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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 3724
Location: San Diego--Mile High West
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counselor wrote:
iLikeDefense wrote:
I think some poster (not sure if Elliott?) had mentioned that Elway values PFF metrics/ranks for college players/prospects, why does he not do this in regards to NFL players??


I'd like to see a quote from Elway saying this


I want to be clear I am not saying this is true but purely speculative, so calm down. I could have sworn someone posting a trend of Elway's draft selections having high PFF grades. Could have been here or somewhere else. With that said, I don't view PFF as gospel but it is good way to compare eye test and their metrics. No coincidence Peko had PFF grade and Bengal fans saying he's done. Or the poor grade our OL had aside from Paradis, that is easy to see and back up with their metrics.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncofan48 wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
champ11 wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
Really failed there Elway. This FA period has been a joke


IDK about a 'joke', but it has certainly been underwhelming. Especially for those of us that thought this team could have a repeat of the 2014 offseason.

We are no longer the cream of the crop in this division and were in need of some excellent signings to compete with Oakland and KC talent wise. We have not really done that.

I would argue with anyone that thinks this has been anything more than a 'C' to 'C-' type offseason, especially given our huge caps space and our potentially overstated idea that Elway was/is a master FA recruiter.


Yeah, I agree. And I'm off the Romo boat with the OL not getting a home run starter at T.


Despite the continued stating of Denver being a championship town, perhaps we all should consider the idea that the staff currently looks at the roster more from a long-term perspective than win-now one.

It has been a complete overhaul of the coaching ranks, Joseph has been given a five year contract only surpassed in length by the one Shanahan got in San Francisco. With two young QBs on the roster and the overall unimpressive state of the Broncos' in-house roster talent, Elway's draft classes, Denver is rebuilding for a couple of years down the road more than it is able to compete this or even next season.

I agree and have been saying that for a while.


I guess then why spend the money if you don't have to. Is the free agent market better next year? Could be a thought...


That or as AK mentioned, saving the cap for rollover purposes as we go down the road


Cap rollover is definitely an option. Don't waste $ you can spend later. For difference makers? Absolutely. Not for league average or depth guys. Keeping enough $ (7-8M) for the LT who could be available for a draft day deal is also in play.

Having said that spending 1-2m more for Logan since both were 1-year deals. If that ends up being the difference ...ugh. It's not like we got Peko at vet min wage. Oh well.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Elway got Kasim Edebali today.

Most of us likely going.....who? 😁

Young NO 6'2 253 lb EDGE. Size and past experience indicate he's coming to be our 4th EDGE and ST guy. Assume it's a bargain bin signing.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/841416896150937601

Potential but raw. No issue as a depth signing - even if only 1/5 guys work out no risk (assuming $ wasn't much above min wage). Didn't bother posting a separate thread. 😆
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 8722
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
broncofan48 wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
champ11 wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
Really failed there Elway. This FA period has been a joke


IDK about a 'joke', but it has certainly been underwhelming. Especially for those of us that thought this team could have a repeat of the 2014 offseason.

We are no longer the cream of the crop in this division and were in need of some excellent signings to compete with Oakland and KC talent wise. We have not really done that.

I would argue with anyone that thinks this has been anything more than a 'C' to 'C-' type offseason, especially given our huge caps space and our potentially overstated idea that Elway was/is a master FA recruiter.


Yeah, I agree. And I'm off the Romo boat with the OL not getting a home run starter at T.


Despite the continued stating of Denver being a championship town, perhaps we all should consider the idea that the staff currently looks at the roster more from a long-term perspective than win-now one.

It has been a complete overhaul of the coaching ranks, Joseph has been given a five year contract only surpassed in length by the one Shanahan got in San Francisco. With two young QBs on the roster and the overall unimpressive state of the Broncos' in-house roster talent, Elway's draft classes, Denver is rebuilding for a couple of years down the road more than it is able to compete this or even next season.

I agree and have been saying that for a while.


I guess then why spend the money if you don't have to. Is the free agent market better next year? Could be a thought...


That or as AK mentioned, saving the cap for rollover purposes as we go down the road


Cap rollover is definitely an option. Don't waste $ you can spend later. For difference makers? Absolutely. Not for league average or depth guys. Keeping enough $ (7-8M) for the LT who could be available for a draft day deal is also in play.

Having said that spending 1-2m more for Logan since both were 1-year deals. If that ends up being the difference ...ugh. It's not like we got Peko at vet min wage. Oh well.


