).

I think it's fair to blame Brees to a point, yet I think the brass has to find better ways of shoring up the loose ends. We can't overlook the fact that Loomis also made some REALLY BAD deals, and really expensive deals during that time that didn't produce. We can look at Byrd, Gallett etc... These guys money easily offset the price of Brees, and their production was/is just eh.

So, what I do, and will always think it boils down to is Payton's trust, or lack thereof, in a true defensive mastermind. Someone he can literally submit to and let them take control.

Because of this phobia, or whatever it is, he's ended up with serving after serving of comfort food. Yeah, it's yummy and easy, but it isn't going to win you a championship.

In short, I agree Brees' contract sure didn't help matters, but we've seen between 28-33 other teams with better defenses, and you can't tell me it all due to money. A great coaching staff can train up just about any player, regardless of pay level, and we've seen the exact opposite with the Saints as a whole. They get high paid guys who drift off into obscurity.
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Mid Iowa


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlowe22 wrote:
Mid Iowa wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
the only stat that matters to me when it comes to QB's is the win loss record and championships. I get that football is the ultimate team sport but statistics (particularly these days) don't tell a tire story about a player all the time but and overall win loss record does.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. To my knowledge, Brees has never played defense. His ungodly stats over the last 10 years running are terrific, but you can't pin losses solely on him when the perpetual swiss cheese defenses allows more points than Brees' high flying offenses have.

I get that we want to see championships, and that it is the ultimate marker for a player, but they've got to have help.

And the 2 chances Brees has had, he delivered on the 1st, and delivered on the 2nd until the defense folded like a f'ing lawn chair and sent the 49ers to the Super Bowl, a Super Bowl that would have been at home, and I feel the Saints would have trashed the Ravens.


You got 2011 and 2012 mixed up. The 49ers beat us, then got to play the Giants t home, who beat them and played the Patriots in the Superbowl.

But yes, had we beaten the 49ers(who had arguably the best defense in the league, and we scored 32 points on them despite committing 5 turnovers) We would have gotten the Giants at home. And while the Giants were hot at that time, no one was gonna beat us in the dome that year. And then playing the Patriots in the superbowl would have been a shootout, and no one was gonna beat us in a shootout, least of all the Patriots' 32 ranked defense.
Yup, you're right, and thanks for the correction. The point still stands, though Wink
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Mid Iowa


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now NFL.com has gotten ahold of the Payton to LA itch.

Today they have an article about it, and why it could work. So now there's more smoke...

......what's funny is they also have an article about "Ron Rivera to LA?"

Sooooo.... My Sister to coach the Saints??
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