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2016 NFCE Discussion Thread VIII
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 2133
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Pretty sure he was a big contributor towards putting teams into 3rd and long situations.


One way to look at it, but almost always when below average corners get covered up is by a strong pass rush, regardless of down and distance.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:

You can get away with having average corners, if you have a great defensive line. Think about the Giants SB teams and tell me if you remember any of the corners on those rosters?

And we don't even know what Bennie signed for yet, but I doubt he broke the bank for the Chiefs. We have $4MM invested in corner, because that's how Howie has decided to play it this year. It's clear to me we'll be drafting some rookies and trying to plug and play. I'd actually be ok with that approach if we had a stronger defensive line. I don't see us spending much more in free agency unless we can grab a cheap DB.

And regardless of any of this, my entire point is that the downgrade from Torrey Smith (or a rookie if we drafted one) to DGB or Agholor is fairly minimal. The downgrade from Logan to Allen as a starter is pretty significant. That money could've been better spent... and then there's the QB contract fiasco.


Yes we do, he signed for 8 million.

And citing paying Logan to help the corners doesn't make much sense considering he's a non factor in the pass rush department.


Ah, I hadn't seen that yet. Thanks for the info. That would be a tough pill to swallow.

And yes, as our RG3 loving friend stated, he did a lot on early downs to make it easier on the corners. I would've liked to see him continue to improve his pass rushing ability as well, but I also think he was better than his sack numbers would lead most to believe.
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 2133
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:

Ah, I hadn't seen that yet. Thanks for the info. That would be a tough pill to swallow.

And yes, as our RG3 loving friend stated, he did a lot on early downs to make it easier on the corners. I would've liked to see him continue to improve his pass rushing ability as well, but I also think he was better than his sack numbers would lead most to believe.


For whatever reason guys like Bennie become expendable to a lot of teams.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:

Ah, I hadn't seen that yet. Thanks for the info. That would be a tough pill to swallow.

And yes, as our RG3 loving friend stated, he did a lot on early downs to make it easier on the corners. I would've liked to see him continue to improve his pass rushing ability as well, but I also think he was better than his sack numbers would lead most to believe.


For whatever reason guys like Bennie become expendable to a lot of teams.


Well, to your point, he's not a complete DT. Cox is much more that, although I'd argue his pass rushing arsenal still needs a lot of improvement. But I feel that lumping Logan in as a run stuffer is a disservice to him. A guy like Cedric Thornton is a block eater and run stuffer, Bennie Logan is definitely a superior talent to Ced.
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Nabbs4u


Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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Location: 1st Ballot Eagles HOF 3x Gold Standard 09' /10 '/11' 2X ENBD/Pick em Winner Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone find me stats on QB hurries and or tackles behind the LOS? Because that was the disruptive force I always remembered seeing when he was healthy. People get caught up with Dumb @$$ sack totals way to much as the "un" pass rusher.. A DT/DL who hurries the QB is just as valuable if not more. Go ask Graham.. Something I think Logan did his fair share of as well.
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 2133
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Anyone find me stats on QB hurries and or tackles behind the LOS? Because that was the disruptive force I always remembered seeing when he was healthy. People get caught up with Dumb @$$ sack totals way to much as the "un" pass rusher.. A DT/DL who hurries the QB is just as valuable if not more. Go ask Graham.. Something I think Logan did his fair share of as well.


Logan QB Hurries:

2016: 9. Good for 117th in the league
2015: 5. Good for 191st in the league
2014: 5. Good for 124th in the league
2013: No idea, didn't even register in the top 200

Clearly a disruptive force with those hurries.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/defensive-hurries/2016/

TFL stats

2016: 5. Good for 140th in the league
2015: 9. Good for 64th in the league
2014: 8. Good for 89th in the league


Monster. Pay the man.
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jaymiz


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Anyone find me stats on QB hurries and or tackles behind the LOS? Because that was the disruptive force I always remembered seeing when he was healthy. People get caught up with Dumb @$$ sack totals way to much as the "un" pass rusher.. A DT/DL who hurries the QB is just as valuable if not more. Go ask Graham.. Something I think Logan did his fair share of as well.


Logan QB Hurries:

2016: 9. Good for 117th in the league
2015: 5. Good for 191st in the league
2014: 5. Good for 124th in the league
2013: No idea, didn't even register in the top 200

Clearly a disruptive force with those hurries.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/defensive-hurries/2016/

TFL stats

2016: 5. Good for 140th in the league
2015: 9. Good for 64th in the league
2014: 8. Good for 89th in the league


Monster. Pay the man.


Bennie was an asset in the run game. He had a good motor and played hard. I think saying anything otherwise would be fishing for compliments. We will feel his loss in the run game, but Beau was probably equally as good rushing the passer.


That being said, having a Reuben Foster or Soloman Thomas fall into our lap at 14 will make you likely not notice Bennie is gone when teams run the ball on us.
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Nabbs4u


Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 28998
Location: 1st Ballot Eagles HOF 3x Gold Standard 09' /10 '/11' 2X ENBD/Pick em Winner Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Anyone find me stats on QB hurries and or tackles behind the LOS? Because that was the disruptive force I always remembered seeing when he was healthy. People get caught up with Dumb @$$ sack totals way to much as the "un" pass rusher.. A DT/DL who hurries the QB is just as valuable if not more. Go ask Graham.. Something I think Logan did his fair share of as well.


