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Garoppolo Asking Price?
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wahaha wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
wahaha wrote:
He won't be traded, BB will give him a long term contract.


So Brady is retiring?


No, he is not.

Both of them know that each gives the other the best chance to get 5th ring, but what happened in Sep, 2014 may happen again anytime.

If they get 5th ring in contract time, both BB and Brady have other thing to prove, that is, they can win without each other.

If they fail to get 5th ring, Brady will be let go. (Browns or 49ers)


Just so I understand...

Tom Brady, a top 3 QB of all time, who is playing at an extremely high level, is going to be released because of a bad month he had 2 years ago when his OL was in shambles.

The Patriots, because they fear Tom Brady going bad, are going to cripple their salary cap and take a massive dead money charge because Tom Brady could go bad quickly and turn the position over to a kid with 6 good quarters of ball in his career.

Tom Brady, in turn, will go and sign with one of the worst teams in the league so that he finishes his career in misery.

Makes a lot of sense, I have to say. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Quote:

The biggest threat to SB run this season is Giants, their defense suddenly becomes so great, especially pass rush, and their offense is capable of scoring 24+ pts against pats D. No QB in NFC knows how to protect the balls (besides Eli in playoff).


I think this is a weird attempt at trolling. Clearly, the Giants are not the biggest threat to the Pats. Without Coughlin, there's nothing for the Pats to fear from New York beyond them being a pretty good team and all pretty good teams present challenges in the playoffs.
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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Location: The worst of all possible realities
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Giants won't make the playoffs.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
The Giants won't make the playoffs.


Doubt they lose out
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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Location: The worst of all possible realities
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
The Giants won't make the playoffs.


Doubt they lose out
They wouldn't have to.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
The Giants won't make the playoffs.


Doubt they lose out
They wouldn't have to.


It will take a lot for them to miss the playoffs at 10-6. Especially if they win today.
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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Location: The worst of all possible realities
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
The Giants won't make the playoffs.


Doubt they lose out
They wouldn't have to.


It will take a lot for them to miss the playoffs at 10-6. Especially if they win today.
Packers own the h2h tiebreaker against them. And if they lose week 17 to Washington, so will they.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
The Giants won't make the playoffs.


Doubt they lose out
They wouldn't have to.


It will take a lot for them to miss the playoffs at 10-6. Especially if they win today.
Packers own the h2h tiebreaker against them. And if they lose week 17 to Washington, so will they.


There's about one scenario where the Giants win today, end 10-6 and miss the playoffs. You need:

Green Bay to win out
Washington to win out
Detroit to beat Dallas next week
Giants to lose to both Philadelphia and Washington

The first two, I can buy. The Lions beating Dallas and Philadelphia beating New York seems unlikely. One of those might happen, but both? Not likely IMO
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Starless


Joined: 05 Jan 2015
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Location: The worst of all possible realities
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
The Giants won't make the playoffs.


Doubt they lose out
They wouldn't have to.


It will take a lot for them to miss the playoffs at 10-6. Especially if they win today.
Packers own the h2h tiebreaker against them. And if they lose week 17 to Washington, so will they.


There's about one scenario where the Giants win today, end 10-6 and miss the playoffs. You need:

Green Bay to win out
Washington to win out
Detroit to beat Dallas next week
Giants to lose to both Philadelphia and Washington

The first two, I can buy. The Lions beating Dallas and Philadelphia beating New York seems unlikely. One of those might happen, but both? Not likely IMO
Presuming a Giants win today seems... well, presumptuous.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Starless wrote:
The Giants won't make the playoffs.


Doubt they lose out
They wouldn't have to.


It will take a lot for them to miss the playoffs at 10-6. Especially if they win today.
Packers own the h2h tiebreaker against them. And if they lose week 17 to Washington, so will they.


There's about one scenario where the Giants win today, end 10-6 and miss the playoffs. You need:

Green Bay to win out
Washington to win out
Detroit to beat Dallas next week
Giants to lose to both Philadelphia and Washington

The first two, I can buy. The Lions beating Dallas and Philadelphia beating New York seems unlikely. One of those might happen, but both? Not likely IMO
Presuming a Giants win today seems... well, presumptuous.


I'm not presuming it, but at the onset of this I said

Quote:
It will take a lot for them to miss the playoffs at 10-6. Especially if they win today.


If they lose today, obviously, it's a little easier for them to miss the playoffs at 10-6 though I still think it's unlikely.
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Starless


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame you for this, Murt! Laughing
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
BillsGuy82 wrote:
This is a bad off season to deal Garropolo. I can see 4-5 QB's going in 1st 2 rounds this draft and guys like Romo, Cutler etc will be available as stop gaps.

