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Personnel changes coming?
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
I think the changes we'll see are less Michael Johnson and Margus Hunt, more Will Clarke. Probably continue to split snaps with Eric Winston/Ced. Josh Shaw may steal snaps from Kirkpatrick/Jones (though Shaw hasn't exactly been amazing in limited opportunities).

Vigil has been bad in limited opportunities, so has Dennard. So it's hard to reward them with increased snaps just because the starter isn't doing great.

I think there's a possibility that DeSean Williams may be active. But we have to remember that with these guys that have been inactive, it's usually for a reason. So don't get your hopes up. Cinderella stories are nice, but rare. They're usually back of the roster guys for a reason.


It seems as though Gilberry is on his way back. Not exactly the kind of change we are looking for. More older, slower, regressing players.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
theJ wrote:
I think the changes we'll see are less Michael Johnson and Margus Hunt, more Will Clarke. Probably continue to split snaps with Eric Winston/Ced. Josh Shaw may steal snaps from Kirkpatrick/Jones (though Shaw hasn't exactly been amazing in limited opportunities).

Vigil has been bad in limited opportunities, so has Dennard. So it's hard to reward them with increased snaps just because the starter isn't doing great.

I think there's a possibility that DeSean Williams may be active. But we have to remember that with these guys that have been inactive, it's usually for a reason. So don't get your hopes up. Cinderella stories are nice, but rare. They're usually back of the roster guys for a reason.


It seems as though Gilberry is on his way back. Not exactly the kind of change we are looking for. More older, slower, regressing players.

One on hand, the last we saw from him he was pretty bad. On the other hand, he should have fresh legs and it's not like the other DE's outside of Dunlap and occasionally Clarke have been doing anything.

Guess we'll find out.

TheVillain112 wrote:
I'm not expecting DeSean Williams to step in and be Geno Atkins, but from what I've seen of him I am confident he can provide more pressure than Peko in the middle. Or Clarke/Hunt playing inside on 3rd downs. We should inactive Hunt (or MJ93 if we really want to be bold) and let Williams get a shot...
I'm not really confident of that. Last time we saw him make any impact was what, 2-3 years ago in some preseason games? He wasn't very good in this years preseason. I'm not getting my hopes up.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/10/marvin-lewis-pulls-back-on-bengals-defensive-changes/

Alright, this is what's wrong with our team. Useless players will continue to play as long as he's running things...
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ochocinco4pres


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/10/marvin-lewis-pulls-back-on-bengals-defensive-changes/

Alright, this is what's wrong with our team. Useless players will continue to play as long as he's running things...


Shocker, no real changes coming
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ochocinco4pres wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/10/marvin-lewis-pulls-back-on-bengals-defensive-changes/

Alright, this is what's wrong with our team. Useless players will continue to play as long as he's running things...


Shocker, no real changes coming


i don't know. I think he is saying there won't be wholesale changes. Gilberry can take snaps from Johnson and maybe having both a bit fresher will help their overall production. maybe Vigil gets a few more snaps each week. Dennard should get more looks on the outside and maybe they use a rotation of sorts with the CBs, like they try to do with the DEs.

I think Marvin is saying almost the same thing as Guenther. Just trying to be coy about it.
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ochocinco4pres


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw they want to see Dennard in there more since they have to decide on his 5th year option without knowing what he can do.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/10/marvin-lewis-pulls-back-on-bengals-defensive-changes/

Alright, this is what's wrong with our team. Useless players will continue to play as long as he's running things...

So, if you were a coach:

Your starters weren't making an impact.
Fans are screaming to put in the backups.
You're at practice every week and the backups clearly are worse than the starters.
Do you put in the backups anyway in a wholesale change?

I maintain that a few guys are going to see more PT. Probably Dennard and WJIII (i'm betting on him coming off IR) see more at CB in the second half of the season. Clarke is going to work in more at DE. Gilberry will provide maybe 20% snaps or so in relief of MJ93 who has been clearly hurt and not productive. Vigil probably takes some snaps from Rey in nickle situations.

Changes are coming, but it's not like they can just bench the starters. About 100% chance that doesn't do any good.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/10/marvin-lewis-pulls-back-on-bengals-defensive-changes/

Alright, this is what's wrong with our team. Useless players will continue to play as long as he's running things...

So, if you were a coach:

Your starters weren't making an impact.
Fans are screaming to put in the backups.
You're at practice every week and the backups clearly are worse than the starters.
Do you put in the backups anyway in a wholesale change?

I maintain that a few guys are going to see more PT. Probably Dennard and WJIII (i'm betting on him coming off IR) see more at CB in the second half of the season. Clarke is going to work in more at DE. Gilberry will provide maybe 20% snaps or so in relief of MJ93 who has been clearly hurt and not productive. Vigil probably takes some snaps from Rey in nickle situations.

