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2016 NFCE Discussion Thread VIII
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10483
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.
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Nabbs4u


Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 29229
Location: 1st Ballot Eagles HOF 3x Gold Standard 09' /10 '/11' 2X ENBD/Pick em Winner Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
I stand by my opinion that I am thankful for the Cowboys Stupidity in the past couple of drafts "quote unquote" the value was to great to pass on these players despite the signs as well as FA.

2017 Rd 3: Jourdan Lewis
2016 Rd 2: Jaylon Smith (missed entire rookie year due to injury)
2015 Rd 2: Randy Gregory
2014 Rd 2 DeMarcus Lawrence
FA
Rolando McClain
Greg Hardy




Just think what the Girls would look like say this happened instead?

To early to tell but
2017 Rd 3: CB Cameron Sutton, Cordrea Tankersly, Rasul Douglas
2016 Rd 2: LB Deion Jones, Myles Jack , WR Michael Thomas
2015 Rd 2: LB Jordan Hicks
2014 Rd 2 DE Stephon Tuitt, DE Kony Early, LB Trent Murphy, DT Timmy Jernnigan, WR Davonte Adams, WR Jarvis Landry,

FA spent their money on 2 of these players as Cowboys for the past 3 years
Michael Johnson
Brian Orakpo
Vince Wilfolk
Brooks Reed

Jabaal Shears


LOL - playing the hypothetical game. I mean, what if we had drafted Brady in 00? What if yall had?

This is a dumb game, no matter which team you root for. And, again, if Smith is our starting MLB in Sept - this looks entirely different. IF he never plays a down or sucks due to his drop foot, then get @me.


But it's easy to play hindsight is 20/20 game when your FO was ignoring what 31 other teams in the NFL did for the same players. There were reasons they dropped to the 2nd/3rd dropping out of the 1st. Reasons players like Lawrence were reaches out of desperation because of need. Right now your hinging all hopes on Jaylon Smith being a Stud yet could of had Deion Jones with no question marks? Not taken a Chronic Pot head and took Home Town Jordan Hicks? Reached as and Organization on Lawrence as though you're smarter then the average bear instead of the 7 players listed above?

Even you have to admit at some point the decesion making or lack there of has been horrific thus far on those players. The real reason your defense has Sucked and will continue to hold the Girls from going anywhere. If not get @Me after the season when the Cowboys still have the worst Defense in the Division and went nowhere with a alternative argument.
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TheRealMcCoy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
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Location: Inland Empire
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 48978
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Laughing If Moses is JAG, then all those Dallas 3rd round picks are JAGs. Trying to attribute overall team success to a few years' worth of 3rd round picks is laughable.


Literally Moses is a guy that I barely even know of - and I watch plenty Skins game. He is the 'Wilcox' of RT. A guy that makes a couple plays a game and other wise is just there. Maybe I am way off base. I have been wrong before. But Ive never been like "how can we ever attack Moses, he is so good"


Your ignorance is cute.
Quote:

The Washington Redskins signed right tackle Morgan Moses to 5-year contract extension on Thursday, making him the second highest paid right tackle in football.

In his first two seasons as the starting right tackle, Moses has graded as a top 10 player at the position. His 2016 season grade of 85.1 crowned his finest season as a pro, and ranked him as the eighth highest graded right tackle in the league.

Moses received a pass blocking grade of 85.1 (ranking him eighth in the league among right tackles) and a run blocking grade of 82.0 (ranking him fifth).

Moses allowed just five sacks and three quarterback hits in 648 pass blocking snaps, earning him a pass blocking efficiency of 96.0, tying him for the 14th best mark among all tackles in the league.

With the new signing of Moses and last year’s extension of Trent Williams (2016 overall grade of 90.6 – the highest graded tackle in football), the Redskins have potentially secured elite-level bookend tackles for the next five seasons.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-washington-signs-morgan-moses-to-a-5-year-extension/


This kinda proves my point, actually. Your RT is above guys named 'Wagner' and "Dotson". Other people no one will care about in 2 years. Ive already conceded that you got a RT out of the deal; what else do you want?
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Laughing If Moses is JAG, then all those Dallas 3rd round picks are JAGs. Trying to attribute overall team success to a few years' worth of 3rd round picks is laughable.


Literally Moses is a guy that I barely even know of - and I watch plenty Skins game. He is the 'Wilcox' of RT. A guy that makes a couple plays a game and other wise is just there. Maybe I am way off base. I have been wrong before. But Ive never been like "how can we ever attack Moses, he is so good"


Your ignorance is cute.
Quote:

The Washington Redskins signed right tackle Morgan Moses to 5-year contract extension on Thursday, making him the second highest paid right tackle in football.

In his first two seasons as the starting right tackle, Moses has graded as a top 10 player at the position. His 2016 season grade of 85.1 crowned his finest season as a pro, and ranked him as the eighth highest graded right tackle in the league.

Moses received a pass blocking grade of 85.1 (ranking him eighth in the league among right tackles) and a run blocking grade of 82.0 (ranking him fifth).

