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Garoppolo Asking Price?
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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Location: Boston MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
I read the Schefter report and I think a first and a fourth is high maybe a second and a fifth but I can't see a first for an unproven QB. The report also said the Rams paid for a mediocre QB and that the mystery behind Jimmy is suppose to be some sort of plus. If a team is giving up a first and fourth they don't want mystery they want a proven track record.


As opposed to a 1st and a 3rd for proven QB Paxton Lynch? The Broncos used a 1st on him and traded a 3rd to move up to do it. Its not uncommon either:

Vick cost a 1st and 3rd
Kyle Boller cost a 1st and 2nd
Eli cost 2 1sts and a third
JP Losman cost a 1st and a 2nd
Jason Campbell cost a 1st and 3rd and a 1st and 4th the following year
Jay Cutler cost a 1st and 3rd
Mark Sanchez cost a 1st and 2nd along with 3 players
Tebow cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick

there are more that are even more recent but I got exasperated. Seems pretty in the norm for teams to spend more than a 1st and a 4th for a complete unknown at the pro level.
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1249
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
I read the Schefter report and I think a first and a fourth is high maybe a second and a fifth but I can't see a first for an unproven QB. The report also said the Rams paid for a mediocre QB and that the mystery behind Jimmy is suppose to be some sort of plus. If a team is giving up a first and fourth they don't want mystery they want a proven track record.


As opposed to a 1st and a 3rd for proven QB Paxton Lynch? The Broncos used a 1st on him and traded a 3rd to move up to do it. Its not uncommon either:

Vick cost a 1st and 3rd
Kyle Boller cost a 1st and 2nd
Eli cost 2 1sts and a third
JP Losman cost a 1st and a 2nd
Jason Campbell cost a 1st and 3rd and a 1st and 4th the following year
Jay Cutler cost a 1st and 3rd
Mark Sanchez cost a 1st and 2nd along with 3 players
Tebow cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick

there are more that are even more recent but I got exasperated. Seems pretty in the norm for teams to spend more than a 1st and a 4th for a complete unknown at the pro level.


And how has all that worked out? I get the point I do, and I see the logic in your post but I still have to wonder with the new CBA and the second contract being the player must have contract makes me think teams will think twice about that deal plus having a huge contract for an unproven, Seems the logical thing and cost effective option to to draft a rookie QB you save a pick and a ton of money.

What the article implies is that a team must be willing to sacrifice a 1st a 4th and take a potentially large cap hit for what may or may not be a franchise QB. Will some team pull the trigger I would think so and I think the Pats may find a way to hold onto him. If they are asking that much I can't help but wonder if they believe he is the heir apparent. Damn that would suck having to be the QB to follow up Brady
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iothar


Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 3324
Location: Groton, CT
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
I read the Schefter report and I think a first and a fourth is high maybe a second and a fifth but I can't see a first for an unproven QB. The report also said the Rams paid for a mediocre QB and that the mystery behind Jimmy is suppose to be some sort of plus. If a team is giving up a first and fourth they don't want mystery they want a proven track record.


As opposed to a 1st and a 3rd for proven QB Paxton Lynch? The Broncos used a 1st on him and traded a 3rd to move up to do it. Its not uncommon either:

Vick cost a 1st and 3rd
Kyle Boller cost a 1st and 2nd
Eli cost 2 1sts and a third
JP Losman cost a 1st and a 2nd
Jason Campbell cost a 1st and 3rd and a 1st and 4th the following year
Jay Cutler cost a 1st and 3rd
Mark Sanchez cost a 1st and 2nd along with 3 players
Tebow cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick

there are more that are even more recent but I got exasperated. Seems pretty in the norm for teams to spend more than a 1st and a 4th for a complete unknown at the pro level.


And how has all that worked out? I get the point I do, and I see the logic in your post but I still have to wonder with the new CBA and the second contract being the player must have contract makes me think teams will think twice about that deal plus having a huge contract for an unproven, Seems the logical thing and cost effective option to to draft a rookie QB you save a pick and a ton of money.

What the article implies is that a team must be willing to sacrifice a 1st a 4th and take a potentially large cap hit for what may or may not be a franchise QB. Will some team pull the trigger I would think so and I think the Pats may find a way to hold onto him. If they are asking that much I can't help but wonder if they believe he is the heir apparent. Damn that would suck having to be the QB to follow up Brady


Pats have a commodity they are high on and would like to keep. If an offer of a first and fourth or just a high first it would be enough for them to part with him.

I think they have no problem not trading jimmy g.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
If a team is giving up a first and fourth they don't want mystery they want a proven track record.


Teams take unproven QB's in the 1st round all the time - guys who are much more of a mystery than Garoppolo. Some teams, stupid ones like Denver and Baltimore happily gave up multiple premium picks for the chance at a mystery QB.

I don't really understand the logic some here have. Nobody questions whether or not it makes sense to draft a QB in the 1st. Most even recognize the need or at least understand the thought process behind reaching a little to take a QB in the 1st rather than wait and hope to get him in the 2nd.

I get the contract thing. But I don't think that, in itself, should be much of a hindrance. If you're willing to trade a high 2nd +, you're clearly committing yourself to Garoppolo being your franchise QB. You don't trade pick #36 (or whatever) and then let the guy go at the end of 2017. So it's an investment which requires re-signing him regardless of the compensation you give up.
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Starless


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for context, the Texans traded two second rounders and flipped firsts (equivalent to a high 4th) with the Falcons in 2007 for Matt Schaub.