Changes are coming, but it's not like they can just bench the starters. About 100% chance that doesn't do any good.


I disagree with the assessment that the other guys aren't doing as well in practice or will be a step down in the game:

1.) Geno was a backup to Tank Johnson, even though Tank didn't do jack and Geno was excelling every opportunity he got play time. It took way to long to start Geno.

2.) It took what, 2-3 years before Dunlap became a starter over the worst DE I've ever seen in Robert Geathers?

3.) Marvin Jones took how long to see the field?

I can keep going, but it's BS that Marvin keeps saying. He's just a very conservative coach that is too scared to bench a struggling starter. Even if Vigil, Dennard, WJIII, etc... come in and don't perform as well, at least they are getting experience so they can be better players next season. MJ93, Peko, Maualuga and the bunch are only regressing and are not the future. So we're going in reverse and the future is also not looking as bright because of it.

That all said, we should look better this Sunday but it's a long-term vision that I'm not happy with at the moment...
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theJ


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
I disagree with the assessment that the other guys aren't doing as well in practice or will be a step down in the game:

1.) Geno was a backup to Tank Johnson, even though Tank didn't do jack and Geno was excelling every opportunity he got play time. It took way to long to start Geno.

2.) It took what, 2-3 years before Dunlap became a starter over the worst DE I've ever seen in Robert Geathers?

3.) Marvin Jones took how long to see the field?

I can keep going, but it's BS that Marvin keeps saying. He's just a very conservative coach that is too scared to bench a struggling starter. Even if Vigil, Dennard, WJIII, etc... come in and don't perform as well, at least they are getting experience so they can be better players next season. MJ93, Peko, Maualuga and the bunch are only regressing and are not the future. So we're going in reverse and the future is also not looking as bright because of it.

That all said, we should look better this Sunday but it's a long-term vision that I'm not happy with at the moment...

Devil's advocate here: what if those guys were successful because they were able to ease into their PT? I mean, Marvin Jones, Geno Atkins, Dunlap, etc all played a lot. They just didn't get the "start", not that that means much.

There's only one guy i'd start now over the presumed starter at this point, and that's Will Clarke over MJ93. Dennard and Vigil would get more PT, but they've shown nothing to this point to deserve starting other than draft status. When WJIII is healthy i'd give him some long looks too over Jones and Kirkpatrick.

I mean, that's about it. Who else would you start/bench at this point?
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
I disagree with the assessment that the other guys aren't doing as well in practice or will be a step down in the game:

1.) Geno was a backup to Tank Johnson, even though Tank didn't do jack and Geno was excelling every opportunity he got play time. It took way to long to start Geno.

2.) It took what, 2-3 years before Dunlap became a starter over the worst DE I've ever seen in Robert Geathers?

3.) Marvin Jones took how long to see the field?

I can keep going, but it's BS that Marvin keeps saying. He's just a very conservative coach that is too scared to bench a struggling starter. Even if Vigil, Dennard, WJIII, etc... come in and don't perform as well, at least they are getting experience so they can be better players next season. MJ93, Peko, Maualuga and the bunch are only regressing and are not the future. So we're going in reverse and the future is also not looking as bright because of it.

That all said, we should look better this Sunday but it's a long-term vision that I'm not happy with at the moment...

Devil's advocate here: what if those guys were successful because they were able to ease into their PT? I mean, Marvin Jones, Geno Atkins, Dunlap, etc all played a lot. They just didn't get the "start", not that that means much.

There's only one guy i'd start now over the presumed starter at this point, and that's Will Clarke over MJ93. Dennard and Vigil would get more PT, but they've shown nothing to this point to deserve starting other than draft status. When WJIII is healthy i'd give him some long looks too over Jones and Kirkpatrick.

I mean, that's about it. Who else would you start/bench at this point?


Way to put me on the spot advocate for the Devil.

I would definitely start by benching MJ93 for Will Clarke. Since we've signed Wallace Gillberry now, I would even so far as making him inactive on gamedays.

I would also inactivate Domata Peko for DeShawn Williams. We'll have to agree to disagree on his impact this preseason. I still saw plenty of pressure he was applying. I would start Geno and Pat Sims. Then rotate in Williams, Hunt and Gilberry at times at DT.

LB wise, Maualuga is hurt now so I don't really need to do anything. Vigil should get some more playing time and while he's probably a downgrade against the run, he should upgrade our pass defense. Against a team like the Giants who can't really run the ball, I don't think we need guys like Peko, MJ93 or Maualuga. If we're facing good running teams, I would then probably keep Peko and Maualuga active.

