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Will these final 4 games determine Payton's future in NOLA?
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What will happen to Payton if the Saints finish 7-9 or worse for a 3rd straight season?
Fired
25%
 25%  [ 2 ]
Traded
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Retained
75%
 75%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 8

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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Will these final 4 games determine Payton's future in NOLA? Reply with quote



Welp… 5-7!

Yep, that's where we sit after ¾ of the season is in the books… 5-7. After all the early season talk of the importance of starting fast out the gate only to limp out to a 0-3 start and don't even get me started on their pathetic performance against the Lions last week at home which was basically a playoff game (however much Payton disagrees) it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that Payton's message simply has gone stale with this team.

5-7 once again to reiterate. What was that that Payton's mentor famously quoted? Oh yeah, “you are what your record says you are”. Well if that's the case then the Saints under Payton simply have been NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the last 3 seasons and 4 out of the last 5! That type of production gets any head coach in the NFL not named Jeff Fisher and Sean Payton fired Super Bowl championship or not.

So… after conning his way to a 5 year 45 million dollar extension in the offseason, Payton's team currently remains a mirror image of what's it's been for the past two seasons. The offense is still tops in the league in statistics but is still one dimensional that puts its defense in bad situations often times. The defense is slightly improved but still sucks for the most part without a defined identity and the Special Teams have taken a step back from bad to atrocious!

So with 7-9 being the bench mark for this club… at 5-7 with 4 games to go against the Bucs (twice) and the Falcons in the season finale who are both fighting for the division lead as well as a trip to Arizona against the ever tough Cardinals, this Saints team is serious danger of falling short of that 7-9 bench mark for the first time in 3 years!!!

Payton signed a 45 MILLION dollar extension this offseason… just to reiterate!!!

Here are some fun facts about this team that we all should keep in mind as we head into the offseason…

1. Despite his professing his love of NOLA and the Saints after signing his new deal, Had Mickey Loomis slightly lowered his compensation price Payton would be in San Francisco right now.

2. Mickey Loomis and not just Sean Payton was at one point ready and willing to move on from each other this past offseason.

3. Payton's new deal does not make him a lock to remain… despite his failure to right the ship here, Payton's offensive genius is still a valuable commodity in the NFL and coach needy teams will line up for the opportunity to pry him out of NOLA. He's a good coach, just not a good fit for the Saints any longer.

4. Bill Parcells (Payton's mentor) advised Payton to leave New Orleans last offseason and one can only surmise that Payton has at least second guessed his decision to stay at some point this year and not heeded Parcells advise.

5. Despite his stellar season, Drew Brees is going to be 38 years old next month and his contract demands a restructure after the 2017 season when he'll be 39 going on 40. At some point Father Time always wins and Payton knows it will be better for him personally to get out a year early than a year to late. Peyton Manning shattered records one year and became a below average quarterback the next. These things happen and Brees isn't immune to getting older and Payton understands this better than most.


5-7… just in case you forgot!

7-9, 7-9 and currently 5-7… that's the record Payton has posted over the last 3 seasons with one of the most elite passing quarterbacks of his era in his prime in a league starving for elite quarterbacks. It's simply ridiculous to continue to refer to Sean Payton as an elite or even good NFL head coach any longer! He is what he is and that's an average NFL head coach and an elite offensive passing game coordinator. There is more to being a Head Coach in the NFL than producing an elite passing game year in and year out and Payton has basically failed at every other aspect of his job outside that.

It's time to move on but will we... What say you???

5-7… 5-7!!!



whodat
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He'll be retained unless some team comes asking about him. I don't think they'll shop him and I don't think he'll try to muscle his way out two years in a row.
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Crickett


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My question is: will the final four games determine Dennis Allen's future in New Orleans?
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
My question is: will the final four games determine Dennis Allen's future in New Orleans?
They shouldn't. He's had a better season and a half than Payton has.
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Mid Iowa


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone ever watch the movie Major League? That's kinda how I feel about this team right now. It's almost like it's a joke so the someone will let them take the team somewhere other than New Orleans.

They'll retain him, unfortunately.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
Crickett wrote:
My question is: will the final four games determine Dennis Allen's future in New Orleans?
They shouldn't. He's had a better season and a half than Payton has.


This is classic non Saints fan thinking... outsiders see the numbers and statistics and can't believe that their is any way that Payton could possibly be the problem and that it's always the defensive coordinators fault. However Saints fans that follow this team on a daily basis understand exactly who Payton is and what he's responsible for. This is why most Saints fans agree that Payton gets a pass far too often and why there is a growing frustration within this fan base towards Saints management.
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Crickett


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
Crickett wrote:
My question is: will the final four games determine Dennis Allen's future in New Orleans?
They shouldn't. He's had a better season and a half than Payton has.


