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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The goal shouldn't be a set number of sacks. It should be flashing pass rush skills and generating pressure at a rate that is disruptive. The number of times that Fowler actually beat the player in front of him and caused pressure, you can count on one had. The number of times that Fowler beat an OT and got a sack, you can count on your thumbs...of one hand.
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KhanYouDigIt


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dante did suck this year but I'm not gonna give up on him yet. Vic Beasley looked just as bad in his rookie year. I remember seeing some of Beasley's spin moves his rookie year and they were almost on par with Dante's.

I do think he is better suited standing up at the LOS, lined up everywhere but what do I know. He does need to show tremendous improvement next season, like Beasley did.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
The goal shouldn't be a set number of sacks. It should be flashing pass rush skills and generating pressure at a rate that is disruptive. The number of times that Fowler actually beat the player in front of him and caused pressure, you can count on one had. The number of times that Fowler beat an OT and got a sack, you can count on your thumbs...of one hand.


Eh, I think you may be underselling him a bit here. Yes, it wasn't as great of a year from the pass rush department as you would hope, but even in the one game against Jack Conklin in week 16 I'm pretty sure he hit Mariota's hand twice and had a couple other pressures strictly going up against Conklin. Obviously not counting the stunt where he lit up Mariota in that.

There's no doubt you want to see more from Fowler this year than he showed. I just don't know what people expect when he has his hand in the dirt from the edge where he didn't get much if any work in college at. How are we expecting him to come into the NFL and stick him in one spot and expect him to be successful? I guess I just don't have as much immediate expectations from a raw talent playing a brand new position. Vic Beasley and co. played the edge with their hand in the dirt and were more advanced in the pass rush department coming out of college. Dante Fowler clearly wasn't. The pick was based on upside. If you dislike that fine, but if in another couple seasons Fowler is still not getitng much rush/making a large impact hate it. Just think it's way to early to stick a fork in him like it seems like most are doing.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KhanYouDigIt wrote:
Dante did suck this year but I'm not gonna give up on him yet. Vic Beasley looked just as bad in his rookie year. I remember seeing some of Beasley's spin moves his rookie year and they were almost on par with Dante's.

I do think he is better suited standing up at the LOS, lined up everywhere but what do I know. He does need to show tremendous improvement next season, like Beasley did.


He is.

I'm going to go back and watch some Florida tape at some point, but man was I excited watching this guy after we selected/all last year while he was out. I just hate how we used him. I didn't understand it, especially after a few games into the season when it clearly was a struggle for a guy that hasn't ever played there. Move him around.

He's raw. Was coming out as a prospect, still is. Luckily he's already said he's going to work with Von Miller and co. this offseason to work on hand usage and pass rush moves in general. Got the work ethic clearly which is great. He said Von told him not to ever question what he says if I remember right. Laughing
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Jags


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KhanYouDigIt wrote:
Dante did suck this year but I'm not gonna give up on him yet. Vic Beasley looked just as bad in his rookie year. I remember seeing some of Beasley's spin moves his rookie year and they were almost on par with Dante's.

I do think he is better suited standing up at the LOS, lined up everywhere but what do I know. He does need to show tremendous improvement next season, like Beasley did.


I'm going to say this now, and 10 years down the road, you'll agree.

Dante Fowler will never be as good as a pass rusher as Vic Beasley. Vic Beasley will get more sacks in his career and cause more pressure.

Dante Fowler has the potential to be a better all around player.
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jagman777


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fowler sucks but i'll give him one thing, dude really hits hard. probably our hardest hitter all year.

too bad he has jello for brains
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FreeDaJags


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We already know most pass rushers struggle their rookie seasons. I don't understand why some people are already declaring Fowler a lost cause when we all already know he was not going to be a pass rush savant his rookie year. We'll know what we have by the end of next season but to declare him a lost cause now is hilarious.

Will he be a 15 per season sack guy? Probably not. Can he become a guy that can get you 8-10 sacks consistently and put massive pressure on the QB that won't show up in the stat sheet and still contribute in all other facets of the game by being dominant against the run and wreaking havoc? Absolutely. I would prefer that kind of player to one who only gets flashy sacks and is useless at everything else i.e. your Ngakoues and Beasleys of the world.
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Its A Sabotage


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fowler wont be an 8-10 sack guy read this
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2639060-despite-top-draft-position-jaguars-must-temper-expectations-for-dante-fowler
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jagman777


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeDaJags wrote:
We already know most pass rushers struggle their rookie seasons. I don't understand why some people are already declaring Fowler a lost cause when we all already know he was not going to be a pass rush savant his rookie year. We'll know what we have by the end of next season but to declare him a lost cause now is hilarious.

Will he be a 15 per season sack guy? Probably not. Can he become a guy that can get you 8-10 sacks consistently and put massive pressure on the QB that won't show up in the stat sheet and still contribute in all other facets of the game by being dominant against the run and wreaking havoc? Absolutely. I would prefer that kind of player to one who only gets flashy sacks and is useless at everything else i.e. your Ngakoues and Beasleys of the world.


because I watched him his entire career, every single game at UF and did not think he was a high first round prospect based on his play
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FreeDaJags


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its A Sabotage wrote:
fowler wont be an 8-10 sack guy read this
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2639060-despite-top-draft-position-jaguars-must-temper-expectations-for-dante-fowler

I know what force player is and it is not the end all be all. People need to stop using that as a crutch especially when guys like Olivier Vernon and Chandler Jones, who are similar to Fowler, are not FPs.

jagman777 wrote:
because I watched him his entire career, every single game at UF and did not think he was a high first round prospect based on his play
Ok, I go to UF and actually watched him in person.

