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cortes02
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 2602
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 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| AkronsWitness wrote: | Soo what your telling me is that signing a backup to a deal or trading for one to be your franchise level guy has only worked out in Alex Smith and Brett Favres case over the 10000 times it has happened with Kolb, Cassell, Osweiler, ect?
No...thank...you |
Does Alex Smith even really count in the "worked out" category? He's winning games in KC now but he hasn't WON a Super Bowl. I guess I would consider working out meaning that the QB you traded for wins a Super Bowl for you. It looks like Brett Farve might be the ONLY case of this happening so far. I'll pass on Garoppolo. I'd much rather draft our own guy.
Peace!!!
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duke2056
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9034
Location: Cleveland area
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| cortes02 wrote: | | AkronsWitness wrote: | Soo what your telling me is that signing a backup to a deal or trading for one to be your franchise level guy has only worked out in Alex Smith and Brett Favres case over the 10000 times it has happened with Kolb, Cassell, Osweiler, ect?
No...thank...you |
Does Alex Smith even really count in the "worked out" category? He's winning games in KC now but he hasn't WON a Super Bowl. I guess I would consider working out meaning that the QB you traded for wins a Super Bowl for you. It looks like Brett Farve might be the ONLY case of this happening so far. I'll pass on Garoppolo. I'd much rather draft our own guy.
Peace!!! |
For the people saying "it has hardly every happened" regarding trading for a QB and being very successful............
Well, what percentage of the time does DRAFTING a QB make a team successful? Teams draft QBs to be the man a whole hell of a lot more than teams trade for QBs to be the man.
If they think he is a good QB, then go get him. I personally don't think he is all that special, but if they do, then by all means go for it. I can easily see our FO doing this considering there is crap available in the draft and they can't go 1-15 forever and keep their jobs.
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3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds. |
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sdrawkcab321
Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 35803
Location: Cleveland
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| AkronsWitness wrote: | Soo what your telling me is that signing a backup to a deal or trading for one to be your franchise level guy has only worked out in Alex Smith and Brett Favres case over the 10000 times it has happened with Kolb, Cassell, Osweiler, ect?
No...thank...you |
Finding a franchise qb is insanely hard to do anywhere. Draft trade FA. You don't not trade for someone just because a lot of other guys didn't work out. There's been a lot more busts through the draft than there have been through trade. That doesn't mean you should never draft someone again.
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| LETSGOBROWNIES wrote: | | sdraw was right. |
2016 Adopt A Brown: Al Saunders |
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buno67
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40996
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I want to narrow it down to how many back up QBs have been trade for by a team with an offensive minded Coach? To me it seems like you always see the defensivr minded Coaches do that for quick fixes.
Also with the Browns facing the Pats this past season they had the game film and had to break down Jimmy Gs..So if the Browsn trade for him it's cause Hue likes him or sees potential with them |
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duke2056
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 9034
Location: Cleveland area
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| Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Say the Pats end up with pick 30.
Pick 12
for
Pick 30 and JG
I am not really in the camp that wants JG, but if they do want him, and they are willing to spend 1st round value for him, this would represent 1st round value.
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3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds. |
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HanShotFirst
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 501
Location: Mos Eisley Cantina
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hello again everyone.
I would compare the trade of Garoppolo to the trade of Matt Schaub or of the Sam Bradford trade last year. The old trade value chart is not perfect but it gives an amateur like me a starting point to analyze this type of trade. Both trades involved point totals around 900 for the value of the QB. Personally I would want more draft picks not fewer. A trade such as this might satisfy that:
NE gets: Cleveland pick 1 (12)
Cle gets: Garoppolo, NE pick 3 (65 our former pick) and NE's 2018 2nd round pick.
The chance of finding an NFL starter is greatest in the first round. The chance is only slightly less for the second and third round. Beginning with the fourth their is a exponential decrease in chance making it an unlikely but possible source for starters. This trade would present a reasonable option to add between 2 and 3 starters (including a QB) while giving up the chance for one starter.
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HanShotFirst is not a topical medication or food product and is not to be taken internally or seriously. |
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MWil23
Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 6433
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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I still wish one of the following would happen instead of the Browns trading for Jimmy G:
*They sign a disgruntled Tyrod Taylor
*They offer pick #12 for Cousins, who the Redskins haven't appeared to value as of yet, contingent upon him signing a multi year deal.
I know, neither is likely to happen...but I'd try it. 
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HanShotFirst
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 501
Location: Mos Eisley Cantina
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| MWil23 wrote: | I still wish one of the following would happen instead of the Browns trading for Jimmy G:
*They sign a disgruntled Tyrod Taylor
*They offer pick #12 for Cousins, who the Redskins haven't appeared to value as of yet, contingent upon him signing a multi year deal.
I know, neither is likely to happen...but I'd try it. |
I like the Tyrod Taylor addition as well. Buffalo supposedly will trade (or cut!) him. He seems like his career is still in ascension and could settle into a better than average starter - without costing the caliber of pick the Browns will need to complete the rest of their roster.
Cousins might be the type of QB who only performs in the right offense but it has crossed my mind that both Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson are from the Marvin Lewis coaching tree and likely have similarities between them. If other organizations devalue Cousins as a system QB it might make the price low enough for a trade - maybe the 12th overall and a conditional pick in 2018?
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tbone32
Joined: 25 Nov 2016
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| HanShotFirst wrote: | Hello again everyone.