Moses allowed just five sacks and three quarterback hits in 648 pass blocking snaps, earning him a pass blocking efficiency of 96.0, tying him for the 14th best mark among all tackles in the league.

With the new signing of Moses and last year’s extension of Trent Williams (2016 overall grade of 90.6 – the highest graded tackle in football), the Redskins have potentially secured elite-level bookend tackles for the next five seasons.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-washington-signs-morgan-moses-to-a-5-year-extension/


This kinda proves my point, actually. Your RT is above guys named 'Wagner' and "Dotson". Other people no one will care about in 2 years. Ive already conceded that you got a RT out of the deal; what else do you want?


Your logic is terrible. Just because you personally have never heard of the guys he is ranked ahead of does not make him a JAG.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10483
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheRealMcCoy wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.


Laughing My bad. Got too lazy responding on my phone. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. I was saying I might take Collins but wouldn't take Hicks over Reed.

Our whole offense runs through Reed and he is arguably top 3 at his position, so there's no way I'd replace him with Hicks, who I really like, and who is a stud against the pass but I question his run defense and why his tackles are so low. The top players at his position like Kuechly, Wagner, Lee, etc. rack up tackles like it's nothing. So I think he has weaknesses as well.
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Jeezla


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 19179
Location: 805
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.


Laughing My bad. Got too lazy responding on my phone. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. I was saying I might take Collins but wouldn't take Hicks over Reed.

Our whole offense runs through Reed and he is arguably top 3 at his position, so there's no way I'd replace him with Hicks, who I really like, and who is a stud against the pass but I question his run defense and why his tackles are so low. The top players at his position like Kuechly, Wagner, Lee, etc. rack up tackles like it's nothing. So I think he has weaknesses as well.

Reed, Graham, Ertz, Kelce, and every "TE" that can't block for crap should just be called an In-line WR. Jordan Reed is very good in-line WR, but a terrible TE, since half of your job as a "TE" is to block people. Zach Ertz is an average In-line WR, and a horrific TE. TE is the only position in football where you can be flat out be bad at half your job, yet you can still be considered top 5 at your position. Makes no sense to me. If Jimmy Graham gets 1200 yards and 12 td's, people will say he was the best TE in the league. Meanwhile Kyle Rudolph is doing all of the job description at an above average level, and isn't even considered top 5. It's silly to me.
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Last edited by Jeezla on Tue May 16, 2017 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19081
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezla wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.


Laughing My bad. Got too lazy responding on my phone. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. I was saying I might take Collins but wouldn't take Hicks over Reed.

Our whole offense runs through Reed and he is arguably top 3 at his position, so there's no way I'd replace him with Hicks, who I really like, and who is a stud against the pass but I question his run defense and why his tackles are so low. The top players at his position like Kuechly, Wagner, Lee, etc. rack up tackles like it's nothing. So I think he has weaknesses as well.

Reed, Graham, Ertz, Kelce, and every "TE" that can't block for crap should just be called an In-line WR. Jordan Reed is very good in-line WR, but a terrible TE, since half of your job as a "TE" is to block people. Zach Ertz is an average In-line WR, and a horrific TE. TE is the only position in football where you can be flat out be bad at half your job, yet you can still be considered top 5 at your position. Makes no sense to me.
Reeds blocking got better last year. When he's healthy he's a pretty dominant receiving threat. He has great rapport with Cousins too.
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Jeezla


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 19179
Location: 805
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Jeezla wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.


Laughing My bad. Got too lazy responding on my phone. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. I was saying I might take Collins but wouldn't take Hicks over Reed.

Our whole offense runs through Reed and he is arguably top 3 at his position, so there's no way I'd replace him with Hicks, who I really like, and who is a stud against the pass but I question his run defense and why his tackles are so low. The top players at his position like Kuechly, Wagner, Lee, etc. rack up tackles like it's nothing. So I think he has weaknesses as well.

Reed, Graham, Ertz, Kelce, and every "TE" that can't block for crap should just be called an In-line WR. Jordan Reed is very good in-line WR, but a terrible TE, since half of your job as a "TE" is to block people. Zach Ertz is an average In-line WR, and a horrific TE. TE is the only position in football where you can be flat out be bad at half your job, yet you can still be considered top 5 at your position. Makes no sense to me.
Reeds blocking got better last year. When he's healthy he's a pretty dominant receiving threat. He has great rapport with Cousins too.

Ertz blocking was better last year too. It's still garbage overall, and I expect pass rushers to feast on Ertz and Reed in 1 on 1 situations, period.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10483
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezla wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
Jeezla wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.


Laughing My bad. Got too lazy responding on my phone. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. I was saying I might take Collins but wouldn't take Hicks over Reed.

Our whole offense runs through Reed and he is arguably top 3 at his position, so there's no way I'd replace him with Hicks, who I really like, and who is a stud against the pass but I question his run defense and why his tackles are so low. The top players at his position like Kuechly, Wagner, Lee, etc. rack up tackles like it's nothing. So I think he has weaknesses as well.