1. He was definitely a first round talent
2. Just because he can't bend the edge as well as Von Miller doesn't mean he can't be a good pass rusher
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeDaJags wrote:
Its A Sabotage wrote:
fowler wont be an 8-10 sack guy read this
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2639060-despite-top-draft-position-jaguars-must-temper-expectations-for-dante-fowler

I know what force player is and it is not the end all be all. People need to stop using that as a crutch especially when guys like Olivier Vernon and Chandler Jones, who are similar to Fowler, are not FPs.

jagman777 wrote:
because I watched him his entire career, every single game at UF and did not think he was a high first round prospect based on his play
Ok, I go to UF and actually watched him in person.

1. He was definitely a first round talent
2. Just because he can't bend the edge as well as Von Miller doesn't mean he can't be a good pass rusher
5% of non-FP first rounders become Pro Bowl pass rushers. If you want to hang on to 5% odds, have fun.
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FreeDaJags


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if you want to use a crutch instead of your eyes then more power to you. The hilarious part is Justis himself said he saw Fowler as an exception and thought he'd be alright, much like the same way he saw Bosa last year. But yea, keep that head in the sand.

The actual reality is, throwing out FP preconceived notion crap, what Fowler needs to work on the most has nothing to do with how athletic he is. When you watch him on tape his get off is fine and he looks like every other athletic edge rusher in the league up until the point of contact. Fowler needs to work on his hand usage and block shedding, that's his real issue. If Fowler could get off blocks better he would be immensely better as a pass rusher, and that comes with time and experience and the guy is only 22. Florida did not discipline him as a pass rusher, so a lot of the stuff he was doing this year was new to him. He is still learning the nuances of the position.

You do not have to be able to bend underneath a table to be a good pass rusher. You have to be technically sound, which Fowler isn't right now. The added bonus is that Fowler has the type of speed to threaten tackles up field that only the best rushers in the league have, the only thing he is really missing is bend. However, over the last two games, I saw him improve in getting edge pressure, so I have confidence in his ability to improve in the offseason. Using FP instead of your own eyes to judge a player is dumb. Is Fowler a guaranteed hit right now? No. Does he still have every opportunity to be? Yes.
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jagman777


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeDaJags wrote:
Its A Sabotage wrote:
fowler wont be an 8-10 sack guy read this
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2639060-despite-top-draft-position-jaguars-must-temper-expectations-for-dante-fowler

I know what force player is and it is not the end all be all. People need to stop using that as a crutch especially when guys like Olivier Vernon and Chandler Jones, who are similar to Fowler, are not FPs.

jagman777 wrote:
because I watched him his entire career, every single game at UF and did not think he was a high first round prospect based on his play
Ok, I go to UF and actually watched him in person.

1. He was definitely a first round talent
2. Just because he can't bend the edge as well as Von Miller doesn't mean he can't be a good pass rusher


I was just responding to your question which contextually implied that ppl just think he's a bust because of this one year

I thought he would be a bust since before this year, you are free to and obviously do disagree.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeDaJags wrote:
And if you want to use a crutch instead of your eyes then more power to you. The hilarious part is Justis himself said he saw Fowler as an exception and thought he'd be alright, much like the same way he saw Bosa last year. But yea, keep that head in the sand.

The actual reality is, throwing out FP preconceived notion crap, what Fowler needs to work on the most has nothing to do with how athletic he is. When you watch him on tape his get off is fine and he looks like every other athletic edge rusher in the league up until the point of contact. Fowler needs to work on his hand usage and block shedding, that's his real issue. If Fowler could get off blocks better he would be immensely better as a pass rusher, and that comes with time and experience and the guy is only 22. Florida did not discipline him as a pass rusher, so a lot of the stuff he was doing this year was new to him. He is still learning the nuances of the position.

You do not have to be able to bend underneath a table to be a good pass rusher. You have to be technically sound, which Fowler isn't right now. The added bonus is that Fowler has the type of speed to threaten tackles up field that only the best rushers in the league have, the only thing he is really missing is bend. However, over the last two games, I saw him improve in getting edge pressure, so I have confidence in his ability to improve in the offseason. Using FP instead of your own eyes to judge a player is dumb. Is Fowler a guaranteed hit right now? No. Does he still have every opportunity to be? Yes.
> Implying I didn't use my own eyes.

K
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jagman777


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fowler rarely whipped someone one on one to get a sack. seemed like most of his sacks/pressures came off stunts and things where he got moved around the LOS to get a free lane to the QB or had a favorable matchup against a RB, etc. he's athletic, strong and mean but technically not developed at all. every team in the nfl has a guy that they can move around and scheme sacks for using their athleticism. when you're drafting a pass rusher top 5, you want a guy who can create pressure and sacks on his own, going up against nfl tackles and beating them one on one.

imo tbh
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