I don't think the Broncos expect to start Peko...I liked the signing actually, he is a warrior who will have his moments. He is a rotational guy a locker room guy.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
broncofan48 wrote:
jsthomp2007 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
BroncoinGermany wrote:
champ11 wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
Really failed there Elway. This FA period has been a joke


IDK about a 'joke', but it has certainly been underwhelming. Especially for those of us that thought this team could have a repeat of the 2014 offseason.

We are no longer the cream of the crop in this division and were in need of some excellent signings to compete with Oakland and KC talent wise. We have not really done that.

I would argue with anyone that thinks this has been anything more than a 'C' to 'C-' type offseason, especially given our huge caps space and our potentially overstated idea that Elway was/is a master FA recruiter.


Yeah, I agree. And I'm off the Romo boat with the OL not getting a home run starter at T.


Despite the continued stating of Denver being a championship town, perhaps we all should consider the idea that the staff currently looks at the roster more from a long-term perspective than win-now one.

It has been a complete overhaul of the coaching ranks, Joseph has been given a five year contract only surpassed in length by the one Shanahan got in San Francisco. With two young QBs on the roster and the overall unimpressive state of the Broncos' in-house roster talent, Elway's draft classes, Denver is rebuilding for a couple of years down the road more than it is able to compete this or even next season.

I agree and have been saying that for a while.


I guess then why spend the money if you don't have to. Is the free agent market better next year? Could be a thought...


That or as AK mentioned, saving the cap for rollover purposes as we go down the road


Cap rollover is definitely an option. Don't waste $ you can spend later. For difference makers? Absolutely. Not for league average or depth guys. Keeping enough $ (7-8M) for the LT who could be available for a draft day deal is also in play.

Having said that spending 1-2m more for Logan since both were 1-year deals. If that ends up being the difference ...ugh. It's not like we got Peko at vet min wage. Oh well.


I don't think the Broncos expect to start Peko...I liked the signing actually, he is a warrior who will have his moments. He is a rotational guy a locker room guy.


3.8m is a lot for a rotational 3-4 NT. Even with Williams / Poe likely setting new bars only 5-6 NT make more (4-3 DT make a ton more).
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 13063
Location: La Mesa, CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logan got 8 million. Not bad for him.
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 13063
Location: La Mesa, CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
So Elway got Kasim Edebali today.

Most of us likely going.....who? 😁

Young NO 6'2 253 lb EDGE. Size and past experience indicate he's coming to be our 4th EDGE and ST guy. Assume it's a bargain bin signing.

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/841416896150937601

Potential but raw. No issue as a depth signing - even if only 1/5 guys work out no risk (assuming $ wasn't much above min wage). Didn't bother posting a separate thread. 😆

5 sacks in 2015, interesting. Needed to bring in someone with Watson still out there anyway.
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 13063
Location: La Mesa, CA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peko is gonna be a 20-25 snap + veteran presence for young players. It's worth it if he can just not be a big liability but I suspect Kerr ends up playing more anyway. They actually seem high on him and he's really versatile. Can play the nose and we can also use some alignments with Kerr playing RE next to Peko vs. power running games. I get what Elway's doing in that sense, Williams and Crick just got moved off the ball consistently all season, these guys should be a little stronger at the POA at least.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
Logan got 8 million. Not bad for him.


It's scary what Poe is trying to get if he turned down 8m from KC. Hate that KC got better in run D. We are still 3rd best team in the trenches within our division...at best.

Leary, Watson and the 2 under the radar signings (Kerr & Edebali I'm assuming are bargain basement $ given their obscurity) are all good values. Just Watson is no lock to stay healthy and hard to think right now our run D is any better. And no LT we can feel good about having. At least we have the $ left for that if a trade can happen, and maybe we can get Dunlap to be our 3rd T cheaply. But a lot of ifs and maybes.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6952
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
Peko is gonna be a 20-25 snap + veteran presence for young players. It's worth it if he can just not be a big liability but I suspect Kerr ends up playing more anyway. They actually seem high on him and he's really versatile. Can play the nose and we can also use some alignments with Kerr playing RE next to Peko vs. power running games. I get what Elway's doing in that sense, Williams and Crick just got moved off the ball consistently all season, these guys should be a little stronger at the POA at least.


I think you're right. Just a very solid, very durable, blue collar D Lineman.

Outside of 2009 he's started all 16 games every season for a decade. He knows what it takes, on and off the field, to play the game.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19487
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
Peko is gonna be a 20-25 snap + veteran presence for young players. It's worth it if he can just not be a big liability but I suspect Kerr ends up playing more anyway. They actually seem high on him and he's really versatile. Can play the nose and we can also use some alignments with Kerr playing RE next to Peko vs. power running games. I get what Elway's doing in that sense, Williams and Crick just got moved off the ball consistently all season, these guys should be aTenn little stronger at the POA at least.


