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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.
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Jroc04


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 13491
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.


This is accurate.

I liked Bennie but he either fell off last year or was hurt or whatever. I didn't see what I saw two years ago when he looked to be coming into a dominate player. And if you can't be somewhat dominate playing next to Cox then I'm not paying you big money. I can find another guy to have a relatively easy role and be able to flourish.

Jlash is right, if I'm not paying someone on my line, it's my 2nd DT. It's just simple mathematics. You can't pay everyone. A young kid could step in and be effective and be cheap for 4 years. I'd rather do that and focus on some real weaknesses.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.


People love Dontarie Poe right? Well, Logan has more stuffs in one season than he has in his entire career. You're criminally undervaluing him. Look at what a guy like Damon Harrison did for the Giants defense last year. That type of disruption doesn't show up on the stat sheet every week, but its impact on the defense is profound. Ultimately, you're right in that it is hard to warrant spending that much across the defensive line, but Howie by giving Curry the unwarranted contract that he did, Howie paid the wrong guy. He paid for potential instead of production and now we have production walking out the door. Hopefully, he proves that differently this year.
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milksteak


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.


This is accurate.

I liked Bennie but he either fell off last year or was hurt or whatever. I didn't see what I saw two years ago when he looked to be coming into a dominate player. And if you can't be somewhat dominate playing next to Cox then I'm not paying you big money. I can find another guy to have a relatively easy role and be able to flourish.

Jlash is right, if I'm not paying someone on my line, it's my 2nd DT. It's just simple mathematics. You can't pay everyone. A young kid could step in and be effective and be cheap for 4 years. I'd rather do that and focus on some real weaknesses.


Also, when they are surrounded by some quality vets they should play to the best of their abilities. Beau Allen always comes in and plays well, if we get someone in the 3rd or 4th we should have a better version of that.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.


This is accurate.

I liked Bennie but he either fell off last year or was hurt or whatever. I didn't see what I saw two years ago when he looked to be coming into a dominate player. And if you can't be somewhat dominate playing next to Cox then I'm not paying you big money. I can find another guy to have a relatively easy role and be able to flourish.

Jlash is right, if I'm not paying someone on my line, it's my 2nd DT. It's just simple mathematics. You can't pay everyone. A young kid could step in and be effective and be cheap for 4 years. I'd rather do that and focus on some real weaknesses.


Right, instead you pay 2 backup QBs over $12MM a year. Laughing

Logan was hurt last year, I think it should be pretty obvious. If anything, that would've let us sign him for cheaper than we could've given his production the two previous years. Your logic doesn't make sense though. If it doesn't make sense to pay 2 DTs, then it doesn't make sense to pay 2 DEs. We're doing exactly that for way worse production. I'd much rather have two very good possibly elite DTs.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

milksteak wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.


This is accurate.

I liked Bennie but he either fell off last year or was hurt or whatever. I didn't see what I saw two years ago when he looked to be coming into a dominate player. And if you can't be somewhat dominate playing next to Cox then I'm not paying you big money. I can find another guy to have a relatively easy role and be able to flourish.

Jlash is right, if I'm not paying someone on my line, it's my 2nd DT. It's just simple mathematics. You can't pay everyone. A young kid could step in and be effective and be cheap for 4 years. I'd rather do that and focus on some real weaknesses.


Also, when they are surrounded by some quality vets they should play to the best of their abilities. Beau Allen always comes in and plays well, if we get someone in the 3rd or 4th we should have a better version of that.


Beau Allen plays best as a reserve. That's a completely different role. You guys are incredibly ignorant if you think anyone can just jump in and we'll get the same level of play. We got run all over in several games last year where Bennie was out or nicked up. One of the blessings we've had over the last several years is that our run defense is always there and consistent, there's a reason for that and goes beyond just having Fletch.
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:


Beau Allen plays best as a reserve. That's a completely different role. You guys are incredibly ignorant if you think anyone can just jump in and we'll get the same level of play. We got run all over in several games last year where Bennie was out or nicked up. One of the blessings we've had over the last several years is that our run defense is always there and consistent, there's a reason for that and goes beyond just having Fletch.


Dude, it doesn't matter. You already conceded they can't afford to pay 4 big money contracts. The wrong guys got the big deals. They need to draft a run stuffer, simple as that.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:


Beau Allen plays best as a reserve. That's a completely different role. You guys are incredibly ignorant if you think anyone can just jump in and we'll get the same level of play. We got run all over in several games last year where Bennie was out or nicked up. One of the blessings we've had over the last several years is that our run defense is always there and consistent, there's a reason for that and goes beyond just having Fletch.