I could see a 1st, but thats about the most you'll get


QB's will go early in the draft because they usually do, even if they're not great prospects. This is an especially bad class of QB prospects though.

As for Cutler Laughing Laughing come on. Let's be serious.

Romo might be a better get than Garoppolo but only for a team in a very specific situation. I don't think Romo suitors and Garoppolo suitors will overlap much.

That said, I'm not convinced the Pats trade Garoppolo this offseason anyway. In fact, I think that, right now, it's more likely than not that they keep him.


Just catching up on this now, but I'll bite on the bolded. I think this QB class could potentially be really good IF a couple of underclassmen decide to declare early. Trubisky is the real deal, and Kaaya showed a solid handle a pro style offense this year. I think both would probably benefit from another year in school (developmentally, not just to avoid going to Cleveland), but if they declare they're blue chip prospects to me. Not sold on Watson and especially not Kizer in the 1st, but there are some mid round guys I really like, most of all Baker Mayfield.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhunt2402 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
BillsGuy82 wrote:
This is a bad off season to deal Garropolo. I can see 4-5 QB's going in 1st 2 rounds this draft and guys like Romo, Cutler etc will be available as stop gaps.

I could see a 1st, but thats about the most you'll get


QB's will go early in the draft because they usually do, even if they're not great prospects. This is an especially bad class of QB prospects though.

As for Cutler Laughing Laughing come on. Let's be serious.

Romo might be a better get than Garoppolo but only for a team in a very specific situation. I don't think Romo suitors and Garoppolo suitors will overlap much.

That said, I'm not convinced the Pats trade Garoppolo this offseason anyway. In fact, I think that, right now, it's more likely than not that they keep him.


Just catching up on this now, but I'll bite on the bolded. I think this QB class could potentially be really good IF a couple of underclassmen decide to declare early. Trubisky is the real deal, and Kaaya showed a solid handle a pro style offense this year. I think both would probably benefit from another year in school (developmentally, not just to avoid going to Cleveland), but if they declare they're blue chip prospects to me. Not sold on Watson and especially not Kizer in the 1st, but there are some mid round guys I really like, most of all Baker Mayfield.


Mayfield is returning to school

Kaaya, I'm not sold on as a prospect this year. He definitely needs another year in school before I'm ready to say he's a potential starter in the NFL

Trubisky has flashed the talent you like to see from an elite prospect but it's a pretty small sample in a very simple offense. A lot of his throws are quick hitters or designed screens where he's not reading the defense. I don't trust QB prospects who haven't had to consistently cycle through progressions at the collegiate level. Obviously, a lot of QB prospects come out of school with that issue given the number of simple college schemes, but it's always a drawback IMO.

Watson and Kizer don't do anything for me.

I think this will be a year where teams talk themselves into taking these guys in the 1st simply because that's been the way the NFL is. But none of these guys are especially good prospects IMO. I'm sure one or two will be useful starters or better but they're all pretty shaky as far as true 1st round talent goes and I think Garoppolo as a prospect - let alone as a 3rd year pro - would have been viewed similarly or better than all 4 of Watson/Kizer/Kaaya/Trubisky. He had a lot of the same issues (plus a quality of competition problem).

There have been so many QB prospects overdrafted in the past 10-15 years that I expect the trend will continue. It doesn't, IMO, mean that this is a good crop of prospects. I think it will end up being like 2011 where you have a bunch of reaches on obviously majorly flawed prospects like Locker, Gabbert and Ponder (I'd also throw Newton in that category FWIW)
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoot I missed that on Mayfield. I'd really love to see us nab him in the 3rd or 4th next year, assuming Garoppolo will be somewhere else in 2018. He could very well play himself out of that range next season, but QBs with his makeup are routinely undervalued.

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but you have to consider the flip side of Garoppolo being a 3rd year player; he's only under team control for another year and likely will require a massive dollar/cap commitment to lock him up long-term or if needed the franchise tag. Despite the extremely high-risk nature of 1st round QBs, teams will convince themselves on a guy and mentally prefer getting 5 years of "their guy" on the rookie pay scale than getting a surer thing for only 1.

Ultimately I think that logic is hilariously bad. If you find a really good QB you're at such an advantage over so many teams in the league and it should hardly matter at all in that calculus how many years are left on a contract. But a lot of teams are overly protective of their draft capital and generally pretty bad at the whole roster management thing.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Jimmy G is traded the team that makes a lot of sense to me is Chicago. They are done with Cutler and will need a QB he played his college ball in Ill, is from Ill they will draft around 4 to 7, they are in the NFC it just seems to make sense to me.
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1ForTheThumb


Joined: 06 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The QB class this year is garbage. You can't tell me you'd take anyone over Jimmy at this point.

First or bust.
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