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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Posts: 5206
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
What the heck?


We needed quality depth at WR at some point for sure. Idk why people were ignoring that as a need. Have no idea how much you can actually count on Lee, and the depth behind that is really thin and mostly proven to be mediocre at best...and that's probably being generous.

Not sure about Westbrook specifically. But whatever i guess. The guy in a similar mold i really really wanted in Carlos Henderson went a good while ago yesterday. So...eh...Westbrook is quick. We'll see.
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
What the heck?


We needed quality depth at WR at some point for sure. Idk why people were ignoring that as a need. Have no idea how much you can actually count on Lee, and the depth behind that is really thin and mostly proven to be mediocre at best...and that's probably being generous.

Not sure about Westbrook specifically. But whatever i guess. The guy in a similar mold i really really wanted in Carlos Henderson went a good while ago yesterday. So...eh...Westbrook is quick. We'll see.


Dede talent wise was a projected late 1st/2nd rd type guy. Reason he fell is off field concerns, but talent wise, this is a steal.

Did I want a WR in rd 4 with our TE and IOL situation? Nah. But they seem to feel better about the guys than fans. As long as we're going with very talented guys, I'm cool. This guy can really ball...just seems like a risk as far as character goes. But with Tom in the house, you have to know he vetted the hell out of him.
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DuvalsKing


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
What the heck?


We needed quality depth at WR at some point for sure. Idk why people were ignoring that as a need. Have no idea how much you can actually count on Lee, and the depth behind that is really thin and mostly proven to be mediocre at best...and that's probably being generous.

Not sure about Westbrook specifically. But whatever i guess. The guy in a similar mold i really really wanted in Carlos Henderson went a good while ago yesterday. So...eh...Westbrook is quick. We'll see.


Dede talent wise was a projected late 1st/2nd rd type guy. Reason he fell is off field concerns, but talent wise, this is a steal.

Did I want a WR in rd 4 with our TE and IOL situation? Nah. But they seem to feel better about the guys than fans. As long as we're going with very talented guys, I'm cool. This guy can really ball...just seems like a risk as far as character goes. But with Tom in the house, you have to know he vetted the hell out of him.


Especially after the fiasco with Coughlin and RJ Soward.. you better believe Coughlin checked this kid out. Sometimes you just have to take a stab at the talent side of the pick. Belicheck has taken flyers on players with issues its not going to stop him from drafting 1 because of a few bad experiences with other players.. its a game of craps at times in the NFL. Coughlin just rolled the dice hopefully it pays off.
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Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwiw the issues were from 2012 and 2013.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
fwiw the issues were from 2012 and 2013.


Yup, Caldwell said they feel strongly it's long behind him. Not liking what he said at the combine (wording), but I mean the talent is there. WR wasn't a need for this season, but the likelyhood of paying 3 different WR's isn't high. One of Lee, Hurns, and A-Rob are likely gone next year. Dede helps bring another dimension to our team. Getting a ton of talent on that O with Fournette/Robinson/Dede.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know people want to keep building the o-line and throwing picks at it but clearly they believe in the guys in building and you can see this o-line class has really been bad. You have to look at how the league is trending its becoming a more 7 on 7 game just look at this years draft and how small the linebackers are they all look like Telvin damn near, athletic and able to cover. Jags have been ahead of that trend in that sense. Over 30 DBs have come off the board so far.. and that shows how bad this o-line class truly is no GM is really reaching on them.
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Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who we thinking round 5?

I'm just expecting BPA at this point. I'd love a TE as I'm a little iffy on Rivera/Koyack being our top TE, but they seem to like both. Think a guy like Butt or Kittle in rd 5 definitely presents a BPA possiblity, so fingers crossed.
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
What the heck?


We needed quality depth at WR at some point for sure. Idk why people were ignoring that as a need. Have no idea how much you can actually count on Lee, and the depth behind that is really thin and mostly proven to be mediocre at best...and that's probably being generous.

Not sure about Westbrook specifically. But whatever i guess. The guy in a similar mold i really really wanted in Carlos Henderson went a good while ago yesterday. So...eh...Westbrook is quick. We'll see.


Dede talent wise was a projected late 1st/2nd rd type guy. Reason he fell is off field concerns, but talent wise, this is a steal.