I think you're right. Just a very solid, very durable, blue collar D Lineman.

Outside of 2009 he's started all 16 games every season for a decade. He knows what it takes, on and off the field, to play the game.

I don't know what we're going to get from Peko that we didn't get from Sly. In the same vane I don't know what Tennessee thinks they're going to get from Sly. I guess it's just a 'a change of scenery can't be bad for anyone' kind of situation.

I think a big part of why we're keeping it so quiet in FA is that Elway wants to let Vance and the staff see what they have in real game action. If you spend huge money on a Calaias Campbell, for example, or even a Tony Romo, then you go into 2018 and likely married to those players. This way we're not really married to anyone, including the QBs. For a team that, as I've been saying for a long time, is in rebuilding mode, that's not a bad thing.
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AAA is right, as he usually is.
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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 3724
Location: San Diego--Mile High West
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
Peko is gonna be a 20-25 snap + veteran presence for young players. It's worth it if he can just not be a big liability but I suspect Kerr ends up playing more anyway. They actually seem high on him and he's really versatile. Can play the nose and we can also use some alignments with Kerr playing RE next to Peko vs. power running games. I get what Elway's doing in that sense, Williams and Crick just got moved off the ball consistently all season, these guys should be aTenn little stronger at the POA at least.


I think you're right. Just a very solid, very durable, blue collar D Lineman.

Outside of 2009 he's started all 16 games every season for a decade. He knows what it takes, on and off the field, to play the game.

I don't know what we're going to get from Peko that we didn't get from Sly. In the same vane I don't know what Tennessee thinks they're going to get from Sly. I guess it's just a 'a change of scenery can't be bad for anyone' kind of situation.

I think a big part of why we're keeping it so quiet in FA is that Elway wants to let Vance and the staff see what they have in real game action. If you spend huge money on a Calaias Campbell, for example, or even a Tony Romo, then you go into 2018 and likely married to those players. This way we're not really married to anyone, including the QBs. For a team that, as I've been saying for a long time, is in rebuilding mode, that's not a bad thing.


I gotta say AAA, I am glad you are back. You definitely bring a unique perspective to the table. I am really starting to see that sort of plan here, as I thought we'd have another 2014 off-season.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iLikeDefense wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
Peko is gonna be a 20-25 snap + veteran presence for young players. It's worth it if he can just not be a big liability but I suspect Kerr ends up playing more anyway. They actually seem high on him and he's really versatile. Can play the nose and we can also use some alignments with Kerr playing RE next to Peko vs. power running games. I get what Elway's doing in that sense, Williams and Crick just got moved off the ball consistently all season, these guys should be aTenn little stronger at the POA at least.


I think you're right. Just a very solid, very durable, blue collar D Lineman.

Outside of 2009 he's started all 16 games every season for a decade. He knows what it takes, on and off the field, to play the game.

I don't know what we're going to get from Peko that we didn't get from Sly. In the same vane I don't know what Tennessee thinks they're going to get from Sly. I guess it's just a 'a change of scenery can't be bad for anyone' kind of situation.

I think a big part of why we're keeping it so quiet in FA is that Elway wants to let Vance and the staff see what they have in real game action. If you spend huge money on a Calaias Campbell, for example, or even a Tony Romo, then you go into 2018 and likely married to those players. This way we're not really married to anyone, including the QBs. For a team that, as I've been saying for a long time, is in rebuilding mode, that's not a bad thing.


I gotta say AAA, I am glad you are back. You definitely bring a unique perspective to the table. I am really starting to see that sort of plan here, as I thought we'd have another 2014 off-season.


AAA you've been really consistent in this view and I respect that. The only point that argues against this when FA began is Elway did bid hard for Campbell. We came in 2nd with a 13m AAV bid. I still maintain passing on Whitworth due to age concerns (Renck noted this) was a mistake in judgment. But Campbell Elway was on hard. Jax was just harder.

Now once we miss on difference makers I always agree with not overspending on the next tier of non-elite guys. So if Elway is thinking now to go 2018 having missed totally agree. Going after Campbell early though suggests 2018 was not his plan A.

Either way Elway shouldn't overcompensate and go nuts now. Value signings sure. But rollover matters not just for a potential LT trade but for 2018+. And given our present results he can't be faulted for taking the long view now.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 19487
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
iLikeDefense wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
Peko is gonna be a 20-25 snap + veteran presence for young players. It's worth it if he can just not be a big liability but I suspect Kerr ends up playing more anyway. They actually seem high on him and he's really versatile. Can play the nose and we can also use some alignments with Kerr playing RE next to Peko vs. power running games. I get what Elway's doing in that sense, Williams and Crick just got moved off the ball consistently all season, these guys should be aTenn little stronger at the POA at least.


