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Andy Reid, Bob Sutton and staff need to go. Retire or Fire
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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 1384
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
you don't fire coaches at 7-3 after losing 1 game right after a several game win streak. Your assessment was wrong.

Perhaps this was a misunderstanding?
I never suggested IMMEDIATE firing. I anticipated a possible end-of-season change.
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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 1384
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
All 7-3 records are not equal, but it was clear from history the team was in good hands. There were some issues to fix on the team,

Hmmmmm, so 7-3 records are not equal, but let's assume the Chiefs 7-3 is great and Mayan is wrong? But if it was a weak 7-3 then there there's no issues to deal with? Obviously I felt there were issues to deal with after the Bucs loss.

Hmmmmm, so what does "clear from history the team was in good hands" mean? I wasn't thrilled with Andy's subpar handling of the Chiefs to that point. Let's not forget, Dorsey gave Reid/Sutton everything over the last 4 years. KC managed 1 win and 2 loses.

Hmmmm, there are "some issues to fix", but I didn't touch on any of them?? Huh?
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
you don't fire coaches at 7-3 after losing 1 game right after a several game win streak. Your assessment was wrong.

Perhaps this was a misunderstanding?
I never suggested IMMEDIATE firing. I anticipated a possible end-of-season change.


OK...I mean, if they slid all the way to 7-9 or 8-8 from that point and the necessary adjustemnts weren't made then we could talk. But then hypothetically after any loss or bad half you could say "if this continues the rest of the year the coach should be fired" and that would be true, but unrealistic with a proven HC like Reid that it would get that bad.

A thread about what needed to change was certainly warranted, but not a "fire the coach" thread. And while you didn't suggest IMMEDIATE firing, you were suggesting that they should already be lame duck coaches. That it was OVER, that a change had to made at years end. And it was the wrong take.
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Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To you naysayers, I don't think all of us appreciate what a turning point T.Hill provided the KC offense. Without him, KC may not have even made the playoffs.
I recognized this and revisted the thread as KC_Guy so conveniently provided for.
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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 1384
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
mayanfootball wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
you don't fire coaches at 7-3 after losing 1 game right after a several game win streak. Your assessment was wrong.

Perhaps this was a misunderstanding?
I never suggested IMMEDIATE firing. I anticipated a possible end-of-season change.


OK...I mean, if they slid all the way to 7-9 or 8-8 from that point and the necessary adjustemnts weren't made then we could talk. But then hypothetically after any loss or bad half you could say "if this continues the rest of the year the coach should be fired" and that would be true, but unrealistic with a proven HC like Reid that it would get that bad.

A thread about what needed to change was certainly warranted, but not a "fire the coach" thread. And while you didn't suggest IMMEDIATE firing, you were suggesting that they should already be lame duck coaches. That it was OVER, that a change had to made at years end. And it was the wrong take.
Again, the thrust of the thread was to point out YEARS of frustration with the Reid regieme. I felt KC was lethargic in 2017 after the Bucs game. I had no crystal ball to know Tyreek Hill (and maybe Andy's wake up call per T.Kelce) would give KC a boost to the extent they got.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
To you naysayers, I don't think all of us appreciate what a turning point T.Hill provided the KC offense. Without him, KC may not have even made the playoffs.
I recognized this and revisted the thread as KC_Guy so conveniently provided for.


Oh c'mon this team has dealt with injuries everywhere and it's next man up. They are MUCH better with him, but they were 4-2 before Tyreek ever had over 40 yards receiving in a game, 6-2 before he had a huge breakout game vs Carolina in Maclin's 1st game out, and 7-3 before his 1st return TD. Speaking of Maclin, look how bad they were on offense starting when he went out vs Jax, then Car, TB, and much of the Denver game before doing well against the softer Atl defense.

Now if we had Hill AND Maclin out in that stretch...then maybe we lose 3 xtra games and don't make the playoffs...but you can make any number of scenarios like that.

Bottom line, I think we all do see and appreciate what he brings but there are several players who you could argue we don't make the playoffs without (in addition to the players we actually did lose). Kelce, Peters, Alex, Berry, Ford (considering how much Houston was out), and Ware (considering Charles was out). But bottom line, this team has players step up and DAT if forced to step in would get us by just dandy on returns and jet sweeps/ runs with the occasional nice pass play. Now if that was w/ Hill and Maclin out, we would be toast with Wilson/DAT in Maclin/Hill's spot....but other than that the team would get by and players would step up.

