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r_sayle


Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 606
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest I would not be at all Annoyed if the draft played out with

Round 1. Forrest Lamp
Round 2. Pat Elflein

Ye its not a sexy start to a draft but if we have a solid Oline then the running game should get going again, which opens up play action and would also give Flacco time on normal drop back passes. The benefits would be huge.
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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 1060
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
Danand wrote:
Suddenly, when Flacco has more time to throw and we can run the ball the entire game, a guard at #16 doesn't seem as bad value.

But ofc. The drafting of wide receivers instead of oline worked well for the Colts and captain Neckbeard


And the drafting of Guards in the first round worked out so well for the Titans and Cardinals and the Browns. There are as many O-line busts in the first round as there are other positions, so I don't know why you think it's such a sure thing that Lamp would be a great pick. People thought guys like Warmack were surefire great players as well.

The Ravens could target Johnson or Asiata or Isidora in the later rounds, and still get someone who can become a starter at Guard. If they want Lamp, there is no way they should take him at #16. Trade back to #20, get another pick, because they're going to need them.

But even taking Lamp at #16 would be better than taking Robinson anywhere in the 1st round.


Well it is pretty easy to say "WR over Guard" if you immediately consider the guard prospect a bust. I didn't operate with bust in my argument, if that was the case, every time someone suggest a different player than the guy you want, you could point to previous busts.

What I was saying, was that the teams that constantly pick WR but neglect building the offensive line end up struggling. As with almost any position, the potential of getting a great player at any position is higher if you draft them high.

There are more WR, quarterbacks, defense ends, safeties, tackles, guards whatever drafted in the 1. round, that end up as great to elite talents compared to every other round. The further down in draft you get, the lower is the potential of getting a great player.
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racoona


Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 128
Location: Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r_sayle wrote:
To be honest I would not be at all Annoyed if the draft played out with

Round 1. Forrest Lamp
Round 2. Pat Elflein

Ye its not a sexy start to a draft but if we have a solid Oline then the running game should get going again, which opens up play action and would also give Flacco time on normal drop back passes. The benefits would be huge.


I would be happy if our draft turned out like this. I have to imagine the Ravens would invest at least a pick or two in the top 3 rounds considering the comments they've made the last few months.

I am curious if Pat Elflein could drop to one of our 3rd's. If that's the case, we can use the 2nd for a pass rusher/wr/cb, and still be able to draft a legit center.
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paraven


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the ravens only pick Lamp at 16 if Mike Williams, Derek Barnett, Corey Davis, John Ross and Hassan Reddick are all gone. And im not sure sure that if that were the case, the ravens wouldnt slip to the end of the 1st and grab an extra 3rd rd pick.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3469
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danand wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
Danand wrote:
Suddenly, when Flacco has more time to throw and we can run the ball the entire game, a guard at #16 doesn't seem as bad value.

But ofc. The drafting of wide receivers instead of oline worked well for the Colts and captain Neckbeard


And the drafting of Guards in the first round worked out so well for the Titans and Cardinals and the Browns. There are as many O-line busts in the first round as there are other positions, so I don't know why you think it's such a sure thing that Lamp would be a great pick. People thought guys like Warmack were surefire great players as well.

The Ravens could target Johnson or Asiata or Isidora in the later rounds, and still get someone who can become a starter at Guard. If they want Lamp, there is no way they should take him at #16. Trade back to #20, get another pick, because they're going to need them.

But even taking Lamp at #16 would be better than taking Robinson anywhere in the 1st round.


Well it is pretty easy to say "WR over Guard" if you immediately consider the guard prospect a bust. I didn't operate with bust in my argument, if that was the case, every time someone suggest a different player than the guy you want, you could point to previous busts.

What I was saying, was that the teams that constantly pick WR but neglect building the offensive line end up struggling. As with almost any position, the potential of getting a great player at any position is higher if you draft them high.

There are more WR, quarterbacks, defense ends, safeties, tackles, guards whatever drafted in the 1. round, that end up as great to elite talents compared to every other round. The further down in draft you get, the lower is the potential of getting a great player.


