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2017 Free Agency Thread
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elliot878


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Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Meh Cooper is a bust I think your overstating the move. This isn't even close to the same as signing La'el Collins.


Of course it's not the same as Collins - that was a massive mistake. This is just a flier. It's just that it's a zero cost move, that's all. Literally no risk and no opportunity cost either.


Every team tried to sign Collins whether it was reported or not. He wanted Dallas so Dallas got him.

As far as Jonathan Cooper, I'm with ya, I've never seen a guy that size move the way he moved at the combine in lateral agility drills. It was insane. I don't know how he busted besides the loss of a few seasons to injury, but every time he's released I'm intrigued.

My guess is Cooper just doesn't like football and doesn't care about improving. I've never seen a more physically gifted player workout at that position though.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Meh Cooper is a bust I think your overstating the move. This isn't even close to the same as signing La'el Collins.


Of course it's not the same as Collins - that was a massive mistake. This is just a flier. It's just that it's a zero cost move, that's all. Literally no risk and no opportunity cost either.


Every team tried to sign Collins whether it was reported or not. He wanted Dallas so Dallas got him.

As far as Jonathan Cooper, I'm with ya, I've never seen a guy that size move the way he moved at the combine in lateral agility drills. It was insane. I don't know how he busted besides the loss of a few seasons to injury, but every time he's released I'm intrigued.

My guess is Cooper just doesn't like football and doesn't care about improving. I've never seen a more physically gifted player workout at that position though.


Yeah, to be clear - the massive mistake was that every team by Collins' agent was told to either take him in the 3rd round or sooner, or let him be a UDFA (remember the whole GF-killed-unknown-if-he-was-involved fall from Rd 1 that Collins experienced). I was all over DEN taking him in the 3rd - then no issue of where Collins wanted to play. But we passed him for Jeff Freaking Heuermann. Sigh. And it's there in the Draft Thread, for posterity, this isn't selective memory. Oh well.

And yes, Cooper probably has some other issue preventing him from succeeding - it's just that there is literally no cost. NE traded away 1 year of Chandler Jones and the comp pick ARI gains if they don't retain Jones, but it sounds like they will keep him. Yes, he's been a bust. But now, unlike NE, there's literally no risk. We don't even have to cut anyone or make room for him like we would during the season. That's why I'm bummed out - even if it doesn't work out, it was a free shot. There are very few FA's out there who would be min-wage and no guaranteed $ who are available to just bring in and see what he's got, who have his ceiling.

Even if it fails, it's a shot worth taking. Especially given our OL issues. Even if it's a 1 in 20 chance, there's no cost. It could be a 1 in 100 shot, and the price still made it reasonable to explore. And if that ticket hit - even if it was a league average OG, well at min-wage, that's a lottery-style payout, too. When you don't have to take a risk, why not? Especially for a team that needs a lot of OL upgrades. That was my point. But, what's done is done. Moving on....
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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champ11


Joined: 14 Apr 2014
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Location: CO -> ATX
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyrod has 1300 yards rushing, 11 TDs....37 TDs and 12 Ints passing in his 29 starts with the Bills.

they are so dumb
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ11 wrote:
Tyrod has 1300 yards rushing, 11 TDs....37 TDs and 12 Ints passing in his 29 starts with the Bills.

they are so dumb


Bills said they didn't even know he was going to have surgery yesterday. If he has even a small setback he would fail the physical that's due in early March and then the 2-year/27M portion becomes guaranteed. Imagine if that happens how Taylor & the FO would have to coexist. Total mess.

Airing their dirty laundry like this and how the Rex Ryan firing went down with the GM Whaley saying he had no part in that decision makes them look like a joke.

Taylor isn't elite but they weren't paying him elite $ and they literally have no one ready to step in. The draft looks worse than last year for QB ready to help soon let alone week 1 2017. EJ Manuel & Cardale Jones aren't the answer (Jones needs at least another year he's that raw, and no lock to even get to league average).

If Taylor does get released with HOU/CHI/NYJ/SF/CLE (and BUF) all looking for QB and Romo/Glennon/Taylor as the only viable QB available (I don't see WAS letting Cousins go they can re-franchise him for a 2nd year at worst), someone amongst those 6 will pay up for Taylor if injury doesn't make the contact kick in as guaranteed for 2017-18. If Buf pays similar $ to get Glennon I guess it could be justified but it's way more likely with all teams having more cap space with 15m+ added to all teams, that no QB FA bargains are coming their way. Plus, if I was a FA QB Buf would be right there with SF & NYJ as situations to avoid. Hard to see the QB many teams want go to Buf. Which means the draft and we all know how slow the rookie learning curve is if you aren't pro-ready, and PHI can attest to how painful year 1 is even when the QB is elite-ceiling and nearly ready. And worse this draft has no Wentz like QB ready to step in soon readily identified.