Dude, it doesn't matter. You already conceded they can't afford to pay 4 big money contracts. The wrong guys got the big deals. They need to draft a run stuffer, simple as that.


Well, it does matter, because we now have a far inferior defensive line. And I'm not completely opposed to paying 4 d-lineman sizable deals if they are worth it. To me, the front 4 is the most important part of any defense. Combine that with a number of moves that I find downright foolish (Smith, Daniel/Foles, etc.), there's good reason why I have a gripe with them not bringing Logan back.
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milksteak


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:


Beau Allen plays best as a reserve. That's a completely different role. You guys are incredibly ignorant if you think anyone can just jump in and we'll get the same level of play. We got run all over in several games last year where Bennie was out or nicked up. One of the blessings we've had over the last several years is that our run defense is always there and consistent, there's a reason for that and goes beyond just having Fletch.


If I thought anyone could jump in and have the same level of play i wouldnt have mention drafting a guy. Also, i never said anything about the level of play being the same. Hopefully we find a guy who can play well and wont be too expensive and I believe they are walking into a role that helps facilitate that.
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nlesthought


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless both the overpaid DL and the inexperienced receiving core didn't play up to expectations.

Both groups need to play better, the only difference is the DL has been around longer thus they have bigger contracts.
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Jroc04


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.


This is accurate.

I liked Bennie but he either fell off last year or was hurt or whatever. I didn't see what I saw two years ago when he looked to be coming into a dominate player. And if you can't be somewhat dominate playing next to Cox then I'm not paying you big money. I can find another guy to have a relatively easy role and be able to flourish.

Jlash is right, if I'm not paying someone on my line, it's my 2nd DT. It's just simple mathematics. You can't pay everyone. A young kid could step in and be effective and be cheap for 4 years. I'd rather do that and focus on some real weaknesses.


Right, instead you pay 2 backup QBs over $12MM a year. Laughing

Logan was hurt last year, I think it should be pretty obvious. If anything, that would've let us sign him for cheaper than we could've given his production the two previous years. Your logic doesn't make sense though. If it doesn't make sense to pay 2 DTs, then it doesn't make sense to pay 2 DEs. We're doing exactly that for way worse production. I'd much rather have two very good possibly elite DTs.


I'm not defending the QB contracts. Daniel was a mistake but, at the time, they thought he was going to be the actual starter and Dougie wanted his man. And when we decided to move on, you do actually need a decent backup QB, thus Foles. I can see the logic but they are costly moves. That's clear.

Was Logan hurt? I know he missed games but was he hurt all year? I just didn't see the same level of play that I did the year previous. For the record, I didn't see it out of Fletcher the whole year either. But he commands double teams routinely, that I did notice.

My logic makes complete sense. I'm not saying to pay everyone big money on the DL except your 2nd DT. I'm saying, the 2nd DT is the least one I'm worried about. And he's easily the least valuable. You can look around the league, chances are teams are paying their two DEs way more than they are paying their DTs. That's always been the case. Pressuring and sacking the QB is at a premium and teams pay accordingly. I'm not going to defend the contracts but I'd want my ends being the focal point of my D. As long as the DTs are stout then that's fine. Bottom line, you can't pay Bennie the money he wanted. It wasn't feasible and financially irresponsible for the rest of the defense. You're forgetting we have about 4 million dollars invested in our CBs. That's not good. CB is one, if not two, on the defensive pecking order. It's scary we have barely any resources going there and you want to pay the role playing 2nd DT big money to stay while we currently have 0 caliber starting CBs. That logic doesn't make sense.
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Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
It sucks we lost Bennie but thank God he's not in the NFC EAST haunting Us for years to come.


Honestly, Howie screwed the pooch on that one. Paying a guy like Torrey Smith when you have someone as young and talented as Bennie Logan to lock up makes no sense to me.


You already have a ton of money wrapped up in the defensive line and your franchise QB has trash to throw to. Made sense to me.

Draft a run stuffer.


Or keep an elite D-line intact, and draft a speedy WR. Torrey Smith is a dime a dozen, Bennie Logan is not.


A run stuffer isn't as hard to find as you're making it seem. I think we're over valuing him a bit here.

I just don't think you can have 4 big money contracts on your defensive line and realistically expect to be able to fill the roster properly.


This is accurate.

I liked Bennie but he either fell off last year or was hurt or whatever. I didn't see what I saw two years ago when he looked to be coming into a dominate player. And if you can't be somewhat dominate playing next to Cox then I'm not paying you big money. I can find another guy to have a relatively easy role and be able to flourish.