For the secondary, I probably wouldn't do anything. If we keep losing and are pretty much eliminated from the playoffs then I would start Dennard over Adam Jones...
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theJ


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
theJ wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
I disagree with the assessment that the other guys aren't doing as well in practice or will be a step down in the game:

1.) Geno was a backup to Tank Johnson, even though Tank didn't do jack and Geno was excelling every opportunity he got play time. It took way to long to start Geno.

2.) It took what, 2-3 years before Dunlap became a starter over the worst DE I've ever seen in Robert Geathers?

3.) Marvin Jones took how long to see the field?

I can keep going, but it's BS that Marvin keeps saying. He's just a very conservative coach that is too scared to bench a struggling starter. Even if Vigil, Dennard, WJIII, etc... come in and don't perform as well, at least they are getting experience so they can be better players next season. MJ93, Peko, Maualuga and the bunch are only regressing and are not the future. So we're going in reverse and the future is also not looking as bright because of it.

That all said, we should look better this Sunday but it's a long-term vision that I'm not happy with at the moment...

Devil's advocate here: what if those guys were successful because they were able to ease into their PT? I mean, Marvin Jones, Geno Atkins, Dunlap, etc all played a lot. They just didn't get the "start", not that that means much.

There's only one guy i'd start now over the presumed starter at this point, and that's Will Clarke over MJ93. Dennard and Vigil would get more PT, but they've shown nothing to this point to deserve starting other than draft status. When WJIII is healthy i'd give him some long looks too over Jones and Kirkpatrick.

I mean, that's about it. Who else would you start/bench at this point?


Way to put me on the spot advocate for the Devil.

I would definitely start by benching MJ93 for Will Clarke. Since we've signed Wallace Gillberry now, I would even so far as making him inactive on gamedays.

I would also inactivate Domata Peko for DeShawn Williams. We'll have to agree to disagree on his impact this preseason. I still saw plenty of pressure he was applying. I would start Geno and Pat Sims. Then rotate in Williams, Hunt and Gilberry at times at DT.

LB wise, Maualuga is hurt now so I don't really need to do anything. Vigil should get some more playing time and while he's probably a downgrade against the run, he should upgrade our pass defense. Against a team like the Giants who can't really run the ball, I don't think we need guys like Peko, MJ93 or Maualuga. If we're facing good running teams, I would then probably keep Peko and Maualuga active.

For the secondary, I probably wouldn't do anything. If we keep losing and are pretty much eliminated from the playoffs then I would start Dennard over Adam Jones...

So i mean, with the exception of Williams/Peko, we basically agree. Laughing
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to agree with the Villain on this one. Peko has been pedestrian, at best, this season. Having him and Sims active basically means we have to interior rush. The Giants don't even want to run the ball, or even pretend to want to. Play Sims on first and second, with Williams the rush DT along side Atkins. If Clark starts at DE, maybe the limited snaps will help Johnson get to the QB when he is in there, or vise versa if Johnson starts.


Another thing to throw out there.... If maualuga ends up on IR, do we finally bring Dawson back to the roster?
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
I'm going to agree with the Villain on this one. Peko has been pedestrian, at best, this season. Having him and Sims active basically means we have to interior rush. The Giants don't even want to run the ball, or even pretend to want to. Play Sims on first and second, with Williams the rush DT along side Atkins. If Clark starts at DE, maybe the limited snaps will help Johnson get to the QB when he is in there, or vise versa if Johnson starts.


Another thing to throw out there.... If maualuga ends up on IR, do we finally bring Dawson back to the roster?


I hope so. I know a lot of it is hype based on how he played in college, but he did flash in the preseason as well. I did notice him with bad gap discipline this preseason but it's not like our other LBs aren't making mistakes...
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawson was the main culprit on the safety that got cut back and turned into a big gain in the preseason. That's the only glaring gap coverage blown during home games that I noticed. Not sure about road games, since I can't control the camera angles.

Either way, can it get any worse? i'd rather see him play and know what I have with him going forward, or just cut bait.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
Dawson was the main culprit on the safety that got cut back and turned into a big gain in the preseason. That's the only glaring gap coverage blown during home games that I noticed. Not sure about road games, since I can't control the camera angles.

Either way, can it get any worse? i'd rather see him play and know what I have with him going forward, or just cut bait.


That's the exact play I was thinking of. I also agree 100% about seeing what we have in him.

Take a look at the Steelers section and their comments about Artie Burns the past couple of weeks. He got burned by Mike Wallace and Dez, but they are very optimistic about him and rightfully so. He's learning on the job but you know what, he'll improve. Our guys are just wasting away on the bench.

It does sound like they'll give WJIII a chance this season though when he returns from injury. So that's a positive (if it actually happens)...
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