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Danand


Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Posts: 887
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
Speaking of cerebral players, Takk McKinley is rumored to have gotten a 3 on the Wonderlic. That(if true) coupled with his struggling to understand combine drills, should gift him a fairly large drop on draft day.


I saw him at the combine and heard them talk about him. He began to remind me more and more of Antwan Barnes, and I haven't considered or talked about him since.

Give me Barnett, Harris, Watt any day of the week over a guy like that.

Two of my favorite players the last couple of years are Trey Flowers and Bosa, and both have shown how their excellent hand technique and relentlessnes translates well to the NFL.
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Rein


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danand wrote:
DreamKid wrote:
Speaking of cerebral players, Takk McKinley is rumored to have gotten a 3 on the Wonderlic. That(if true) coupled with his struggling to understand combine drills, should gift him a fairly large drop on draft day.


I saw him at the combine and heard them talk about him. He began to remind me more and more of Antwan Barnes, and I haven't considered or talked about him since.

Give me Barnett, Harris, Watt any day of the week over a guy like that.

Two of my favorite players the last couple of years are Trey Flowers and Bosa, and both have shown how their excellent hand technique and relentlessnes translates well to the NFL.


I agree - more often than not players with great hand technique at least has a higher ceiling than the one-dimensional physical freaks. The shell life of those players are likewise significantly better as they dont have to rely too much in their physical capabilities.

How would you rate this years draft able DE/OLB in terms of hand technique?

In terms of our draft options, I think we are in a spot where not too many prospects are worth taking. The top prospects will not fall all the way to our selection and we might as well trade back 10 spots and get a similar player. Unless we're drafting a WR, I find it highly plausible that we trade back and collect a few picks.
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KiddKillah


Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 2511
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not high on Corey Davis as some of you are. I see Mark Clayton-ish a little. Kinda makes me nervous but I'm probably in the minority with this one.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11671
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
I guess that fits in with the parlance Bucky Brooks used the other day. Saying that as a front office, you want to make sure your first round picks are doubles (in the baseball sense), at least. If they're home runs, great. But doubles are fine.

I think TJ Watt would fit into that category. But so would a lot of the other guys I like. I'm just not sure the Ravens are going to be that phlegmatic about overlooking the perceived value of their pick.


I'm not sure if you are saying Watt is a home run swing or a double?

I'd lean towards home run. He's as big a freak athlete as anyone in this class not named Myles Garrett, and I could absolutely see him being a double digit sack guy who is also great against the run, and gets his mits in passing lanes. All pro potential, and at a position that important, that's a home run.

His only blemish as a prospect is the history of knee injuries, and I think that's the other side of the home run swing. Easiest way for a freak athlete with a great work ethic to bust is through injuries.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mark Clayton would have been tremendous if he had the size of Corey Davis. But that comparison seems off the me anyways. Davis is just... more. Now I'm not quite as high on him as some others are either but he would be fine at 16. Mike Williams too.

To me it's shaping up to be down to those two in the first round if Baltimore doesn't trade down.

Sidney Jones getting hurt was a big blow to hoping a cornerback was taken at their pick (assuming he or Lattimore fell). Unless they're really high on Humphrey or Conley I'm not sure anybody else makes sense as a potential BPA pick. Tabor's bad 40 combined with his propensity for playing way off at Florida really makes you pause. White and Jackson aren't going that high.

Hooker and Adams weren't falling and signing Jefferson probably takes them out of the running for a safety in the first three rounds. Unless they intend to utilize the dime some more. But Baker isn't worth the 16th pick so nothing to see here.

It's not a great spot to be in to draft an offensive lineman. I think Ramczyk and Lamp are the only two in the running to go that high. Either would be fine with me but it I just don't see it happening either.

Foster is an option if he falls, but if he's the pick you can pretty much count out any chance of the dime being utilized going forward. He and Mosley would see every snap. That might hurt the way Jefferson is used too. He needs to be closer to the line of scrimmage defending the run or manning up on tight ends. Regardless I could easily see the front office liking him. Don't think his incident at the combine means much.

Running back is a hard one to pin down. If Fournette or Cook are there they will surely be someone the team considers taking, but serious consideration? I don't know. Fournette fits better as the workhorse to compliment the other backs Baltimore has as well as being a solid pass protector but Cook is no slouch either. He looked far different on tape than what the combine numbers suggest. But he also has some medical red flags than I wouldn't feel great about gambling on in the first round for a running back. McCaffery is probably out with Woodhead signed but I'm still really high on him.

