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2017 Ravens Head Coach Thread
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11354
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danand wrote:
We have been a bad team this year, and a chosen vet strategy combined.


Flaccomania wrote:
He's decided to go with the veteran approach and it's biting us.


What do you guys mean by this? Does this mean playing veterans over younger players? What changes would you make to play who over who?

I feel like this isn't as big a problem this year, as it has been before. Perhaps, Albert McClellan wouldn't have played much if I was in charge, but we saw the young guys more last week. In fact, I think the overall willingness to change has been commendable this year. They dropped Trestman and Forsett quicker than I would have. We're playing Breshad Perriman a lot and letting him go through the growing pains on the field. I'm sure if we were starting Aiken (with Smith out), and keeping Breshad as an unknown on the bench, none of us would have been happy.

Our two best and most important young players (Mosley and Stanley) just happen to be out.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 802
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Danand wrote:
We have been a bad team this year, and a chosen vet strategy combined.


Flaccomania wrote:
He's decided to go with the veteran approach and it's biting us.


What do you guys mean by this? Does this mean playing veterans over younger players? What changes would you make to play who over who?

I feel like this isn't as big a problem this year, as it has been before. Perhaps, Albert McClellan wouldn't have played much if I was in charge, but we saw the young guys more last week. In fact, I think the overall willingness to change has been commendable this year. They dropped Trestman and Forsett quicker than I would have. We're playing Breshad Perriman a lot and letting him go through the growing pains on the field. I'm sure if we were starting Aiken (with Smith out), and keeping Breshad as an unknown on the bench, none of us would have been happy.

Our two best and most important young players (Mosley and Stanley) just happen to be out.


We have chosen to keep veterans on the team despite them being past their prime, and their contracts weighs a lot on our salary cap.

Its a double edged sword, because the veterans experience and actual ability could imo have gotten us pretty far, but when 6 of our 7 oldest players on the roster aren't playing in games because of injures, and the last one is a punter, and those 6 count for almost a third of the total cap, then its bad.

We have been forced to play the younger guys, and for next season I don't see a reason to continue doing that, instead of relying on Dumervil, Watson, Webb, Smith sr. (although he will retire)
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Danand wrote:
We have been a bad team this year, and a chosen vet strategy combined.


Flaccomania wrote:
He's decided to go with the veteran approach and it's biting us.


What do you guys mean by this? Does this mean playing veterans over younger players? What changes would you make to play who over who?

I feel like this isn't as big a problem this year, as it has been before. Perhaps, Albert McClellan wouldn't have played much if I was in charge, but we saw the young guys more last week. In fact, I think the overall willingness to change has been commendable this year. They dropped Trestman and Forsett quicker than I would have. We're playing Breshad Perriman a lot and letting him go through the growing pains on the field. I'm sure if we were starting Aiken (with Smith out), and keeping Breshad as an unknown on the bench, none of us would have been happy.

Our two best and most important young players (Mosley and Stanley) just happen to be out.


Yes, we've been playing the young guys because our older veterans are all hurt.

We signed Watson which most of us thought was a meh signing at best and he went down.

We retained Sr. and he's been banged up.

We've played McClellan over Correa.

We continue to play Zuttah over literally anyone else.

We extended Shareece Wright (which, while he's not as old as others, was a bad move IMO).

But that's only part of it.

Another reason we have so many veterans is because our coaching staff hasn't been able to groom so many young players over the past 3-6 seasons. That's also a reflection on Harbs and his coaching decisions.
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jpeter15


Joined: 17 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paraven wrote:
if anything this should be a new Ravens 2017 GM thread. Ozzie has been off with the drafts the past few years


I think you underestimate how much say Harbs has in the draft picks and player development of those picks. I would argue that Harbaugh is a great coach but a terrible talent evaluator for players and assistant coaches.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paraven wrote:
Its not like the ravens are an abundance of talent and harbaugh cant get them coached up. There is little talent on the team and the key pieces are injured. so it wouldnt matter who was coaching. Thats why this thread is obsolete. Harbaugh proved that when given talent he can coach the team well to a superbowl.

if anything this should be a new Ravens 2017 GM thread. Ozzie has been off with the drafts the past few years


Or is it the coaching staff not developing and capitalizing the young talent being brought in? I would bet on that being the case more so than the front office not drafting well, although both could certainly be at fault.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:

We signed Watson which most of us thought was a meh signing at best and he went down.


I thought it was meh, at BEST, but it doesn't feel fair to assess it without seeing how it played out at all on the field.

Flaccomania wrote:
We retained Sr. and he's been banged up.


Smith is and has been a steal at his contract value. These type of moves, similar to Mike Wallace, are a strength of this team, IMO. These FA signings where we get a few productive years that don't cost us much cap space or any draft picks or even hurt us in the comp pick formula are a benefit. What's not to like?

Flaccomania wrote:
We've played McClellan over Correa.


I agree. McClellan shouldn't have been playing over our younger guys. Correa got a good amount of reps last week and should hopefully get more going forward. Pick a spot for him to focus on this season and make it easier for him to get up to speed. Matt Judon should be a regular now, after last week, if he's not, then that's something to complain about.

Flaccomania wrote:
We continue to play Zuttah over literally anyone else.


Yea, I hate this too. Our other options were filling in elsewhere on the line, but I really hope he is benched when the other starters come back.

Flaccomania wrote:
We extended Shareece Wright (which, while he's not as old as others, was a bad move IMO).


It's not easy to find a good starting CB. Every team in the league (outside maybe the Broncos) is looking to upgrade one of their starters. Only thing we could have done is made that move for Ramsey, but I'm even more solidly against that now. LT is critical for this team. At least we did find a promising nickel in Tavon Young, and we haven't hesitated to play him.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:

I thought it was meh, at BEST, but it doesn't feel fair to assess it without seeing how it played out at all on the field.