Reed, Graham, Ertz, Kelce, and every "TE" that can't block for crap should just be called an In-line WR. Jordan Reed is very good in-line WR, but a terrible TE, since half of your job as a "TE" is to block people. Zach Ertz is an average In-line WR, and a horrific TE. TE is the only position in football where you can be flat out be bad at half your job, yet you can still be considered top 5 at your position. Makes no sense to me.
Reeds blocking got better last year. When he's healthy he's a pretty dominant receiving threat. He has great rapport with Cousins too.

Ertz blocking was better last year too. It's still garbage overall, and I expect pass rushers to feast on Ertz and Reed in 1 on 1 situations, period.


I honestly can't remember seeing Reed ever pass protect. Why would you want him to? He's your best receiver. You want him out there running routes if you're calling a pass play. Anything else would be helping the defense out more than you're helping yourself. I really doubt Gronk spends much time pass blocking either.

When it comes to run blocking, it's actually more like 40%, since we passed on 62% of our plays last year. He can definitely improve there, but this is a passing league. You take an elite receiving TE that is below average at run blocking over an average "complete" TE 10 times out of 10.
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TheRealMcCoy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 15129
Location: Inland Empire
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.


Laughing My bad. Got too lazy responding on my phone. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. I was saying I might take Collins but wouldn't take Hicks over Reed.

Our whole offense runs through Reed and he is arguably top 3 at his position, so there's no way I'd replace him with Hicks, who I really like, and who is a stud against the pass but I question his run defense and why his tackles are so low. The top players at his position like Kuechly, Wagner, Lee, etc. rack up tackles like it's nothing. So I think he has weaknesses as well.

That's fair.

Hicks is the captain of our defense. He is a vocal leader out there and gets everyone lined up. He's pretty important for us.

I honestly didn't even realize Hicks tackles aren't as high until you just pointed it out. I do think it has a little bit to do with the scheme being designed to have the defensive lineman attack up field most of the time. In the 2 gap 3-4 we ran before Schwartz the job of the DL was to hold their position and let the LBs be the playmakers. Like Hicks was on pace to get close to 110 tackles as a rookie in that system before he got injured.

That still doesn't completely explain the difference though. Kuechly had 164 tackles as a rookie. He's a freak and future HoF though. Laughing
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EaglesPeteC


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Washington still have a football team?
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EaglesPeteC wrote:
Does Washington still have a football team?


HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
EaglesPeteC wrote:
Cowboys suck.
Giants too.


Are the Redskins still a team?


I hope so. It would be embarrassing for you guys to lose so many times in a row to a non-NFL team Laughing
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FlyEaglesFly193


Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Posts: 447
Location: Washington PA
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezla wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
TheRealMcCoy wrote:
TBH I'd take Jordan Hicks or Landon Collins over Jordan Reed.


Hicks, no. Collins, maybe. But he was a 2nd round pick.

Not sure what you are saying no and maybe to... its my opinion. Laughing

Anyways, Reed is a great player as well, but Hicks plays a more important position, has no real weakness (like Reed w/ blocking), and is younger.

I did mess up with Collins though, so thanks for the correction.


Laughing My bad. Got too lazy responding on my phone. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. I was saying I might take Collins but wouldn't take Hicks over Reed.

Our whole offense runs through Reed and he is arguably top 3 at his position, so there's no way I'd replace him with Hicks, who I really like, and who is a stud against the pass but I question his run defense and why his tackles are so low. The top players at his position like Kuechly, Wagner, Lee, etc. rack up tackles like it's nothing. So I think he has weaknesses as well.

Reed, Graham, Ertz, Kelce, and every "TE" that can't block for crap should just be called an In-line WR. Jordan Reed is very good in-line WR, but a terrible TE, since half of your job as a "TE" is to block people. Zach Ertz is an average In-line WR, and a horrific TE. TE is the only position in football where you can be flat out be bad at half your job, yet you can still be considered top 5 at your position. Makes no sense to me. If Jimmy Graham gets 1200 yards and 12 td's, people will say he was the best TE in the league. Meanwhile Kyle Rudolph is doing all of the job description at an above average level, and isn't even considered top 5. It's silly to me.


Applause
Hate the Pats but Gronk is the best but after that it is all preference but you have a point TEs are probably going to become big slot receivers and TE will become extinct like FBs Boo hoo! Pretty soon with all the rule changes to make less and less contact QBs are going to be throwing for 7000 yards a season and 50 tds... and after they ban handoffs and running backs are now RBs (receiving backs Laughing) Pumphery will be the leagues biggest star and Dougie P will be considered the GOAT Think but bottomline this bud I had was pretty amazing lol
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EaglesPeteC


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 6190
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
EaglesPeteC wrote:
Does Washington still have a football team?


HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
EaglesPeteC wrote:
Cowboys suck.
Giants too.


Are the Redskins still a team?


I hope so. It would be embarrassing for you guys to lose so many times in a row to a non-NFL team Laughing


Doesn't ring a bell.
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