The Colts have seen Luck struggle because they have failed to build their roster, from top to bottom. Not just because they haven't invested on the O-line. That's why their GM got fired.

Yes, players drafted higher have a higher chance of being good, but there's no guarantee. But there is also a higher chance that you can find good players at certain positions later in the draft. Guard is one of those positions. You're much more likely to find a starting Guard in round three than you are to find a playmaking pass rusher, WR or CB.

So drafting for multiple needs would not dictate you take a Guard in the first round. And drafting for BPA wouldn't either, in this case, because Lamp is not going to be the best player available at #16.
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Sessy


Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 176
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Sessy wrote:
Round about what grade do you give Robinson? In general, I agree with your assessment on guards. I don't think it's that bad a class for guards as I see like 7 guys who have the chance to compete for starting jobs in the group. With tackles, you're lucky to get 4 here. I think that has to weigh into the discussion, no?


No. That's how bad reaches in the draft happen. There is no true best player available strategy in my opinion, but there are surely picks that happen overwhelmingly based on need. This would be one of them.

Quote:
That naturally pushes guys like Ramczyk and Robinson up the board, because there just aren't any other options, and the Ravens weren't in a position to vastly overpay the free agents on the market. You can't sacrifice the whole offense over this reluctance to take offensive lineman.


On my part it's not a reluctance to take offensive linemen. Especially since Lamp would be one of my favorite picks at 16. It's more about taking a guy who's simply not worth being drafted that high. There are only a handful of tackles that look good in this draft, but I don't think that means they should be drafted higher than their worth. Especially in this class where there will be very good prospects available at 16 regardless of what happens prior to that pick. Prospects that are much better football players than Cam Robinson is. Simple as that.

What you're suggesting is going to happen. Guys will be pushed up boards due to the scarcity of linemen available, but I hope the Ravens front office is smart enough to not fall into that trap.


That's all fair enough. I think the disconnect then is that I think Cam Robinson is a far better prospect than you give him credit for. I truly don't think the 12th best player in the draft is much better than the 45th, and I have Lamp, Robinson, Reddick, Charlton, and a lot of the guys that have been listed off as potential targets for the Ravens all in that group. That's why unless I can get a Williams/Davis/Foster, I'm on that phone looking to trade back if I'm the Ravens.
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bmorecareful


Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 868
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Cam Robinson but in long term thinking I would probably prefer lamp because we aren't going to pay two tackles top tier money... Lamp is ultimately not only a starter now but our long term Yanda replacement... Everyone seems to forget he can't play forever and by the time lamps contract would be up Yanda would already be off the books... thus we end up keeping both Stanley and Lamp... Robinson would probably leave and want to try to switch to left tackle for a bigger check

Last edited by bmorecareful on Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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M.10.E


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1693
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only player I would HATE is John Ross.

Player I want in the third round is Ryan Anderson.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11261
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.chron.com/sports/aggies/article/Texas-A-M-WR-Josh-Reynolds-visited-Steelers-11100347.php?cmpid=twitter-desktop

Quote:
Texas A&M wide receiver Josh Reynolds visited the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Baltimore Ravens, according to a league source not authorized to speak publicly.


Add another one to the list. I really like Reynolds too. He's an option at 74 or 78.

Sounds like some reporters that cover the Eagles are saying Dalvin Cook is going to be their pick at 14. Combine that with the rumors that Tampa Bay is looking to trade down now and I think it might be legit since the Buccaneers were rumored to be focusing on Cook at 19. Would be a great thing for the Ravens. Philadelphia is one of the teams that has similar needs to Baltimore.
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/Steve-Smith-On-Whether-Ravens-Should-Draft-A-First-Round-WR/3210ed86-1b28-46c8-b9cf-48b2c5f0ee42

Steve Smith with me on Mike Williams, doesn't think the Ravens should take him if they go receiver in the 1st. I hope little factors like this and Corey's statements on Baltimore tip it in Davis's favor should he and Williams have similar or even identical grades with the FO.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3469
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/Steve-Smith-On-Whether-Ravens-Should-Draft-A-First-Round-WR/3210ed86-1b28-46c8-b9cf-48b2c5f0ee42

Steve Smith with me on Mike Williams, doesn't think the Ravens should take him if they go receiver in the 1st. I hope little factors like this and Corey's statements on Baltimore tip it in Davis's favor should he and Williams have similar or even identical grades with the FO.