Jlash is right, if I'm not paying someone on my line, it's my 2nd DT. It's just simple mathematics. You can't pay everyone. A young kid could step in and be effective and be cheap for 4 years. I'd rather do that and focus on some real weaknesses.


Right, instead you pay 2 backup QBs over $12MM a year. Laughing

Logan was hurt last year, I think it should be pretty obvious. If anything, that would've let us sign him for cheaper than we could've given his production the two previous years. Your logic doesn't make sense though. If it doesn't make sense to pay 2 DTs, then it doesn't make sense to pay 2 DEs. We're doing exactly that for way worse production. I'd much rather have two very good possibly elite DTs.


I'm not defending the QB contracts. Daniel was a mistake but, at the time, they thought he was going to be the actual starter and Dougie wanted his man. And when we decided to move on, you do actually need a decent backup QB, thus Foles. I can see the logic but they are costly moves. That's clear.

Was Logan hurt? I know he missed games but was he hurt all year? I just didn't see the same level of play that I did the year previous. For the record, I didn't see it out of Fletcher the whole year either. But he commands double teams routinely, that I did notice.

My logic makes complete sense. I'm not saying to pay everyone big money on the DL except your 2nd DT. I'm saying, the 2nd DT is the least one I'm worried about. And he's easily the least valuable. You can look around the league, chances are teams are paying their two DEs way more than they are paying their DTs. That's always been the case. Pressuring and sacking the QB is at a premium and teams pay accordingly. I'm not going to defend the contracts but I'd want my ends being the focal point of my D. As long as the DTs are stout then that's fine. Bottom line, you can't pay Bennie the money he wanted. It wasn't feasible and financially irresponsible for the rest of the defense. You're forgetting we have about 4 million dollars invested in our CBs. That's not good. CB is one, if not two, on the defensive pecking order. It's scary we have barely any resources going there and you want to pay the role playing 2nd DT big money to stay while we currently have 0 caliber starting CBs. That logic doesn't make sense.


You can get away with having average corners, if you have a great defensive line. Think about the Giants SB teams and tell me if you remember any of the corners on those rosters?

And we don't even know what Bennie signed for yet, but I doubt he broke the bank for the Chiefs. We have $4MM invested in corner, because that's how Howie has decided to play it this year. It's clear to me we'll be drafting some rookies and trying to plug and play. I'd actually be ok with that approach if we had a stronger defensive line. I don't see us spending much more in free agency unless we can grab a cheap DB.

And regardless of any of this, my entire point is that the downgrade from Torrey Smith (or a rookie if we drafted one) to DGB or Agholor is fairly minimal. The downgrade from Logan to Allen as a starter is pretty significant. That money could've been better spent... and then there's the QB contract fiasco.
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Jlash


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:

You can get away with having average corners, if you have a great defensive line. Think about the Giants SB teams and tell me if you remember any of the corners on those rosters?

And we don't even know what Bennie signed for yet, but I doubt he broke the bank for the Chiefs. We have $4MM invested in corner, because that's how Howie has decided to play it this year. It's clear to me we'll be drafting some rookies and trying to plug and play. I'd actually be ok with that approach if we had a stronger defensive line. I don't see us spending much more in free agency unless we can grab a cheap DB.

And regardless of any of this, my entire point is that the downgrade from Torrey Smith (or a rookie if we drafted one) to DGB or Agholor is fairly minimal. The downgrade from Logan to Allen as a starter is pretty significant. That money could've been better spent... and then there's the QB contract fiasco.


Yes we do, he signed for 8 million.

And citing paying Logan to help the corners doesn't make much sense considering he's a non factor in the pass rush department.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlash wrote:
BLick12 wrote:

You can get away with having average corners, if you have a great defensive line. Think about the Giants SB teams and tell me if you remember any of the corners on those rosters?

And we don't even know what Bennie signed for yet, but I doubt he broke the bank for the Chiefs. We have $4MM invested in corner, because that's how Howie has decided to play it this year. It's clear to me we'll be drafting some rookies and trying to plug and play. I'd actually be ok with that approach if we had a stronger defensive line. I don't see us spending much more in free agency unless we can grab a cheap DB.

And regardless of any of this, my entire point is that the downgrade from Torrey Smith (or a rookie if we drafted one) to DGB or Agholor is fairly minimal. The downgrade from Logan to Allen as a starter is pretty significant. That money could've been better spent... and then there's the QB contract fiasco.


Yes we do, he signed for 8 million.

And citing paying Logan to help the corners doesn't make much sense considering he's a non factor in the pass rush department.


Pretty sure he was a big contributor towards putting teams into 3rd and long situations.
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