This is classic non Saints fan thinking... outsiders see the numbers and statistics and can't believe that their is any way that Payton could possibly be the problem and that it's always the defensive coordinators fault. However Saints fans that follow this team on a daily basis understand exactly who Payton is and what he's responsible for. This is why most Saints fans agree that Payton gets a pass far too often and why there is a growing frustration within this fan base towards Saints management.


Actually my thinking was that Dennis Allen would be the scapegoat. They can't fire Peyton after the extension they gave him, but after having yet another 7-9 season, they might decide they need to make an example out of someone. After some pretty good draft picks over the past few years like Kikaha and Vonn Bell and some decent free agent signings like Nick Fairley, the Saints defense finally started improving; although from what I saw, they're still fairly inconsistent. But I didn't know if it was enough to prevent Dennis Allen from playing the patsy.

But I guess I made a mistake bringing it up. I'll just take my non-Saints fan self and discuss some other team elsewhere.
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Jlowe22


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
Crickett wrote:
My question is: will the final four games determine Dennis Allen's future in New Orleans?
They shouldn't. He's had a better season and a half than Payton has.


This is classic non Saints fan thinking... outsiders see the numbers and statistics and can't believe that their is any way that Payton could possibly be the problem and that it's always the defensive coordinators fault. However Saints fans that follow this team on a daily basis understand exactly who Payton is and what he's responsible for. This is why most Saints fans agree that Payton gets a pass far too often and why there is a growing frustration within this fan base towards Saints management.


Actually my thinking was that Dennis Allen would be the scapegoat. They can't fire Peyton after the extension they gave him, but after having yet another 7-9 season, they might decide they need to make an example out of someone. After some pretty good draft picks over the past few years like Kikaha and Vonn Bell and some decent free agent signings like Nick Fairley, the Saints defense finally started improving; although from what I saw, they're still fairly inconsistent. But I didn't know if it was enough to prevent Dennis Allen from playing the patsy.

But I guess I made a mistake bringing it up. I'll just take my non-Saints fan self and discuss some other team elsewhere.


The defense is still bad, but they've been improving more than they have in years and I really don't see how anyone in their right minds would fire Dennis Allen. But, as we have seen time and time again, Saints management is not in their right minds.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlowe22 wrote:
Crickett wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
Crickett wrote:
My question is: will the final four games determine Dennis Allen's future in New Orleans?
They shouldn't. He's had a better season and a half than Payton has.


This is classic non Saints fan thinking... outsiders see the numbers and statistics and can't believe that their is any way that Payton could possibly be the problem and that it's always the defensive coordinators fault. However Saints fans that follow this team on a daily basis understand exactly who Payton is and what he's responsible for. This is why most Saints fans agree that Payton gets a pass far too often and why there is a growing frustration within this fan base towards Saints management.


Actually my thinking was that Dennis Allen would be the scapegoat. They can't fire Peyton after the extension they gave him, but after having yet another 7-9 season, they might decide they need to make an example out of someone. After some pretty good draft picks over the past few years like Kikaha and Vonn Bell and some decent free agent signings like Nick Fairley, the Saints defense finally started improving; although from what I saw, they're still fairly inconsistent. But I didn't know if it was enough to prevent Dennis Allen from playing the patsy.

But I guess I made a mistake bringing it up. I'll just take my non-Saints fan self and discuss some other team elsewhere.


The defense is still bad, but they've been improving more than they have in years and I really don't see how anyone in their right minds would fire Dennis Allen. But, as we have seen time and time again, Saints management is not in their right minds.
Growing frustration is an understatement. Laughing if Allen gets fired and Payton is retained (I expect they'll both be retained, for the record) I'll be done with the Saints until Payton is gone. I won't post on the forum until Payton is gone I that happens. I can't describe how done with Payton I am.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
Crickett wrote:
My question is: will the final four games determine Dennis Allen's future in New Orleans?
They shouldn't. He's had a better season and a half than Payton has.


This is classic non Saints fan thinking... outsiders see the numbers and statistics and can't believe that their is any way that Payton could possibly be the problem and that it's always the defensive coordinators fault. However Saints fans that follow this team on a daily basis understand exactly who Payton is and what he's responsible for. This is why most Saints fans agree that Payton gets a pass far too often and why there is a growing frustration within this fan base towards Saints management.


Actually my thinking was that Dennis Allen would be the scapegoat. They can't fire Peyton after the extension they gave him, but after having yet another 7-9 season, they might decide they need to make an example out of someone. After some pretty good draft picks over the past few years like Kikaha and Vonn Bell and some decent free agent signings like Nick Fairley, the Saints defense finally started improving; although from what I saw, they're still fairly inconsistent. But I didn't know if it was enough to prevent Dennis Allen from playing the patsy.