Logan QB Hurries:

2016: 9. Good for 117th in the league
2015: 5. Good for 191st in the league
2014: 5. Good for 124th in the league
2013: No idea, didn't even register in the top 200

Clearly a disruptive force with those hurries.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/defensive-hurries/2016/

TFL stats

2016: 5. Good for 140th in the league
2015: 9. Good for 64th in the league
2014: 8. Good for 89th in the league


Monster. Pay the man.


How about the previous years when he wasn't Injured?
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Phire


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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: #FSU #2012 Eagles HoF #2012 Gold Standard #YAKtoseIntolerant #TrollyRangers #Danes #CAVALRY #DERWIN
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In no way was Logan elite. But he was a solid guy in the rotation who wouldn't get blown off the ball. He joined us for the Billy Davis 3-4 if I recall, so keep that in mind when looking at stats. He would have had to develop into more of a pass rusher in the Schwartz defense.
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 2133
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:
Jlash wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Anyone find me stats on QB hurries and or tackles behind the LOS? Because that was the disruptive force I always remembered seeing when he was healthy. People get caught up with Dumb @$$ sack totals way to much as the "un" pass rusher.. A DT/DL who hurries the QB is just as valuable if not more. Go ask Graham.. Something I think Logan did his fair share of as well.


Logan QB Hurries:

2016: 9. Good for 117th in the league
2015: 5. Good for 191st in the league
2014: 5. Good for 124th in the league
2013: No idea, didn't even register in the top 200

Clearly a disruptive force with those hurries.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/defensive-hurries/2016/

TFL stats

2016: 5. Good for 140th in the league
2015: 9. Good for 64th in the league
2014: 8. Good for 89th in the league


Monster. Pay the man.


How about the previous years when he wasn't Injured?


What previous years? 2013 was his first season.

Do you think he was hurt for the past 3 years?
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Hockey5djh


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 20921
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blick, normally we agree on most things but this one is a sheer numbers game.

I will concede that our defense lost a little bit with Bennie out of the line-up and Beau/Vaeao in and I've already made my feelings known about how dumb the whole Foles/Daniel fiasco is. That said the 1T DT is a replaceable player and not something that you should be spending 8 mil a year on, especially with 3 other big contracts on the line.

This is a very dumb way to generalize it but go find the 320+ lb DT in the draft that's not a complete athletic slug and more than likely he'll be a solid 1T.
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This is the eagles we are talking about here. This will all blow up in our faces not work.

Source: experience.
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JayWood2010


Joined: 30 Dec 2015
Posts: 782
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So i didnt know about this until today, but apparently Zeke Elliot pulled a woman's shirt down at a St Patrick's Day parade. Possible suspension incoming. He seems to be on the borderline of trouble most of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjK2wxfopk
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Phire


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JayWood2010 wrote:
So i didnt know about this until today, but apparently Zeke Elliot pulled a woman's shirt down at a St Patrick's Day parade. Possible suspension incoming. He seems to be on the borderline of trouble most of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjK2wxfopk

It's a bad look but we don't really know what their relationship is/was. If it was a total stranger who told him not to do it, and he proceeded anyways, that's one thing, but if it's a friend or girlfriend who was fine with just doing dumb drunk young people things then I don't see how you suspend the guy. From what I know TMZ was hoping the story would blow up but it didn't because people assumed they were just doing dumb young people things.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
Blick, normally we agree on most things but this one is a sheer numbers game.

I will concede that our defense lost a little bit with Bennie out of the line-up and Beau/Vaeao in and I've already made my feelings known about how dumb the whole Foles/Daniel fiasco is. That said the 1T DT is a replaceable player and not something that you should be spending 8 mil a year on, especially with 3 other big contracts on the line.

This is a very dumb way to generalize it but go find the 320+ lb DT in the draft that's not a complete athletic slug and more than likely he'll be a solid 1T.


Yeah, I conceded that when I found out what the Chiefs paid him. I honestly thought he'd be closer to $5MM a year, in which case, I thought the money from Torrey Smith would be better served resigning a stronger player on the d-line instead. But at that cost, you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. It just sucks we paid Curry boat loads of dough based on potential that has yet to pan out and let Bennie walk even though he has done exactly what we've asked of him during his time here.

But to your last point, that is a gross generalization. These guys don't grow on trees, at least not the ones that are as disruptive as Bennie was.
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
Posts: 2133
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
JayWood2010 wrote:
So i didnt know about this until today, but apparently Zeke Elliot pulled a woman's shirt down at a St Patrick's Day parade. Possible suspension incoming. He seems to be on the borderline of trouble most of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjK2wxfopk

It's a bad look but we don't really know what their relationship is/was. If it was a total stranger who told him not to do it, and he proceeded anyways, that's one thing, but if it's a friend or girlfriend who was fine with just doing dumb drunk young people things then I don't see how you suspend the guy. From what I know TMZ was hoping the story would blow up but it didn't because people assumed they were just doing dumb young people things.


Meh, he can still get in trouble for violating the personal conduct policy. I'd imagine pulling a girls titty out (whether they were friends or not) in public doesn't sit well with Goodell coming from a guy with lady trouble in his past. The NFL is a private entity and can punish employees regardless if any charges come of it.
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