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Potential Trade Offer: Joe Thomas

 
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bagh


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9241
Location: Toronto, Ontario (That's Canada folks )
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Potential Trade Offer: Joe Thomas Reply with quote

O.k. I know some guys is going to be coming in here going "Browns aren't trading him," that tool aside, we have a need at LT.

What do you give up for Joe Thomas.

Keep in mind, Thoma's cap hit for the next 2 years is 20 million.

I say a 2nd and a 5th will get the job done.

Get Thomas, move Flowers over to the right side and solidfy line and hope we can get some semblence of a running game going.
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GMENNATION


Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 485
Location: Greater New York Area
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the browns would do it for a 2nd and 5th but I would take that. The 2nd rounder is valuable but hitting on a LT is very important. There's no guarantee we will find one in the offseason through the draft or FA so if the idea is we're moving Flowers to RT no matter what, then you pay the price of a 2/5 for a guaranteed solid LT.
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IbleedBLUE24


Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 672
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd only give up a 4th. Not because of the player, just because I don't see him as being a fix to the problem. Thomas is a tremendous player and is a franchise LT, but I don't feel it is Flowers that is holding us back. You can get him for a 4th or something cheap like that you do it, but you don't go out of your way to make it happen.

The problem with the run game, and to a certain extent pass protection, has been in large part due to our interior play. A lot of people praise them, but to me they have not been very strong at the point of attack. With Pugh and Richburg both in consideration for top-5 players at their position you would think we could run up the gut. That is not the case. Their lack of push at the point of attack often times stymies runs before they even start. For a bigger aging back like Jennings to be successful he needs holes to run through. Right now our line overall can only seem to create creases. I would like to see Perkins get a chance going forward, he seems to be able to slip through those creases (like Tiki used to) that Jennings gets boggled up in. Our guards and Richburg are at their best when they are pulling. All three are great athletes who excel at getting to the second level, but none are the gritty smash mouth players that can manhandle opposing DT's on the regularity. That physicality is what we are lacking, IMO. They can improve, and like most lines should play better as they become more cohesive as a unit.

However, they get over powered a lot, and it shows in pass protection as well. Eli has no where to step up into because while the interior is blocking their man, they are 2-3 yards deep on most pass plays, and Eli is not quick enough to scramble outside the pocket. If the tackles fail he must be able to step up or he's going down. Yes, Flowers has given up sacks (most LT do), but he will face the same heat on the right side as well. They will send their best speed rusher his way regardless. My biggest problem with him is the penalties, which will also happen regardless of side. He needs to clean those up. Plus I don't want to see them stunt Hart's growth by putting him back on the bench. He has played decent in his time at RT this season. He too needs to get stronger. These may be our future bookends at tackle, let them continue to grow as players.

Work on increasing the overall strength of the line. Game plan around this weakness. Run more 4 WR sets for 2 reasons. Dictate the personnel the D can use by forcing them into nickel and dime packages, and right now Roger Lewis is more of a threat than either Will Tye or Larry "I Don't Why I'm Somersaulting" Donnell is anyway. Get your best players on the field. He also requires a different type of player to cover him. Make them put more CB's in place of LB's. No D- coordinator is going to want their LB in coverage against a WR for most of the game (especially not Shepard/Cruz/Beckham who will likely do most of the slot work in a 4 WR set). It isn't going to help our interior get more push, but you can go Andy Reid a la the Philly era and use swing passes and screens much like a run game. Get the ball in the hand of your RB or OBJ with help out front and make the CB make the plays. Run enough of those plays for positive yardage (3-5 yard average is enough) it'll have the same effect has a good run game. They'll drop a safety down and open up their back half of the defense.
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GEE MEN


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 4597
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hoping for it and apparently it is either Giants or bust if he gets traded.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/31/joe-thomas-trade-possibilities-boiling-down-to-giants-or-no-one/

And given how Bobby Hart is playing I would prefer Flowers be the swing tackle (won't happen bc of where he was picked) and keep Hart starting. I doubt we get Thomas but if we did I think that is what would jumpstart this offense and we are off to serious contention and may very well see Eli/Brady III.
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minutemancl


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 14596
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd give up a third and another lower pick for him, but Reese has been great with his 2nd round picks. It's not worth trading one for Thomas who we might not get more than 2 years out of.

2nd round picks in recent years:
Sterling Shepard
Weston Richburg
Johnathan Hankins
Landon Collins
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reckless123


Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 22849
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point about our guards pulling because I've noticed that we're good when they're moving. And these guys are technicians, they're not maulers per se. I think in pass pro our guards are fine, problem is that are tackles allowing the ends to collapse the pocket. I haven't seen it as a case of our interior being pushed back in to the pocket leaving ELi nowhere to go. Flowers could do a good job of losing 10 pounds because he's not fast enough out of his stance and his hand placement and arms are to wide which means his chest is exposed.

I definitely think our tackles are the weak spot and it has me worried that we will see bad and erratic Eli vs the Eagles on Sunday.
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