I would compare the trade of Garoppolo to the trade of Matt Schaub or of the Sam Bradford trade last year. The old trade value chart is not perfect but it gives an amateur like me a starting point to analyze this type of trade. Both trades involved point totals around 900 for the value of the QB. Personally I would want more draft picks not fewer. A trade such as this might satisfy that:
NE gets: Cleveland pick 1 (12)
Cle gets: Garoppolo, NE pick 3 (65 our former pick) and NE's 2018 2nd round pick.
The chance of finding an NFL starter is greatest in the first round. The chance is only slightly less for the second and third round. Beginning with the fourth their is a exponential decrease in chance making it an unlikely but possible source for starters. This trade would present a reasonable option to add between 2 and 3 starters (including a QB) while giving up the chance for one starter. |
Cleveland still has their own 3rd rd. pick #65. Starting this year you're allowed to trade compensatory picks, therefore Alex Mack's deal with the Falcons netted us what will be a 3rd round comp. pick (somewhere in the #90s) that goes to NE. |
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HanShotFirst
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 501
Location: Mos Eisley Cantina
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| tbone32 wrote: | | HanShotFirst wrote: | Hello again everyone.
I would compare the trade of Garoppolo to the trade of Matt Schaub or of the Sam Bradford trade last year. The old trade value chart is not perfect but it gives an amateur like me a starting point to analyze this type of trade. Both trades involved point totals around 900 for the value of the QB. Personally I would want more draft picks not fewer. A trade such as this might satisfy that:
NE gets: Cleveland pick 1 (12)
Cle gets: Garoppolo, NE pick 3 (65 our former pick) and NE's 2018 2nd round pick.
The chance of finding an NFL starter is greatest in the first round. The chance is only slightly less for the second and third round. Beginning with the fourth their is a exponential decrease in chance making it an unlikely but possible source for starters. This trade would present a reasonable option to add between 2 and 3 starters (including a QB) while giving up the chance for one starter. |
Cleveland still has their own 3rd rd. pick #65. Starting this year you're allowed to trade compensatory picks, therefore Alex Mack's deal with the Falcons netted us what will be a 3rd round comp. pick (somewhere in the #90s) that goes to NE. |
Thanks for the information - I did not realize. That makes it more confusing that NE would choose to give away a central player on defense when they have a clear path to the Super Bowl and Brady gets closer to retirement. Since they would have been awarded a 2018 third round pick if Jaime Collins had left, the only benefit is that they received a third round pick one year early... but at the price of potentially diminishing their 2017 defense.
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brownie man
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 8232
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:03 am Post subject: |
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https://youtu.be/dUI6YmBkj1w
Highlight tape of JG vs Miami.
Honestly he doesn't look any better of a player than Cody Kessler can become. He plays with a talented offense with a solid o line in an established system.
He doesn't make amazing plays, is pretty accurate, and takes what the defensive gives him.
To make he's the same player as Cody Kessler. You pull up Kessler's game vs Miami and it looks similar.
I'm not trading anything more than a 4th for JG. |
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candyman93
Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59118
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| brownie man wrote: | https://youtu.be/dUI6YmBkj1w
Highlight tape of JG vs Miami.
Honestly he doesn't look any better of a player than Cody Kessler can become. He plays with a talented offense with a solid o line in an established system.
He doesn't make amazing plays, is pretty accurate, and takes what the defensive gives him.
To make he's the same player as Cody Kessler. You pull up Kessler's game vs Miami and it looks similar.
I'm not trading anything more than a 4th for JG. |
He's got a stronger arm than Kessler which is a big deal. He's also bigger. Those 2 things are the only reason why I can't see Cody having consistent success as opposed to Jimmy. |
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brownie man
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 8232
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| candyman93 wrote: | | brownie man wrote: | https://youtu.be/dUI6YmBkj1w
Highlight tape of JG vs Miami.
Honestly he doesn't look any better of a player than Cody Kessler can become. He plays with a talented offense with a solid o line in an established system.
He doesn't make amazing plays, is pretty accurate, and takes what the defensive gives him.
To make he's the same player as Cody Kessler. You pull up Kessler's game vs Miami and it looks similar.
I'm not trading anything more than a 4th for JG. |
He's got a stronger arm than Kessler which is a big deal. He's also bigger. Those 2 things are the only reason why I can't see Cody having consistent success as opposed to Jimmy. |
Honestly it's not much stronger though, and he's about an inch taller at 6'2. That minimal physical difference.
I think Cody could add 10 pounds within a year and still play, and he's still got the potential to increase arm strength some. JG is overrated Kessler after a few years in this system would look just as good basically. |
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candyman93
Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59118
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| brownie man wrote: | | candyman93 wrote: | | brownie man wrote: | https://youtu.be/dUI6YmBkj1w
Highlight tape of JG vs Miami.
Honestly he doesn't look any better of a player than Cody Kessler can become. He plays with a talented offense with a solid o line in an established system.
He doesn't make amazing plays, is pretty accurate, and takes what the defensive gives him.
To make he's the same player as Cody Kessler. You pull up Kessler's game vs Miami and it looks similar.
I'm not trading anything more than a 4th for JG. |
He's got a stronger arm than Kessler which is a big deal. He's also bigger. Those 2 things are the only reason why I can't see Cody having consistent success as opposed to Jimmy. |
Honestly it's not much stronger though, and he's about an inch taller at 6'2. That minimal physical difference.
I think Cody could add 10 pounds within a year and still play, and he's still got the potential to increase arm strength some. JG is overrated Kessler after a few years in this system would look just as good basically. |
I do not see what you're seeing. You like Kizer because of his great arm strength (which is accurate). However, how do you not see a significant difference between Kessler and Jimmy G? |
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28486
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I also see Jimmy G as having a noticeably better arm than Kessler. And I like Kessler.
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