But I guess I made a mistake bringing it up. I'll just take my non-Saints fan self and discuss some other team elsewhere.


No need... we appreciate all who post on here and that wasn't meant as a direct shot at you. It's just frustrating for Saints fans who know that Sean Payton is responsible for the downward spiral of this team while majority of outsiders fail to look beyond the numbers.

Yes Payton is an elite offensive mind (although one deminonal) but as an overall head coach, especially one with personal power he's been a failure.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
He'll be retained unless some team comes asking about him. I don't think they'll shop him and I don't think he'll try to muscle his way out two years in a row.


I wonder if that team could be the Rams. If they finish the season on the probable low note, they're going to need something to try fix the sinking ship. With how much they've lose picks wise in the Goff trade, I'm not they'd be adverse to trading another one for a coach like Payton.

Regardless, I think this franchise needs a new voice. 10 years is a long time for a head coach and as good as Payton is, I think the distractions have really affected how good he is at his job. I think it's high time for a new voice, both at GM and HC.

Unfortunately I feel that until Brees moves on (see: Retire), I think we'll keep Payton and Loomis on unless they want to move and/or we get an offer we can't refuse (2nd round pick or better).
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Mid Iowa


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian Saint wrote:
I wonder if that team could be the Rams.
Payton to LA... then he'd come after Brees so they could walk into the sunset together...... I think I just barfed a little.
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Mid Iowa


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to figure out just what direction my thoughts and comments are going, and why I am defending anyone in the Saints org at this point. And we're ALL suckers!!!!!!

I've gotten crap for "hating" some Saints players, namely Vacarro. I think he's good, and that's about it.

So, now we're saying Allen is doing a good job considering who he's got as personelle, yet we gush over Breaux, Fairly, Jordan, Vacarro, Bell, Rankins etc...

Seems like a lot of talent to me for a lower tier defense. Yet they've done just enough to help us win a few games, so now Allen is good, and/or "better than Payton". Well, guys, Payton is now a garbage coach. TRUTH!!!

Brees, Cooks, Snead, Thomas, Ingram, Unger etc...
Rankins, Vacarro, Jordan, Breaux, Fairly etc... we can all name more.
Is this all really talent? I think so, but our record sure is crap. Is this mediocre and the coaches are actually decent? I sure don't think so.

.......and staring straight down the gun barrel of 5-11, possibly 7-9. Tampa is no joke. Arizona is no joke, and Atlanta...... nothing funny there. 3 out of 4 of these are road games.

This is pathetic, guys. And we've all been sucked into it with a little glimmer of hope here and there.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid Iowa wrote:
Canadian Saint wrote:
I wonder if that team could be the Rams.
Payton to LA... then he'd come after Brees so they could walk into the sunset together...... I think I just barfed a little.
I'd actually be fine with that. It means a fresh start and a boatload of picks for us.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid Iowa wrote:
I'm trying to figure out just what direction my thoughts and comments are going, and why I am defending anyone in the Saints org at this point. And we're ALL suckers!!!!!!

I've gotten crap for "hating" some Saints players, namely Vacarro. I think he's good, and that's about it.

So, now we're saying Allen is doing a good job considering who he's got as personelle, yet we gush over Breaux, Fairly, Jordan, Vacarro, Bell, Rankins etc...

Seems like a lot of talent to me for a lower tier defense. Yet they've done just enough to help us win a few games, so now Allen is good, and/or "better than Payton". Well, guys, Payton is now a garbage coach. TRUTH!!!

Brees, Cooks, Snead, Thomas, Ingram, Unger etc...
Rankins, Vacarro, Jordan, Breaux, Fairly etc... we can all name more.
Is this all really talent? I think so, but our record sure is crap. Is this mediocre and the coaches are actually decent? I sure don't think so.

.......and staring straight down the gun barrel of 5-11, possibly 7-9. Tampa is no joke. Arizona is no joke, and Atlanta...... nothing funny there. 3 out of 4 of these are road games.

This is pathetic, guys. And we've all been sucked into it with a little glimmer of hope here and there.


Your right and the fact is that there are so many flat out "TRUE DIE HARD" Saints fans in this city and elsewhere that feel they owe Payton something because he lead this franchise to their first Super Bowl championship that this orginazation hasn't felt the type of pressure other orginazations feel when they display the type of production this regime has over the last 5 years but I do feel that the tide is turining around Airline DR. Payton and Loomis are in fact beginning to feel some pressure, local media reports are actually starting to challenge these guys and put there feet to the fire. The fact that Brees is getting older and that window is closing is making even the die hards fact facts and while I think Loomis and Payton will get 2017... I truly believe that 2017 will be a playoffs or your out year for Payton.
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