That money could have been spent on either retaining/extending a young guy we have now or gone to a FA at a more needed position than TE. It was meh at best and unfathomable at worst.

Quote:
Smith is and has been a steal at his contract value. These type of moves, similar to Mike Wallace, are a strength of this team, IMO. These FA signings where we get a few productive years that don't cost us much cap space or any draft picks or even hurt us in the comp pick formula are a benefit. What's not to like?


I like the Smith signing originally. I wasn't all that in favor of bringing him back after the injury. He's played ok, and so it's not terrible, but I'd have preferred to have spent the money elsewhere.

Quote:
I agree. McClellan shouldn't have been playing over our younger guys. Correa got a good amount of reps last week and should hopefully get more going forward. Pick a spot for him to focus on this season and make it easier for him to get up to speed. Matt Judon should be a regular now, after last week, if he's not, then that's something to complain about.


Agreed.

Quote:
Yea, I hate this too. Our other options were filling in elsewhere on the line, but I really hope he is benched when the other starters come back.


Yeah, I understand it for the last 2 weeks. But prior to that? I'd rather have literally anyone else there. He's garbage.

Quote:

It's not easy to find a good starting CB. Every team in the league (outside maybe the Broncos) is looking to upgrade one of their starters. Only thing we could have done is made that move for Ramsey, but I'm even more solidly against that now. LT is critical for this team. At least we did find a promising nickel in Tavon Young, and we haven't hesitated to play him.


To me, there's a "starting CB" and a guy who plays CB and starts. Wright is the latter unfortunately.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the argument that Harbaugh is favouring older players, when I read this article on The Ringer a couple of months ago, I got the feeling then that Harbs prefers older players because it takes a lot more effort and time to get young guys up to speed.

Maybe that has influenced some of the moves made to keep on average players who've been in our system and/or signing veterans over taking chances on youth?
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
Regarding the argument that Harbaugh is favouring older players, when I read this article on The Ringer a couple of months ago, I got the feeling then that Harbs prefers older players because it takes a lot more effort and time to get young guys up to speed.

Maybe that has influenced some of the moves made to keep on average players who've been in our system and/or signing veterans over taking chances on youth?


That is not a winning strategy to build a team over the long-term. Especially in today's NFL. Could explain the general downtrend of the Ravens over Harbaugh's tenure.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
drd23 wrote:
Regarding the argument that Harbaugh is favouring older players, when I read this article on The Ringer a couple of months ago, I got the feeling then that Harbs prefers older players because it takes a lot more effort and time to get young guys up to speed.

Maybe that has influenced some of the moves made to keep on average players who've been in our system and/or signing veterans over taking chances on youth?


That is not a winning strategy to build a team over the long-term. Especially in today's NFL. Could explain the general downtrend of the Ravens over Harbaugh's tenure.


Harbaugh enherited a really great group of veterans from Billick, but since the super bowl, where several of them retired, he haven't been able to find succes with many veterans not named Steve Smith.

I think the Kendrick lewis experiment is the most clear example. Apparently it was better to keep him with all his deficiencies that weren't getting better, instead of trying (even more) to get something out of Terrence Brooks.
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harbaugh would be out of work 2 minutes. Only issue with Harbs is his success hinges greatly on his coordinators. But in terms of game day, running a side line or managing 53 different players... He's top notch. Plus, his STs are always exceptional. One of the best coaches in the league.

You could probably trade John Harbaugh for a haul of draft picks. He's that good.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conquest8089 wrote:
Harbaugh would be out of work 2 minutes. Only issue with Harbs is his success hinges greatly on his coordinators. But in terms of game day, running a side line or managing 53 different players... He's top notch. Plus, his STs are always exceptional. One of the best coaches in the league.

You could probably trade John Harbaugh for a haul of draft picks. He's that good.


Not really.

He's not great at running a sideline. He's not great with challenges. He's made some bonehead decisions regarding going for it/not going for it. We're always a very, very penalized team.

What he has, though, is the ability to seemingly keep the team from getting too wrapped up in things and just play football.

As far as STs goes, Jerry Rosburg has more to do with that than Harbaugh I'd say. Though, with his ST background, I'm sure Harbs has some say.
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Danand


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Conquest8089 wrote:
Harbaugh would be out of work 2 minutes. Only issue with Harbs is his success hinges greatly on his coordinators. But in terms of game day, running a side line or managing 53 different players... He's top notch. Plus, his STs are always exceptional. One of the best coaches in the league.

You could probably trade John Harbaugh for a haul of draft picks. He's that good.


Not really.

He's not great at running a sideline. He's not great with challenges. He's made some bonehead decisions regarding going for it/not going for it. We're always a very, very penalized team.

What he has, though, is the ability to seemingly keep the team from getting too wrapped up in things and just play football.

As far as STs goes, Jerry Rosburg has more to do with that than Harbaugh I'd say. Though, with his ST background, I'm sure Harbs has some say.


I don't think Harbaugh is any better or worse than most coaches when it comes to stupid challenges and decisions. I can agree with how we are constantly a heavy penalized team and the rotation with the coaching staff should keep us at least sceptical.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danand wrote:
I don't think Harbaugh is any better or worse than most coaches when it comes to stupid challenges and decisions.


I think he is clearly better than most coaches with regards to challenges and especially game decisions (going for 4th, etc...). Have you seen other nfl games? Some coaches are complete idiots. I'm sure there are times when I didn't like the call, but Harbs isn't at all afraid of making the decision that is mathematically right, but won't be popular with the media, because it's not what coaches normally do. That is a huge deal to me.
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Harbaugh is out with a loss today or next week.
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