Did I want a WR in rd 4 with our TE and IOL situation? Nah. But they seem to feel better about the guys than fans. As long as we're going with very talented guys, I'm cool. This guy can really ball...just seems like a risk as far as character goes. But with Tom in the house, you have to know he vetted the hell out of him.


I'm glad they went WR. I'd call it a need as much as a lot of other spots. We've got 3 guys, and one of them has a long history of being banged up (prior to last year where he was unusually healthy). After that, if you get one injury to a WR...your starting slot is like...Rashad Greene or Bryan Walters, which isn't great. So i'm totally on board with grabbing a pass catcher with upside there. Probably because i have almost no faith in Lee being reliable. But anyway...

Just really not into a guy with Westbrook's off field resume. But i guess have to trust that they've really done their due diligence on him. Hard to imagine Coughlin would be putting his okay on it if things didn't check out. Not even really a fear it's going to happen again, so much as just...hard to cheer for people like that. But whatever. Nothing i can do about it, maybe he really has changed.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
What the heck?


We needed quality depth at WR at some point for sure. Idk why people were ignoring that as a need. Have no idea how much you can actually count on Lee, and the depth behind that is really thin and mostly proven to be mediocre at best...and that's probably being generous.

Not sure about Westbrook specifically. But whatever i guess. The guy in a similar mold i really really wanted in Carlos Henderson went a good while ago yesterday. So...eh...Westbrook is quick. We'll see.


Dede talent wise was a projected late 1st/2nd rd type guy. Reason he fell is off field concerns, but talent wise, this is a steal.

Did I want a WR in rd 4 with our TE and IOL situation? Nah. But they seem to feel better about the guys than fans. As long as we're going with very talented guys, I'm cool. This guy can really ball...just seems like a risk as far as character goes. But with Tom in the house, you have to know he vetted the hell out of him.


I'm glad they went WR. I'd call it a need as much as a lot of other spots. We've got 3 guys, and one of them has a long history of being banged up (prior to last year where he was unusually healthy). After that, if you get one injury to a WR...your starting slot is like...Rashad Greene or Bryan Walters, which isn't great. So i'm totally on board with grabbing a pass catcher with upside there. Probably because i have almost no faith in Lee being reliable. But anyway...

Just really not into a guy with Westbrook's off field resume. But i guess have to trust that they've really done their due diligence on him. Hard to imagine Coughlin would be putting his okay on it if things didn't check out. Not even really a fear it's going to happen again, so much as just...hard to cheer for people like that. But whatever. Nothing i can do about it, maybe he really has changed.


If DeDe can stay healthy his body is similar to Lee's he is just taller and faster he ran a 4.38 and a 4.34 at his pro day . He doesn't have the wiggle Lee has in the open field but he can be a game changer if he can consistently get behind defenses. Hopefully his frame is going to be able to withstand a beating, because he is kind of small. This can be a boom or bust pick this kids attitude will be the only thing holding him back. He should be able to learn from Keenan this year learn how to be a pro's pro and Keenan can help this kid grow mentally.
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Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 3760
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
What the heck?


We needed quality depth at WR at some point for sure. Idk why people were ignoring that as a need. Have no idea how much you can actually count on Lee, and the depth behind that is really thin and mostly proven to be mediocre at best...and that's probably being generous.

Not sure about Westbrook specifically. But whatever i guess. The guy in a similar mold i really really wanted in Carlos Henderson went a good while ago yesterday. So...eh...Westbrook is quick. We'll see.


Dede talent wise was a projected late 1st/2nd rd type guy. Reason he fell is off field concerns, but talent wise, this is a steal.

Did I want a WR in rd 4 with our TE and IOL situation? Nah. But they seem to feel better about the guys than fans. As long as we're going with very talented guys, I'm cool. This guy can really ball...just seems like a risk as far as character goes. But with Tom in the house, you have to know he vetted the hell out of him.


I'm glad they went WR. I'd call it a need as much as a lot of other spots. We've got 3 guys, and one of them has a long history of being banged up (prior to last year where he was unusually healthy). After that, if you get one injury to a WR...your starting slot is like...Rashad Greene or Bryan Walters, which isn't great. So i'm totally on board with grabbing a pass catcher with upside there. Probably because i have almost no faith in Lee being reliable. But anyway...