The thing with Hill is he can play the gadget/slot role like Reid has always wanted and he stepped up to be the Maclin when he was out and that turned out to be very valuable. So if you are saying we don't make the playoffs if we had neither Hill or Maclin for that 5 game stretch, I wouldn't argue that.
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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, who said "speed kills"? Find it in, Tyreek "speed" Hill.
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KC_Guy


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 8890
Location: Brussels, Belgium
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Mr. mayanfootball,

about six weeks ago you took to this board to declare:

Quote:
I wouldn't mind if Andy Reid retires. It also means losing Bob Sutton who really should have been fired after the Colts playoff debacle.


Quote:
Andy has lost his ability to innovate. He's lost 1/3 of his passing playbook because Andy insists on using Alex Smith who is incapable of throwing the deep routes.


Now the Chiefs claimed the #2 seed in the AFC West. They are 11-1 over the past two seasons against the strongest division in the AFC. They are 7th on defense league wide - according to the only stat that counts (points) in 2016.

They have run how many deep plays during the second half of the season? Did Alex deliver? I agree, that may be due to Hills' development. Even as a Rookie he changed the whole offense just by his presence, stretching the field and making rooms available for Conley, Kelce and Maclin. No adaptation? Please???

Quote:
Jamal Charles, Jeremy Maclin, Knile Davis, Tamba Hali, Frank Zombo and others are guys that shouldn't be here anymore.


Hmm .. a saying is: hindsight is 20/20. Zombo is doing what he is supposed to do: being a backup OLB. And he's pretty good at that, albeit pass rushing is not his trademark.
Maclin was nicked up, his impact was clearly demonstrated over the past two weeks.
Davis was released and brought back as an emergency stop-gap. So what's wrong here?
Charles - we have no clue what to expect. Had you said he should be released prior to the season you would have been banned by the Admin himself immediately.

All this said - at some point it may be wise to admit you were wrong, said it in the heat of the moment or whatever ... but trying to keep up that idea is just ridiculous.

BTW: After the IND collapse I was ready to tear down Arrowhead and move to another city. Bismarck, ND was pretty high on my list.
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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 1384
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
All this said - at some point it may be wise to admit you were wrong, said it in the heat of the moment or whatever ... but trying to keep up that idea is just ridiculous.


Well now we get around to input from the "instigator" of this recent flurry of posts. Yes, the deliberate move to highlight this thread after it sat dormant, by KC_Guy. I was wondering if you'd have any class to tell us all why you did so.

Admit I was wrong? Hardly. After the Bucs loss, I meant what I said then and gave competent reasons why I said them.

"Trying to keep up that idea..." Huh? My followup post clearly states Andy's performance has improved. (Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:15 pm ). You and others may not like "why", such as Travis Kelce saying Reid was wrong in conservative play-calling. Or that Tyreek Hill's emergence has quite probably pulled Reid's chestnuts out of the fire (in my mind anyway). But I also recognize Reid's (Toub's??) desire for a fake punt TD as an innovation "kick start".

Regardless, I "called off the dogs" (my "dogs" ArrowheadRage) regarding Reid, as things have obviously changed for the better. I still think Sutton is an imbecile. GO CHIEFS.
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valkrei


Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 4999
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC_Guy wrote:
Dear Mr. mayanfootball,

about six weeks ago you took to this board to declare:

Quote:
I wouldn't mind if Andy Reid retires. It also means losing Bob Sutton who really should have been fired after the Colts playoff debacle.


Quote:
Andy has lost his ability to innovate. He's lost 1/3 of his passing playbook because Andy insists on using Alex Smith who is incapable of throwing the deep routes.


Now the Chiefs claimed the #2 seed in the AFC West. They are 11-1 over the past two seasons against the strongest division in the AFC. They are 7th on defense league wide - according to the only stat that counts (points) in 2016.

They have run how many deep plays during the second half of the season? Did Alex deliver? I agree, that may be due to Hills' development. Even as a Rookie he changed the whole offense just by his presence, stretching the field and making rooms available for Conley, Kelce and Maclin. No adaptation? Please???

Quote:
Jamal Charles, Jeremy Maclin, Knile Davis, Tamba Hali, Frank Zombo and others are guys that shouldn't be here anymore.