So yeah, BUF FO not looking too smart right now.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect that SD will cut one of Orlando Franklin or DJ Fluker. I would love to add either to man the RG spot and move Schofield to LG. They give some up in pass protection against speed rushers, but you want to improve the short yardage runs? Or running between the tackles? Those guys move men. I would offer either something starting around 5M annually, sign Whitworth for LT and use 1.20 on Cam Robinson or Ramczyk.

Fluker and Cam power run blocking to the right would be beautiful. Could present pass pro issues but the improvement in running would be worth it.

Only would happen if we ditch the ZBS, but I hope we do that too.
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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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Location: San Diego--Mile High West
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
I expect that SD will cut one of Orlando Franklin or DJ Fluker. I would love to add either to man the RG spot and move Schofield to LG. They give some up in pass protection against speed rushers, but you want to improve the short yardage runs? Or running between the tackles? Those guys move men. I would offer either something starting around 5M annually, sign Whitworth for LT and use 1.20 on Cam Robinson or Ramczyk.

Fluker and Cam power run blocking to the right would be beautiful. Could present pass pro issues but the improvement in running would be worth it.

Only would happen if we ditch the ZBS, but I hope we do that too.


I am not high on Fluker. I really thought he'd be a mauler when they pushed him inside but he wasn't all that great and he was seemingly injured every game. Him and Barksdale would have a false start a game. Watch the tape, Gordon had a lot more success going behind Franklin and Dunlap. I'd love Franklin back if he can come cheap because he was not the same player as he was with us. He could still run block well but he sort of lost his mean streak and was also hurt often (the life of an o-linemen for the Chargers).
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not high on Fluker. I really thought he'd be a mauler when they pushed him inside but he wasn't all that great and he was seemingly injured every game. Him and Barksdale would have a false start a game. Watch the tape, Gordon had a lot more success going behind Franklin and Dunlap. I'd love Franklin back if he can come cheap because he was not the same player as he was with us. He could still run block well but he sort of lost his mean streak and was also hurt often (the life of an o-linemen for the Chargers).


I certainly would prefer Franklin and think he would love to return here if SD released him.

Fluker isn't elite by any means, but at 25 he offers nice upside and should be relatively cheap, especially when you take the aforementioned upside into account. I would throw 5M per season at him and still draft a OG in R3 for him to compete with. He should be a top 3 run blocker at OG but seems slow to learn and gets injured a lot. But, were not going to hit home-runs with every FA signing. If we want to rebuild the OL in a single offseason were going to have to roll the dice at one of the starting spots and IMO Fluker is a nice option.

Warmack fits the bill too. Both are upside laden, young underachievers who could fit the bill for a long term , low guaranteed money type deal in the 5-6M AV range. If you hit, you get a mauling, 4+ year starter for a small'ish deal. If you miss, cut them.

Its just an idea. I don't see us snagging two premier guys like Whitworth / Wagner + Zietler for like 20-22M total.

IMO its going to be one premier OL signing, one smaller signing (Either a older guy short term or a signing like outlined above), one day-1 starting OL drafted and one middle round development guy.

And maybe a veteran swing OT too.

Jesus its a mess. [/quote]
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6938
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
I expect that SD will cut one of Orlando Franklin or DJ Fluker. I would love to add either to man the RG spot and move Schofield to LG. They give some up in pass protection against speed rushers, but you want to improve the short yardage runs? Or running between the tackles? Those guys move men. I would offer either something starting around 5M annually, sign Whitworth for LT and use 1.20 on Cam Robinson or Ramczyk.

Fluker and Cam power run blocking to the right would be beautiful. Could present pass pro issues but the improvement in running would be worth it.

Only would happen if we ditch the ZBS, but I hope we do that too.


I'd go a different way. I'd save my money on all but Whitworth. He'd be my top FA target.

In the draft I'd fix the holes. Unless the medical concerns with Ramczyk are huge I'd target him in the 1st. IMO he's the best NFL quality OT in the draft. Start him on the right side and give him a couple of years learning until he replaces Whitworth at LT.

At OG the kid from Utah, Asianti I think, would be an instant starter and a huge upgrade over anyone we have now. Only problem is we'd probably have to move up in the second to get him. His stock will rise rapidly.

Both guys are quite large, quick and can play any scheme necessary.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both Warmack and Fluker are absolute road graders in the run. They are just not great at pass pro. Taking either really is a fit for a power scheme. If we hire Shanahan or Toub, though, both prefer WCO/ZBS, no? I do think those guys are pretty good values for the salary they'll command. For 1-2M than Stephenson, you actually get great run blocking, and no worse pass protection. But unless we commit to a power scheme, not the right fit for us...sadly.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd go a different way. I'd save my money on all but Whitworth. He'd be my top FA target.