Tight end? Howard or Njoku are worth taking but that's also the position Baltimore has the most depth and potential at. Also the most questions. But I feel like the risk of sticking with what they have is more than worth taking considering all of the other needs.

And then we get down to pass-rusher. This is the other direction I could see the Ravens going in at 16 if Williams or Davis aren't the pick. It's looking like there will be some really interesting options available in that range. Reddick, Charlton, and Barnett first among them. The talk of Allen potentially falling due to a sub-par combine probably has Newsome foaming at the mouth in anticipation too. Out of the first three any of them make a lot of sense to me. Reddick as a guy who can play inside and out depending on where they need him, Charlton as someone who has the frame and tools you look for who finally started putting it together his senior year, and Barnett is that well-rounded production player who doesn't wow you athletically but is more reliable than those who are only capable of winning with speed.
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coordinator summed up everything beautifully, I agree with every positional need assessment. One thing to remember though, Cook had some violence against women accusations. IIRC some woman claimed he pieced her up in a bar or something, and some stuff about animal abuse as well. If any of that is true it will guarantee him not being the pick at 16.

Sidney Jones at 16 was the most likely draft scenario for us imo, and now it has to be a trade down into the 20s.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DreamKid wrote:
Coordinator summed up everything beautifully, I agree with every positional need assessment. One thing to remember though, Cook had some violence against women accusations. IIRC some woman claimed he pieced her up in a bar or something, and some stuff about animal abuse as well. If any of that is true it will guarantee him not being the pick at 16.

Sidney Jones at 16 was the most likely draft scenario for us imo, and now it has to be a trade down into the 20s.


From the Draft subforum
Quote:
Cook's list of indiscretions is ridiculously long as well: arrested and charged with robbery, charged with possession and firing a weapon at school, charged with criminal mischief, cited for animal abuse, charged with punching woman at a bar. He was only convicted of the animal abuse but that's still an extremely troubling pattern of behavior.

If that's true, I want him on the Ravens even less than I already do. That seems to indicate a pattern of poor behaviour that won't be helped by being in the NFL and the money that comes with it.
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Last edited by drd23 on Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 3386
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
Mancunian Raven wrote:
I guess that fits in with the parlance Bucky Brooks used the other day. Saying that as a front office, you want to make sure your first round picks are doubles (in the baseball sense), at least. If they're home runs, great. But doubles are fine.

I think TJ Watt would fit into that category. But so would a lot of the other guys I like. I'm just not sure the Ravens are going to be that phlegmatic about overlooking the perceived value of their pick.


I'm not sure if you are saying Watt is a home run swing or a double?

I'd lean towards home run. He's as big a freak athlete as anyone in this class not named Myles Garrett, and I could absolutely see him being a double digit sack guy who is also great against the run, and gets his mits in passing lanes. All pro potential, and at a position that important, that's a home run.

His only blemish as a prospect is the history of knee injuries, and I think that's the other side of the home run swing. Easiest way for a freak athlete with a great work ethic to bust is through injuries.


I'm talking about the floor of potential picks, more than the ceiling. The worst case scenario. From what I've seen of Watt, even if he didn't develop in the NFL as you might hope, his work ethic and skillset ensures he would be a solid NFL player.

So from that perspective, he's a double. If he did develop as some scouts and coaches anticipate, then he'd be a home run. I don't think there's much bust potential with TJ Watt... unless it was related to his injury history.

I'm starting to think that Watt in the first, then a CB or WR in the second would be a really good haul. But we know that CBs fly off the board, so it's hard to predict who would be left by the time the Ravens are on the clock for the second time.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KiddKillah wrote:
I'm not high on Corey Davis as some of you are. I see Mark Clayton-ish a little. Kinda makes me nervous but I'm probably in the minority with this one.


