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Ron Rivera has got to go
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Cypher


Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 2866
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
I don't mind bringing Rivera back for another year. I don't think he's a good coach, but we can (obviously) win with him. I'm just not sure we can do it consistently. I would never blame a coach for things that he simply can't control - our lack of pass rush, for example. Hell, the fact that we rank so highly in sacks this year (top 3 I think?) is a testament to how good our defensive coaching is. Short and Addison are the only good, consistent pass rushers on our team and the latter is situational. That our secondary overachieves every year is again a testament to our coaching.

But the poor clock management and basic head coaching responsibilities, stuff like that, is tiring.


It's kind of ironic. Rivera is inconsistent, yet so is our entire offense.

One of the most frustrating things is watching our offense get up to the line with like 6 seconds, and Cam is already clapping for a snap. Our offense has zero rhythm about 50% of the time and can't even get out of the huddle. And while people may blame Shula for that, when DA started, it really wasn't a thing. Not sure what the root cause is, but it's infuriating.

We literally have a handful of players on our offense that are consistently better than "okay", and that's troubling.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:


Quote:
KB seemed like he did so much better in 2014.


Even in 2014, Benjamin was inconsistent. Probably even worse - he dropped a ton of passes. I was excited to see him come back because I remember the rave reviews he was getting in camp last year, but it is more of the same. His hands have improved somewhat, but his route-running is atrocious. Worst in the league. Cam always seems to be off-sync with him, an issue Newton doesn't have with any other receiver on the team. He might not throw it accurately, but he always seems to be on sync with Olsen, Ginn, etc. I don't know how after 3 years, Benjamin can't at least get in position. And the penalties make matters worse. He's a penalty machine.


I guess it just feels like he doesn't give a crap. He's lethargic.

Maybe it is revisionist history, but I felt like he tried harder in 2014 and that he seems entitled this year.

It might be him that Olsen was talking about after the Seattle game... guy's that want to put forth the effort.

'course, it could also be Cam... I heard on WFNZ this AM that the locker room didn't think Cam put in enough film study and that he rubbed some people the wrong way.

It is often the case to have a divided locker room in a losing season... Winning solves a lot... the "team chemistry", with mostly the same guys, last year was hailed as one of the best.

Lets face facts, though...

Cam is not going anywhere... Ron isn't either... at least any time soon.

Almost everyone else (below) is fighting for their jobs right now though. A team drafting in the top 10 makes for poor job security.

Untouchables:
Luke
Cam
Ron
Gettlemen - back-to-back-to-back division titles means he's got another year or two
Kalil
TD

...

That's about it, tho.
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CTPanthersFan58


Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 338
Location: Connecticut
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
iknowcool wrote:


Quote:
KB seemed like he did so much better in 2014.


Even in 2014, Benjamin was inconsistent. Probably even worse - he dropped a ton of passes. I was excited to see him come back because I remember the rave reviews he was getting in camp last year, but it is more of the same. His hands have improved somewhat, but his route-running is atrocious. Worst in the league. Cam always seems to be off-sync with him, an issue Newton doesn't have with any other receiver on the team. He might not throw it accurately, but he always seems to be on sync with Olsen, Ginn, etc. I don't know how after 3 years, Benjamin can't at least get in position. And the penalties make matters worse. He's a penalty machine.


I guess it just feels like he doesn't give a crap. He's lethargic.

Maybe it is revisionist history, but I felt like he tried harder in 2014 and that he seems entitled this year.

It might be him that Olsen was talking about after the Seattle game... guy's that want to put forth the effort.

'course, it could also be Cam... I heard on WFNZ this AM that the locker room didn't think Cam put in enough film study and that he rubbed some people the wrong way.

It is often the case to have a divided locker room in a losing season... Winning solves a lot... the "team chemistry", with mostly the same guys, last year was hailed as one of the best.

Lets face facts, though...

Cam is not going anywhere... Ron isn't either... at least any time soon.

Almost everyone else (below) is fighting for their jobs right now though. A team drafting in the top 10 makes for poor job security.

Untouchables:
Luke
Cam
Ron
Gettlemen - back-to-back-to-back division titles means he's got another year or two
Kalil
TD

...

That's about it, tho.


No Olsen? Him, Luke, and TD are the heart and soul of this team
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Toughguy77


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Rivera slowly losing the locker room? First Cam not wanting to wear a tie when multiple teammates offered theirs and now multiple Benji benching incidents.

Maybe it's a tad of an overreaction, but I still don't think it reflects positively on Rivera.
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't really see Rivera completely losing the locker-room. Guys respect him. He's always been good in that regard. He just isn't a good Xs and Os head coach.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTPanthersFan58 wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
iknowcool wrote:


Quote:
KB seemed like he did so much better in 2014.


Even in 2014, Benjamin was inconsistent. Probably even worse - he dropped a ton of passes. I was excited to see him come back because I remember the rave reviews he was getting in camp last year, but it is more of the same. His hands have improved somewhat, but his route-running is atrocious. Worst in the league. Cam always seems to be off-sync with him, an issue Newton doesn't have with any other receiver on the team. He might not throw it accurately, but he always seems to be on sync with Olsen, Ginn, etc. I don't know how after 3 years, Benjamin can't at least get in position. And the penalties make matters worse. He's a penalty machine.