In the draft I'd fix the holes. Unless the medical concerns with Ramczyk are huge I'd target him in the 1st. IMO he's the best NFL quality OT in the draft. Start him on the right side and give him a couple of years learning until he replaces Whitworth at LT.

At OG the kid from Utah, Asianti I think, would be an instant starter and a huge upgrade over anyone we have now. Only problem is we'd probably have to move up in the second to get him. His stock will rise rapidly.

Both guys are quite large, quick and can play any scheme necessary.


I just don't think we can rely on filling two starting roles, and depth across the board, using draft picks. Especially with our track record.

I also think you underrate how much money we will have to spend.

We are starting off with 38.55M. Cut the dead weight (Okung, Stephenson, Sambrialo, Turner, Marlon) and that figure goes up to 54.54M. Remove 8M for draft picks, that's 46.54M. Then take into account that Vance Walker, who shouldn't get more than 2M per season, is likely to be our highest paid in-house Free Agent. Then take into account that next offseason we have a pretty small, low talent pool of guys needing contracts. Ward is the top one, and he might be more than expendable by then (Donte Whitner's career path seems plausible IMO).

We can afford to spend a ton. We have a vet min QB for two seasons in Siemian. We need to stack up like Seattle did while Wilson was on his tiny deal. If Trevor doesn't improve, it was a bad strategy. But given what we know now, its the best move.
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a nice thought to build the OL through the draft but given our track record, our championship window (the next 2-3 years) and the unknown of how players will adapt to new coaching, I expect we'll sign two fairly expensive offensive linemen.

In general, our offensive draft pick output is so mediocre, I'd rather just continue to build our defense through the draft. Get an inside linebacker who can start on the weakside from day one. Get a cornerback who can eventually replace whichever of Talib or Roby is gone first. Get a defensive lineman who can grow alongside Gotsis. Get another edge rusher so we'll be stocked even when Ware is gone.
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jsthomp2007 wrote:
We have to keep in mind that Rob Bironas is dead, but might be an upgrade over McMannus.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
It's a nice thought to build the OL through the draft but given our track record, our championship window (the next 2-3 years) and the unknown of how players will adapt to new coaching, I expect we'll sign two fairly expensive offensive linemen.

In general, our offensive draft pick output is so mediocre, I'd rather just continue to build our defense through the draft. Get an inside linebacker who can start on the weakside from day one. Get a cornerback who can eventually replace whichever of Talib or Roby is gone first. Get a defensive lineman who can grow alongside Gotsis. Get another edge rusher so we'll be stocked even when Ware is gone.


It would be a mistake to think we are getting more than 1 rookie to help on the OL for sure - and most likely, that rookie would be a G. Interior OL is easier to step in than the T position, and in this draft, G is way deeper with a few plug and play guys. I also am not a fan of ever reaching for a pick - going 2.50 with a G or RT makes sense because an overall BPA could very well be a G or RT. I actually think trading up to low 40's might be needed to get a top plug and play G, and if so, we should do it. If we want 3 new starters, realistically 2 of them are FA's, and likely even a depth FA is needed for the OL.

I do also think we still need to draft OL later on, when the whiff rate is higher - simply because long-term we need OL solutions. A guy like Whitworth is actually ideal as a FA because he's probably with us for 2 years, and not guaranteed contract wise beyond 2 years, and then hopefully we have a guy ready by then to step in on the cheap.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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7DnBrnc53


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 3251
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ILB Daryl Washington is trying to get reinstated:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/10/report-suspended-linebacker-daryl-washington-to-seek-reinstatement-in-march/

Doesn't sound like Arizona is interested in bringing him back. Wonder if Elway gives him a look.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ILB Daryl Washington is trying to get reinstated:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/10/report-suspended-linebacker-daryl-washington-to-seek-reinstatement-in-march/

Doesn't sound like Arizona is interested in bringing him back. Wonder if Elway gives him a look.


I don't think you can trust Washington to be reliable on or off the field. Few players come back from what, three years away from the game, and play at an high level.

His domestic charge simply removes him from my FA list.
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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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Location: San Diego--Mile High West
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
ILB Daryl Washington is trying to get reinstated:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/10/report-suspended-linebacker-daryl-washington-to-seek-reinstatement-in-march/

Doesn't sound like Arizona is interested in bringing him back. Wonder if Elway gives him a look.


I don't think you can trust Washington to be reliable on or off the field. Few players come back from what, three years away from the game, and play at an high level.

His domestic charge simply removes him from my FA list.


Agreed, hope Elway doesn't even consider it.
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