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2016 NHL Regular Season Thread
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ninerfanwheelz


Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 15998
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockey5djh wrote:
ninerfanwheelz wrote:
bigbadbuff23835 wrote:
Big for NJD and maybe even bigger for PHI and DAL.

Sooooo dumb that an EXPANSION team doesn't get the top pick, like what the hell kind of crap is that?


Yeah it's pretty ridiculous, we at least should have had the best odds


They were given the same odds as the #3 slot (Arizona), its not like they were completely boned.


Yeah I know, just seems a little weird that the team starting with everyone else's scraps doesn't get the best odds
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BackfieldBlitz wrote:
Let that be a warning to the rest of the NFL
You don't give the ball back to Blaine Gabbert
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eggybucsfan31


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 10401
Location: Westerly RI
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carolina signs Darling to a 4-year, $16.6M contract

Little pricey, but I don't mind it too much. Like the fact that Francis found his target, made the move for his rights and signed him relatively quickly.

bkobow05 wrote:
I really don't want to trade Zacha but Hanifin is intriguing. Who knows what Carolina would think about that though. They had a shot to choose both and took Hanifin for a reason, I guess.


That's not happening. No offense to Zacha, but he's not even close to what we'd be looking for in any potential Hanifin deal. If we're trading Hanifin, we're going to be wanting someone like Sam Reinhart or Jonathan Drouin.

I don't think Hanifin moves at all, or any defenseman really. If we do trade a D though, I imagine it would be a Fleury/Bean + 1st type of deal instead of Hanifin.
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 74921
Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely sleeping on Zacha, my man. We'll just sign Shatty and trade Henrique for another and be Gucci. Things are on the up and up in Jersey.
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flyers0909


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 12754
Location: Philadelphia, PA
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing against Zacha, but I'm so glad NJ took him instead of Provorov Very Happy
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyers0909 wrote:
Nothing against Zacha, but I'm so glad NJ took him instead of Provorov Very Happy
Eh, Zacha's ceiling is higher and his production was similar with less opportunity. Believe Zacha took less than 90 shots all year and his shot is the best thing he has. I'll take Pavel all day, every day.

We also needed forwards far more than Dmen at that time. I like Pro but Zacha was the right pick.

EDIT: Yeah, Zacha only had 83 shots on goal and scored 8 goals. He had 126 total shots while, Provorov, a defensemen, had 161 shots on goal (6 goals) and 331 shots total. Just shows how little Zacha was actually used when on the ice.
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looked at Bobby Ryan's 2017 stats...holy hell, that contract is bruuuuuuuuuuuuutaallllllllll going forward for what he offers now.
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flyers0909


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bkobow05 wrote:
flyers0909 wrote:
Nothing against Zacha, but I'm so glad NJ took him instead of Provorov Very Happy
Eh, Zacha's ceiling is higher and his production was similar with less opportunity. Believe Zacha took less than 90 shots all year and his shot is the best thing he has. I'll take Pavel all day, every day.

We also needed forwards far more than Dmen at that time. I like Pro but Zacha was the right pick.

EDIT: Yeah, Zacha only had 83 shots on goal and scored 8 goals. He had 126 total shots while, Provorov, a defensemen, had 161 shots on goal (6 goals) and 331 shots total. Just shows how little Zacha was actually used when on the ice.

We're just going to have to disagree there. Provorov, at the age of 19 stepped into a top pairing role and outside of the first few games of the season looked like he completely belonged there. He averaged 22 minutes a night, he's a future 1D.

If we're doing a 2015 redraft (still early I know), Provorov is going top 5, Zacha is borderline top 10.
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll just have to wait and see, I guess. Zacha is a stud. Don't let the Devils offensive style fool you there. Kid has a beautiful shot and, with the pick of Patrick/Hischier, can move to LW and thrive. He's a future 60-70 point player.

The difference between Pro and Pavel, at this stage in their careers, is that Pro has actually gotten a fair shake. Zacha was a 3rd line C (behind Zajac & Henrique) mainly playing with guys like Joseph Blandisi, Stefan Noesen, Beau Bennett, etc. He looked really good when he got chances playing with guys like Hall and Cammy. Once he transitions to LW full time, he'll be better off. Love the kid and wouldn't trade him for the world right now.

And he's not borderline top 10 in that draft. Laughing He's going right in the range he went. LIS, we passed on Pro because we needed forwards far more than defensemen and Zacha had a high upside.

And neither one of us will budge here because each is our guy. Laughing
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flyers0909


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bkobow05 wrote:
We'll just have to wait and see, I guess. Zacha is a stud. Don't let the Devils offensive style fool you there. Kid has a beautiful shot and, with the pick of Patrick/Hischier, can move to LW and thrive. He's a future 60-70 point player.

The difference between Pro and Pavel, at this stage in their careers, is that Pro has actually gotten a fair shake. Zacha was a 3rd line C (behind Zajac & Henrique) mainly playing with guys like Joseph Blandisi, Stefan Noesen, Beau Bennett, etc. He looked really good when he got chances playing with guys like Hall and Cammy. Once he transitions to LW full time, he'll be better off. Love the kid and wouldn't trade him for the world right now.