It's not likely to be a choice the Ravens have to make. Mock drafts that don't have Williams off the board before #16 are thin on the ground, and everything sources are saying about Williams suggests he's very likely to be the first WR off the board.

Some have Davis slipping into the second round, which seems bizarre to me. I can only assume those guys are fixated on the opposition he faced and his injury.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11261
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's starting to sound like Williams will be off the board anyways. This is about the time that the rumors you hear are true and not smokescreens. With that said:

Quote:
Joel Klatt‏Verified account @joelklatt

In my conversations today the two names that are rising fast.
@CMcCaffrey5 (Top 8 picks) and Haason Reddick (Top 12 picks)


Daniel Jeremiah said the same on Twitter last night.

Quote:
John Wawrow‏Verified account @john_wawrow

Last thing before I get to writing on something non-NFL-draft-related.
Hearing it's unlikely #Bills will target QB with first pick.


Quote:
Jordan Raanan‏Verified account @JordanRaanan 34m34 minutes ago

1. WR John Ross could easily land in the Top 10 and most likely in the Top 15.


Quote:
Jordan Raanan‏Verified account @JordanRaanan 32m32 minutes ago

2. OL Dion Dawkins is well liked by teams. Don't be surprised to see him drafted early 2nd or maybe even slip into end of first #NFLDraft


Quote:
Jordan Raanan‏Verified account @JordanRaanan 31m31 minutes ago

3. It would not be surprising at all to see 4 QBs in first round, with Davis Webb joining Trubisky, Watson and Mahomes #NFLDraft


Quote:
Jordan Raanan‏Verified account @JordanRaanan 28m28 minutes ago

4. Not sure NFL evaluators like DE Derek Barnett as much as the media and public. I've heard better reviews for Charles Harris #NFLDraft


This is going to be fun.
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M.10.E


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1693
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am SURE of one thing, we all will be wrong haha.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3469
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davis Webb in the first round would be insane. A few months ago, I was toying with the idea of him being a 4th rounder the Ravens might look at as a developmental guy to learn under Flacco.

But the crazier teams go for QBs, the better. Just means the true talent falls that much nearer to where the Ravens are picking.

It would be nice if there was a run on QBs, with the Bills, Browns and Cardinals all taking one. Then perhaps the Ravens would be getting some crazy trade offers from the Giants or Texans.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11261
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmorecareful wrote:
I like Cam Robinson but in long term thinking I would probably prefer lamp because we aren't going to pay two tackles top tier money... Lamp is ultimately not only a starter now but our long term Yanda replacement... Everyone seems to forget he can't play forever and by the time lamps contract would be up Yanda would already be off the books... thus we end up keeping both Stanley and Lamp... Robinson would probably leave and want to try to switch to left tackle for a bigger check


This is something I've had in mind too. To me it's not even about Robinson potentially wanting to get LT money on the open market, even if he just wants good RT money the Ravens will have just given Stanley a new big deal (assuming both pan out). There are some who think it would be fine having a good player on the cheap for five years then letting him walk, but I really don't like that line of thinking. Prospects taken as high as 16 should be in your long-term plans and you have to consider the players already on the team.

http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=552080

Quote:
Most draft analysts predict that Garrett Bolles will be the first offensive lineman drafted, possibly with the #20 pick by Denver, but word out of Baltimore is that Ozzie Newsome will bring in a player from his old school to the organization by taking Cam Robinson at #16. Newsome’s original intention was to upgrade the receiving unit, with Mike Williams his primary target, but if the Tennessee-Cleveland deal goes through, the Titans are also eyeballing Williams at #12.


Sad

Not sure who Dave Te is though.
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