Here were Matt Schaub's career numbers up to that point:



So the idea that the Pats categorically won't get what they seek for Garoppolo is one that ignores history. There are many QB-needy teams out there.
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 1249
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iothar wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
I read the Schefter report and I think a first and a fourth is high maybe a second and a fifth but I can't see a first for an unproven QB. The report also said the Rams paid for a mediocre QB and that the mystery behind Jimmy is suppose to be some sort of plus. If a team is giving up a first and fourth they don't want mystery they want a proven track record.


As opposed to a 1st and a 3rd for proven QB Paxton Lynch? The Broncos used a 1st on him and traded a 3rd to move up to do it. Its not uncommon either:

Vick cost a 1st and 3rd
Kyle Boller cost a 1st and 2nd
Eli cost 2 1sts and a third
JP Losman cost a 1st and a 2nd
Jason Campbell cost a 1st and 3rd and a 1st and 4th the following year
Jay Cutler cost a 1st and 3rd
Mark Sanchez cost a 1st and 2nd along with 3 players
Tebow cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick

there are more that are even more recent but I got exasperated. Seems pretty in the norm for teams to spend more than a 1st and a 4th for a complete unknown at the pro level.


And how has all that worked out? I get the point I do, and I see the logic in your post but I still have to wonder with the new CBA and the second contract being the player must have contract makes me think teams will think twice about that deal plus having a huge contract for an unproven, Seems the logical thing and cost effective option to to draft a rookie QB you save a pick and a ton of money.

What the article implies is that a team must be willing to sacrifice a 1st a 4th and take a potentially large cap hit for what may or may not be a franchise QB. Will some team pull the trigger I would think so and I think the Pats may find a way to hold onto him. If they are asking that much I can't help but wonder if they believe he is the heir apparent. Damn that would suck having to be the QB to follow up Brady


Pats have a commodity they are high on and would like to keep. If an offer of a first and fourth or just a high first it would be enough for them to part with him.

I think they have no problem not trading jimmy g.


I am not debating if the Pats would take the deal I am debating if an offer like that will even be presented
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
If a team is giving up a first and fourth they don't want mystery they want a proven track record.


Teams take unproven QB's in the 1st round all the time - guys who are much more of a mystery than Garoppolo. Some teams, stupid ones like Denver and Baltimore happily gave up multiple premium picks for the chance at a mystery QB.

I don't really understand the logic some here have. Nobody questions whether or not it makes sense to draft a QB in the 1st. Most even recognize the need or at least understand the thought process behind reaching a little to take a QB in the 1st rather than wait and hope to get him in the 2nd.

I get the contract thing. But I don't think that, in itself, should be much of a hindrance. If you're willing to trade a high 2nd +, you're clearly committing yourself to Garoppolo being your franchise QB. You don't trade pick #36 (or whatever) and then let the guy go at the end of 2017. So it's an investment which requires re-signing him regardless of the compensation you give up.


Agreed II can see a 2nd and 5th nut a first and 4th just seems high to me when it couples the contract
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young juice


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What teams NEED a QB and would pay that price? Off the top of my head teams that NEED a QB are:

Niners - Kap is gone and Gabert who knows if he is a starter
Bears - Cutler has always sucked and I dont see Hoyer as a starting QB

Jags and Browns don't really NEED QBs with RG3 and Bortles

Bills and Jets are in our division don't see them getting him.

Broncos and Texans seem set on their QBs

Also with Romo probably being available how many teams are interested?
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young juice wrote:
What teams NEED a QB and would pay that price? Off the top of my head teams that NEED a QB are:

Niners - Kap is gone and Gabert who knows if he is a starter
Bears - Cutler has always sucked and I dont see Hoyer as a starting QB

Jags and Browns don't really NEED QBs with RG3 and Bortles

Bills and Jets are in our division don't see them getting him.

Broncos and Texans seem set on their QBs


Also with Romo probably being available how many teams are interested?


Laughing

Bortles and Griffin are awful. As for Houston, Osweiler clearly isn't the guy and Savage has proved nothing. If O'Brien is fired, I expect they'll look at QB's. Denver has Lynch but who knows what they think of him. Siemian clearly isn't the answer. I would think they will be in the market for a veteran, probably not Garoppolo
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect the Broncos to get Romo as a bridge until Lynch is ready (if ever). I don't think their eval of Siemian will be any better than mine (he sucks) but they're not going to give up so quickly on a guy they moved up to draft in the first round.

The Texans might just go ahead and eat the cap hit and release Osweiler unless he surprises everyone and lights it up in the playoffs.

The Browns I still see as Garoppolo's most likely destination.

The Jags appear to be stuck with Bortles for at least another year.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:


The Jags appear to be stuck with Bortles for at least another year.


Depends a lot on the coach (and GM, if they fire Caldwell)
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biggbrd


Joined: 18 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

young juice wrote:
What teams NEED a QB and would pay that price? Off the top of my head teams that NEED a QB are:

Niners - Kap is gone and Gabert who knows if he is a starter
Bears - Cutler has always sucked and I dont see Hoyer as a starting QB

Jags and Browns don't really NEED QBs with RG3 and Bortles

Bills and Jets are in our division don't see them getting him.

Broncos and Texans seem set on their QBs

Also with Romo probably being available how many teams are interested?


He isn't.
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young juice


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Houston I think is stick with Brock that big contract.

I think most of the teams I mentioned would draft a QB.

Best bet IMO of trades for Jimmy is SF or Chi.
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1ForTheThumb


Joined: 06 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schefter just said on WEEI that he firmly believes the Patriots will get a 1st for Jimmy, minimum.
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1ForTheThumb wrote:
Schefter just said on WEEI that he firmly believes the Patriots will get a 1st for Jimmy, minimum.


Let's just all believe it when it happens. Point being, what Adam Schefter says means nothing.
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