Completely different receivers. What about him makes him remind you of Clayton? Clayton was the shifty, quick, smaller WR. Davis is a big, strong WR with speed to go with it. His play style reminds me of TO personally (not to say he's TO level).
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. . . Flacco is right. . .
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a quick little mock, would love if it fell this way:

1st - Mike Williams, WR, Clemson
2nd - Tim Williams, OLB, Alabama
3rd - Kevin King, CB, Washington
3rd comp - Kyle Fuller, C, Baylor
4th - David Sharpe, OG/T, Florida
5th - Stacy Coley, WR, Miami
6th - Richie Brown, ILB/OLB, Mississippi State
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. . . Flacco is right. . .
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
DreamKid wrote:
Coordinator summed up everything beautifully, I agree with every positional need assessment. One thing to remember though, Cook had some violence against women accusations. IIRC some woman claimed he pieced her up in a bar or something, and some stuff about animal abuse as well. If any of that is true it will guarantee him not being the pick at 16.

Sidney Jones at 16 was the most likely draft scenario for us imo, and now it has to be a trade down into the 20s.


From the Draft subforum
Quote:
Cook's list of indiscretions is ridiculously long as well: arrested and charged with robbery, charged with possession and firing a weapon at school, charged with criminal mischief, cited for animal abuse, charged with punching woman at a bar. He was only convicted of the animal abuse but that's still an extremely troubling pattern of behavior.

If that's true, I want him on the Ravens even less than I already do. That seems to indicate a pattern of poor behaviour that won't be helped by being in the NFL and the money that comes with it.


I was not aware that his off-field issue list went to that extent. Yeah, he's not looking like a pick for the Ravens. So running back in the first round is probably Fournette or nobody. Trading down a bit and taking McCaffrey would be fine with me though. Sad
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11671
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I'm 100% off the Cook bandwagon. Liked him as a player on during the season. But, it's not worth it with a high (for what we normally have) first round pick.

Fournette, I'd definitely go for.

I haven't seen anything about us bringing in prospects yet. The Eagles have brought in Cook, Fournette, Corey Davis, John Ross, Mike Williams as well as Rueben Foster, Ryan Anderson, and Marlon Humphrey all for in house visits. Picking two spots ahead of us, they are definitely a team to watch in terms of taking a player from two of our most likely target zones: Offensive playmakers and Alabama defensive stars.
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 648
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you watch John Ross play it's so obvious he's holding back. Many wide outs in college with crazy speed can only go so fast or their little boy armed QBs can't hit them. I would greatly prefer Corey Davis but I wouldn't be mad at John Ross being the pick at all.

I see a little bit of Derrick Mason in Ross's game. With how much cushion John Ross gets for fear of being torched I could see the comeback route greatness being brought back to Baltimore. Having Ross and Perriman would give us the two fastest timed WRs of recent memory, a far cry from our speed challenged past. If Perriman develops even into a solid number 2, deploying him on the same field as Ross would give us a dynamic core that opens things up for our other options. Which isn't to discredit the base value they would offer as weapons themselves.


It would be really funny if they brought back Anquan and drafted Ross as well.


Perriman - Wallace - -[Pitta- Boldin]- - Ross


It would give Joe his plodder safety blanket right where he likes it, and enough speed to always provide an open target if the OL can do their job.

Ross is actually a pretty good run blocker as well. I feel he would be a great addition to the team, what's already there talent wise with him is valuable and I see even more room for growth.


Washington is starting to churn NFL talent, their coaching staff seems to be of a high level. DB after DB, and that true freshman safety Rapp looks like he could be something special. I wouldn't mind seeing Washington become a purple to purple feeder program of players and possibly coaches.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ross has had surgeries on both knees already though. The right knee needed two meniscus repairs and he tore is left ACL. That's something you really have to keep in mind going forward with the type of player John is. The Ravens in particular need to be extremely thorough with medicals. They have too many players miss too many games each season. Hard to be competitive with that constant handicap.
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DreamKid


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Ross has had surgeries on both knees already though. The right knee needed two meniscus repairs and he tore is left ACL. That's something you really have to keep in mind going forward with the type of player John is. The Ravens in particular need to be extremely thorough with medicals. They have too many players miss too many games each season. Hard to be competitive with that constant handicap.


Absolutely, especially with Perriman's situation two years ago. The Raven's have been burned so much by injuries lately I could 100% see them putting a special emphasis on injury frequency. Corey Davis, Reuben Foster, all of these dudes have had problems with injuries, it will be interesting to see how that plays in.

John Ross's injuries he's already had for his frame aren't a good sign, but I would still prefer him to Mike Williams at this point. I'm just not really seeing it with him. If we pick him I'll try and flip my mind and get excited though.

You were right earlier when you said Ozzie is licking his chops about Allen taking a bit of a tumble, lady injury goes both ways.
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