Just really not into a guy with Westbrook's off field resume. But i guess have to trust that they've really done their due diligence on him. Hard to imagine Coughlin would be putting his okay on it if things didn't check out. Not even really a fear it's going to happen again, so much as just...hard to cheer for people like that. But whatever. Nothing i can do about it, maybe he really has changed.


Very true on the lack of depth side of things.

I'm not really sure what to think as far as off-the-field problems go. Dave had a pretty telling quote in his after the pick interview. Sure sounded to me like based on all the people they talked to when studying Westbrook they think the reports were either not completely true/maybe some things weren't even true at all.

All his problems also were back in 2012/2013 I think, so hopefully that's a sign further pointing to it being behind him. Always was a fan of the football talent on this guy, just never really expected a WR in the first few rounds.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess people forget about the days of Reggie Williams, and Matt Jones. This is one of those picks that ensures you keep the stable full and that will make sure that you don't revert back to those days. Thats why teams like Pittsburg can go from Hines Ward to Palaxico to Santonio Holmes to Antonio Brown you are not going to stay relevant if you don't get ahead of issues and have a bridge to the next sustainable talent. If we lose both Lee and Allen this offseason and all we have is Hurns people will be looking pretty crazy going into the 18 draft plus they'll be pissed.

Every guy you draft is not going to be squeaky clean if he turns out to be Honey Badger 2.0 and you never hear from him off the field again its a win. Its a 4th rounder you have to take flyers on guys and chances. But if he can get a return on a round 1 talent in the 4th its a W. Coughlin has dealt with Andre Rison and RJ Soward he will send you to the wavier wire. Coughlin doesn't care if he pans out or not he is providing him with an opportunity he will either cease it or blow his chance. If this guy gets with coach Keenan a pro's pro and he mentors this kid and helps him get stable and mature it could pay out over time. If he can't get a hold of his attitude then he'll be on another roster. If this kid takes off on the field and you have a wild card birth, what he did off the field in 2013 will be the furthest thing from your mind especially if he was a key contributor.
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Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Posts: 5206
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
I guess people forget about the days of Reggie Williams, and Matt Jones. This is one of those picks that ensures you keep the stable full and that will make sure that you don't revert back to those days. Thats why teams like Pittsburg can go from Hines Ward to Palaxico to Santonio Holmes to Antonio Brown you are not going to stay relevant if you don't get ahead of issues and have a bridge to the next sustainable talent. If we lose both Lee and Allen this offseason and all we have is Hurns people will be looking pretty crazy going into the 18 draft plus they'll be pissed.

Every guy you draft is not going to be squeaky clean if he turns out to be Honey Badger 2.0 and you never hear from him off the field again its a win. Its a 4th rounder you have to take flyers on guys and chances. But if he can get a return on a round 1 talent in the 4th its a W. Coughlin has dealt with Andre Rison and RJ Soward he will send you to the wavier wire. Coughlin doesn't care if he pans out or not he is providing him with an opportunity he will either cease it or blow his chance. If this guy gets with coach Keenan a pro's pro and he mentors this kid and helps him get stable and mature. If he can't get a hold of his attitude then he'll be on another roster. If this kid takes off on the field and you have a wild card birth, what he did off the field in 2013 will be the furthest thing from your mind especially if he was a key contributor.



The bolded is the problem though. For me, that's just not true.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it needs to be said that he was never charged with anything.

No idea if he did what he was accused of, though it is always suspicious when there are numerous accusation, but I don't like this 'assumption of guilt' thing.

Either way, hopefully any and all controversy is in the past and Westbrook is nothing but an upstanding citizen of Duval.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
I think it needs to be said that he was never charged with anything.

No idea if he did what he was accused of, though it is always suspicious when there are numerous accusation, but I don't like this 'assumption of guilt' thing.

Either way, hopefully any and all controversy is in the past and Westbrook is nothing but an upstanding citizen of Duval.


This is my thing with it. Based on what Caldwell said, it helps my thoughts towards that situation as like I said, these guys dig soooo deep into these guys and talk to so many people that were likely involved in situations like this.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might have been said but according to ESPN our big board was Garrett-Thomas-LF-Adams and we never had a call about trading...not sure i buy the 2nd part
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