I guess it just feels like he doesn't give a crap. He's lethargic.

Maybe it is revisionist history, but I felt like he tried harder in 2014 and that he seems entitled this year.

It might be him that Olsen was talking about after the Seattle game... guy's that want to put forth the effort.

'course, it could also be Cam... I heard on WFNZ this AM that the locker room didn't think Cam put in enough film study and that he rubbed some people the wrong way.

It is often the case to have a divided locker room in a losing season... Winning solves a lot... the "team chemistry", with mostly the same guys, last year was hailed as one of the best.

Lets face facts, though...

Cam is not going anywhere... Ron isn't either... at least any time soon.

Almost everyone else (below) is fighting for their jobs right now though. A team drafting in the top 10 makes for poor job security.

Untouchables:
Luke
Cam
Ron
Gettlemen - back-to-back-to-back division titles means he's got another year or two
Kalil
TD

...

That's about it, tho.


No Olsen? Him, Luke, and TD are the heart and soul of this team


Yea... Olsen too.
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faccda01


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, let's not overreact here. There was talk of this in 2014 as well, and look what happened the following year.

Rivera is a good coach, though I can't really understand what happened to us this year. Maybe it is just the team, we have never had two consecutive winning seasons!
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pf9


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I echo this sentiment completely. A good idea for a replacement is UNC's Larry Fedora. He's built up quite a following in the state for making the football program of a basketball school a contender in the ACC - in 2015 UNC was that close to a possible College Football Playoff berth, only to come up short against Clemson in the ACC title game.
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FriendlyEnemy


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember who I saw post this on twitter, but I saw the idea of Ron going to LA to be their head coach. Would make since cuz he is a Cali guy with a large hispanic following in LA. We could promote from within with McDermott or go after a guy that Gettleman wants.
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Cypher


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The irony of the 2016 Carolina Panthers:

Critic: "Cam Newton has been pretty mediocre if not downright bad again, returning to his career average."
Fans: "BRUH! Look at him in 2015! It's OBVIOUS he can be that guy!"

Critic: "Rivera has gone conservative again, returning to his career norm."
Fans: "GOD I KNOW RIGHT! UGH! I mean sure he was "Riverboat" last year but last year don't mean nothin'! Fire him!"
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2016/12/24/14076782/nfl-draft-order-2017-49ers-browns-bears-jaguars?client=ms-android-sprint-us

Pretty important draft position implications against the bucs

Lotsa teams just 1 win better than us.

Could be the difference between top 10 and mid teens
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cypher wrote:
The irony of the 2016 Carolina Panthers:

Critic: "Cam Newton has been pretty mediocre if not downright bad again, returning to his career average."
Fans: "BRUH! Look at him in 2015! It's OBVIOUS he can be that guy!"

Critic: "Rivera has gone conservative again, returning to his career norm."
Fans: "GOD I KNOW RIGHT! UGH! I mean sure he was "Riverboat" last year but last year don't mean nothin'! Fire him!"


1. It's easier to replace a head coach than it is a quarterback.

2. Cam Newton is not a downright bad quarterback. You aren't a fan of his, which is fair, but he's still one of the 15 or 10 best QBs in the NFL. Any idea to get rid of him is illogical. Not denying he's had his struggles, but he plays in a scheme that lends itself towards inconsistent play. It's similar to Stafford, who people would always try and knock down a peg even though it was clear he had what it took. All he needed was a scheme change. It was the same thing with Stafford. You think Stafford went from a career 58% passer to a 67% passer because he suddenly got accurate at 27 years old? I don't think Newton will make that leap (and quite frankly, Stafford is a better pure passer), but when you ask a QB to consistently make throws downfield, he's going to struggle and his stats will suffer. No QB other than maybe Aaron Rodgers can do that, and look at how much worse Rodgers is/was (relative to normal Rodgers) when he was working with similar low efficient play-calls.

Whether we fire Rivera or not, it is more important that we get rid of Shula. For whatever positives he may bring, his offense is far too inefficient to consistently work in the NFL. Even if you want to say Cam is the bigger problem, it doesn't explain or forgive Shula for the type of plays he calls with an offensive line or group of receivers he knows can't handle it. And if Shula does stay, it is on Rivera. I'm not going to excuse him because his coordinator sucks when he is responsible for it.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I do think my opinion of Rivera would be better if we had a better offense, scheme wise. We probably wouldn't give up as many leads because our offense wouldn't be running such a large amount of low percentage plays.

But Rivera is responsible for that. And I get the impression he has no intentions of firing Shula.
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Toughguy77


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We went from 1st in total offense in the NFL to 19th brining back our #1 WR in Benji. If that doesn't scream change idk what does.
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JayWood2010


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw this on Twitter.

Cam Newton has completed 45.3% of his passes since Week 11 the third-worst completion rate in a six-game span since 1991

For comparison that is lower than Tim Tebow's accuracy which was was 46.5 and 50% in Denver. To be fair Newton still has a higher year with 52%, but i was wondering why is his accuracy so down this year? I dont watch Panthers, and I know his accuracy has always been an issue, but this year seems extroardinarly bad. Did his mechanics regress, bad decision making, or what?
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