And he's not borderline top 10 in that draft. Laughing He's going right in the range he went. LIS, we passed on Pro because we needed forwards far more than defensemen and Zacha had a high upside.

And neither one of us will budge here because each is our guy. Laughing

16 forwards had 70 points last year, that's pretty lofty to say he's a 60-70 point player. If you're going to bring up who they played with, Provy's D partner was Andrew MacDonald this year. Even still you take a 1D over a 1LW every day of the week. And that 2015 draft was loaded, I'd take:

McDavid
Eichel
Marner
Provorov
Werenski
Hanifin
Rantanen
Aho

Then you've got guys like the below who are in the same sort of tier, totally up to preference:
Kaprizov
Connor
Barzal
Chabot
Boeser
Konecny
Strome

I'm not trying to knock Zacha or anything, I think he's dynamic and like you said he has a great shot (and needs to be a bit more selfish like you alluded to). But we're talking about a kid who looks like it's almost certain he's going to be able to anchor a top pairing, and just got done doing so (not that it's that special with our defense last year) while putting up 30 points with limited PP time. You put that up against Zacha's resume, even with what he might become, and no GM is going to take that over Provorov.

Like eggy mentioned above, no way they would ever trade Hanifin for Zacha. Provorov has that kind of value.
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, the kid is a stud, no question. Not saying he isn't. I just think Zacha's upside is higher. Again, at the time, we needed forwards far more than Dmen so Zacha was the right pick, no matter how much hindsight you want to put into it.

I'll take Zacha over everybody listed above except the obvious ones (McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Hanifin).

I also don't agree that Pro has Hanifin's value. Hanifin, at the same age, came in right away and looked like a top pairing Dman. Pro had to take another year in juniors before looking good. That's nitpicking though, obviously.

In the end, I'm not trading Zacha for Provorov. Why? Because what purpose does that serve after trading Adam Larsson? We'd just keep flip flopping needs in that case. Someone else speculated the Hanifin-Zacha+ swap, that wasn't my idea. LIS ITT, I'd trade Henrique long before I trade Zacha. We've got kids that can play C (Patrick/Hischier, McLeod, Quenneville, Speers, Coleman) we don't have a lot of kids that can play on the wing. That's why I don't trade Zacha.

And yes, I have lofty expectations for Pavel. He'll hit them too.
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flyers0909


Joined: 03 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Hanifin but he did not come into the league as a top pairing defenseman. He's been sheltered up until around the deadline this year when he started playing in the top 4 with Faulk (and looked good doing so). He doesn't PK either.

Hanifin is a great 2nd pairing guy right now and if the Flyers had a Faulk/Slavin pairing, Provorov would have been this year too. Provorov looks like he's going to be a guy who can log huge minutes against a teams top line while PKing a ton and being solid on the PP2. Hanifin is going to be a great two way guy, a bit less on the defensive side, but more offensively. He's also crazy athletic and a great skater.

Provy actually outscored Hanifin at ES this season. Their value is essentially even at this point in time.
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, hopefully it's just smoke but sources that have talked to the Devils have indicated that we're leaning Nico right now. Of course, neither Ray Shero or Paul Castron have mentioned anything but it fits with how Castron drafted for the Jackets.

I want Nolan, man. We need a sure fire 1C more than a kid that might end up on the wing. Hopefully we don't get cute here.
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bkobow05


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, growing up sucks. Just yesterday, I remember the Devils winning the Stanley Cup for the 3rd time but that was friggin' 2003. Outside of 2011, we've been practically irrelevant since. This is why we can't screw up this #1 pick. It has to be Nolan Patrick, man.
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eggybucsfan31


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even as a Hurricanes fan, I'd have to say that at the moment, Provorov is the better defenseman and the more valuable piece. He's probably one of the most untouchable pieces in the entire league.

At lot of it as to do with, as stated above, Hanifin has played sheltered minutes his entire career until this past deadline when we dealt Hainsey and he took his spot alongside Faulk on the 2nd pair. But, due to the emergence of both Slavin and Pesce, we could afford to bring Hanifin along slowly. Unlike Philly who didn't really have that luxury and Provorov was for the lack of a better term, forced, into a top pairing role (which he played extremely well for a 19 year old). This upcoming season we should start to see more glimpses of what Hanifin is going to become simply due to more ice time... and not playing with Matt Tennyson and Klas Dahlbeck.

As I said earlier, I just don't see Hanifin going anywhere anytime soon, unless we can get a Jones-Johansen type deal. I honestly don't see any of our defensemen getting traded this summer tbh. Fleury is primed to take Hanifin's old spot on the 3rd pairing (hopefully w/a veteran RD) and Bean is still a year or three away from making an impact (which likely limits his trade value).
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bkobow05


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eggybucsfan31 wrote:
Even as a Hurricanes fan, I'd have to say that at the moment, Provorov is the better defenseman and the more valuable piece. He's probably one of the most untouchable pieces in the entire league.
Fair enough. I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong. However, you can't blame someone for not wanting to part with a prospect like Zacha. Pro and Hanifin are great but trading Zacha defeats the entire purpose of trading Larsson. We wouldn't need a 1D had we not traded Larsson for Hall.

Not too mention, as I've stated more than enough, as of the 2015 draft, we needed Zacha far more than we needed Provorov.
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