Hmm .. a saying is: hindsight is 20/20. Zombo is doing what he is supposed to do: being a backup OLB. And he's pretty good at that, albeit pass rushing is not his trademark.
Maclin was nicked up, his impact was clearly demonstrated over the past two weeks.
Davis was released and brought back as an emergency stop-gap. So what's wrong here?
Charles - we have no clue what to expect. Had you said he should be released prior to the season you would have been banned by the Admin himself immediately.

All this said - at some point it may be wise to admit you were wrong, said it in the heat of the moment or whatever ... but trying to keep up that idea is just ridiculous.

BTW: After the IND collapse I was ready to tear down Arrowhead and move to another city. Bismarck, ND was pretty high on my list.


I bold the part I agree with
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
Quote:
All this said - at some point it may be wise to admit you were wrong, said it in the heat of the moment or whatever ... but trying to keep up that idea is just ridiculous.


Well now we get around to input from the "instigator" of this recent flurry of posts. Yes, the deliberate move to highlight this thread after it sat dormant, by KC_Guy. I was wondering if you'd have any class to tell us all why you did so.

Admit I was wrong? Hardly. After the Bucs loss, I meant what I said then and gave competent reasons why I said them.

"Trying to keep up that idea..." Huh? My followup post clearly states Andy's performance has improved. (Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:15 pm ). You and others may not like "why", such as Travis Kelce saying Reid was wrong in conservative play-calling. Or that Tyreek Hill's emergence has quite probably pulled Reid's chestnuts out of the fire (in my mind anyway). But I also recognize Reid's (Toub's??) desire for a fake punt TD as an innovation "kick start".

Regardless, I "called off the dogs" (my "dogs" ArrowheadRage) regarding Reid, as things have obviously changed for the better. I still think Sutton is an imbecile. GO CHIEFS.


This years team is as frustrating as it is exciting. SOrta like some bubba gump chocolates, please have a SB win in there somewhere.
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's not completely sutton's fault that Demps and Lewis are trash and B-Flowers got hurt who was the only guy we had who could play in the slot. Bob is solid but unspectacular. He puts his players in a position to make plays as evidenced by our 34 forced turnovers this year.
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KC_Guy


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 8890
Location: Brussels, Belgium
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
Well now we get around to input from the "instigator" of this recent flurry of posts. Yes, the deliberate move to highlight this thread after it sat dormant, by KC_Guy. I was wondering if you'd have any class to tell us all why you did so.


That's fairly easy to answer: I thought (and still do) that this issue may need a new discussion after regular season's end. And the discussion it stirred up proved me right I think.

As for you "calling off the dogs" on Reid: Hindsight is 20/20. You wanted to clear house, based on your assessment at that time (which you obviously still consider absolute correct). I still consider it outrageously ridiculous, and the season's outcome is all proof I need for that assessment.

As for your assessment of Sutton and the defence: You claim Dorsey provides Sutton with personnel that overcomes Sutton's deficiencies and delivers. One may see it exactly the other way around as well: Sutton develops a fairly good defence out of whatever Dorsey picks off the scrap heap that is the FA market late in the season.
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Last edited by KC_Guy on Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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samsel23


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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valkrei


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC_Guy wrote:
mayanfootball wrote:
Well now we get around to input from the "instigator" of this recent flurry of posts. Yes, the deliberate move to highlight this thread after it sat dormant, by KC_Guy. I was wondering if you'd have any class to tell us all why you did so.


That's fairly easy to answer: I thought (and still do) that this issue may need a new discussion after regular season's end. And the discussion it stirred up proved me right I think.

As for you "calling off the dogs" on Reid: Hindsight is 20/20. You wanted to clear house, based on your assessment at that time (which you obviously still consider absolute correct). I still consider it outrageously ridiculous, and the season's outcome is all proof I need for that assessment.

As for your assessment of Sutton and the defence: You claim Dorsey provides Sutton with personnel that overcomes Sutton's deficiencies and delivers. One may see it exactly the other way around as well: Sutton develops a fairly good defence out of whatever Dorsey picks off the scrap heap that is the FA market late in the season.


This is why some of these discussions need a new thread and not bring old ones back to life. Things change, opinions change, hell for a few weeks we were the #2 seed and then we were not and now we are. Also so much information passes by we forget the setting that set up those comments in the first place.
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