I think you're right. Just a very solid, very durable, blue collar D Lineman.

Outside of 2009 he's started all 16 games every season for a decade. He knows what it takes, on and off the field, to play the game.

I don't know what we're going to get from Peko that we didn't get from Sly. In the same vane I don't know what Tennessee thinks they're going to get from Sly. I guess it's just a 'a change of scenery can't be bad for anyone' kind of situation.

I think a big part of why we're keeping it so quiet in FA is that Elway wants to let Vance and the staff see what they have in real game action. If you spend huge money on a Calaias Campbell, for example, or even a Tony Romo, then you go into 2018 and likely married to those players. This way we're not really married to anyone, including the QBs. For a team that, as I've been saying for a long time, is in rebuilding mode, that's not a bad thing.


I gotta say AAA, I am glad you are back. You definitely bring a unique perspective to the table. I am really starting to see that sort of plan here, as I thought we'd have another 2014 off-season.


AAA you've been really consistent in this view and I respect that. The only point that argues against this when FA began is Elway did bid hard for Campbell. We came in 2nd with a 13m AAV bid. I still maintain passing on Whitworth due to age concerns (Renck noted this) was a mistake in judgment. But Campbell Elway was on hard. Jax was just harder.

Now once we miss on difference makers I always agree with not overspending on the next tier of non-elite guys. So if Elway is thinking now to go 2018 having missed totally agree. Going after Campbell early though suggests 2018 was not his plan A.

Either way Elway shouldn't overcompensate and go nuts now. Value signings sure. But rollover matters not just for a potential LT trade but for 2018+. And given our present results he can't be faulted for taking the long view now.

Yeah we did go relatively hard on Campbell and we made a marquee signing, or one hoping is a marquee signing, with Ronald Leary. That was the reinforcement in the trenches Elway and Vance have been saying would be their goal for months. We got one of two but we got them on our terms and didn't over-pay, that's a disciplined approach.

I personally would have preferred either Zietler or Lang to Leary but there's no doubt we upgraded the LG spot and will now have competition RG between Garcia, Schofield and McGovern. That's a win-win; upgrade two spots with one transaction. The lack of a LT does concern me and I really don't know what our plan there is going to be, but I think Elway has done a solid (but admittedly unspectacular) job. We also have 10 draft picks and I would prefer to see us use one of our premium ones on a play-maker type for offense, be it McCaffery or Howard or Cook or one of the others; give McCoy another toy for the offense.
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 2749
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
Peko is gonna be a 20-25 snap + veteran presence for young players. It's worth it if he can just not be a big liability but I suspect Kerr ends up playing more anyway. They actually seem high on him and he's really versatile. Can play the nose and we can also use some alignments with Kerr playing RE next to Peko vs. power running games. I get what Elway's doing in that sense, Williams and Crick just got moved off the ball consistently all season, these guys should be aTenn little stronger at the POA at least.


I think you're right. Just a very solid, very durable, blue collar D Lineman.

Outside of 2009 he's started all 16 games every season for a decade. He knows what it takes, on and off the field, to play the game.

I don't know what we're going to get from Peko that we didn't get from Sly. In the same vane I don't know what Tennessee thinks they're going to get from Sly. I guess it's just a 'a change of scenery can't be bad for anyone' kind of situation.

I think a big part of why we're keeping it so quiet in FA is that Elway wants to let Vance and the staff see what they have in real game action. If you spend huge money on a Calaias Campbell, for example, or even a Tony Romo, then you go into 2018 and likely married to those players. This way we're not really married to anyone, including the QBs. For a team that, as I've been saying for a long time, is in rebuilding mode, that's not a bad thing.

You can say it a billion times still wont make it any less wrong.
Teams like Jacksonville, St Louis, Miami, Philly, Chicago etc, those are teams in rebuild mode.
The team with arguably the best defense in the NFL filled with veterans and big time players does not fit the mold of a rebuilding team. Are the Broncos missing some pieces? Yes. Are they the creme de la creme of contenders? No. but they are certainly a contender. After all, what made us appealing to Romo as one of his top destinations if not the top, is that he views Denver as a contender.
Baltimore was in a similar position with a dominant D but with lots of questions and sub par performances from a below average offense and still won a Super Bowl.
So give it a rest. Some here might see the need to rebuild our O Line and develop our QB as representing some form of a rebuild. You, on the other hand, are at the other end of the spectrum. You just say it to say it.


Last edited by mke1010 on Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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