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Who should we draft
Myles Garrett
22%
 22%  [ 4 ]
Jalen Tabor
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Marlon Humphrey
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Marshawn Lattimore
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Jamaal Adams
16%
 16%  [ 3 ]
Deshaun Watson
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cam Robinson
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
Other
44%
 44%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 18

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Highboltage55


Joined: 27 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't hate the O-Line like most, but they definitely can be upgraded. I think Coaching could actually make them better than they look-prime example is Barksdale vs. Von Miller (or Khalil Mack / Justin Houston).

Clearly you have some of the top Pass Rushers residing in the AFC West, so they ARE going to be tested week in and out... The gimmie games were against teams like Indianapolis or New Orleans (Cam Jordan is a stud), where they don't really have guys that are "terrors" off the Edge.

If I was McCoy I would have left Henry or McGrath in to help out Joe on the Edge yesterday when he was struggling-but that is a whole different conversation.

Franklin has been inconsistent with play and durability during his time here, I think that is well documented. It isn't like we signed a guy like Zach Martin or David Decastro who are All-Pro's, but I DO like the transition to a more "downhill" / Power Running game which does suit Franklin's skill set much better than last year (finesse running out of the 'Gun + Draws). I still like Franklin going forward, hence I didn't say we needed to replace him (your right, calling him a FA Bust was a little harsh-those are saved for guys like Derek Cox/Robert Meachem). It also seems like the majority of "big"/broken runs are coming from right behind him, so I have seen him move guys at the point of attack. He also has previous experience at Right Tackle which is an asset, should something happen he always has some flexibility.

I understand we are NOT the Seahawks who consisntely have a dumpster fire of an Offensive Line, but we still could use help up front. We have seen what Phil looks like with studs up front (McNeill, Dielman, Hardwick) and duds (Mike Harris, Clary, Trevor Robinson, etc.). Again some is contributed to coaching (Norv calling 7-step drops with some of the duds listed above).

We can't blame the O-Line for everything, yesterday they made MG3's big day possible, but at the same time almost got Rivers killed. Some changes DO need to be made (i.e. Pulley + Tuerk for future and potential OT draftee). We agree 100% on Hairston. Guy is garbage, I hate when he trots out there-I have very low confidence in the guy.

EDIT-I do like your idea of trading for Jake Fisher. The Bengals loaded up on OT's that draft because of Whitworth's age and Andre Smith's contract (has since departed). I follow Pac-12(10) ball closely and he was a STUD at Oregon (a SUPER Athletic stud at that). I don't know what Cinci's long-term plans are with him, but he would be an underrated acquisition who I think is starter material.

I also forgot about Donovan Clark. He was showing good progress for being a late round prospect in the pre-season prior to his injury, if he can come back "strong" he is another guy that can fill out the depth chart.

I also want to say that I was NOT in the camp for Ronnie Stanley last year. We had bigger needs than drafting an OT top 10 who would be sitting and waiting for his shot. I do think that having capable depth and someone to "groom" is important, especially since we play in the AFCWest.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top Needs?

Same thing I say every year. We need a real pass rusher. It sucks being the only one in the division without a Mack, Miller or Houston. Ingram walks and this is our #1 need.

We need a corner. Flowers is middle of the road and wild. Verrett hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy. Need another starter desperately. Probably our highest need if we retain Ingram.

We need another Wide out. KA13 is nice but at this point he is on DX status. Williams looks to be a nice #2 guy and I hope we give Benji another season to see if he can stay healthy. Need to have 1 more though because Benji and KA13 haven't shown us they can play 19 games.

Both Tackles are serviceable but could use an upgrade. Same goes with both guard positions. Overall the offensive line is just serviceable. Considering what we invested in it, it should be better.

Safety. As long as Addae is gone I'm happy.

NT would be great but I don't remember the last time anyone drafted one that was good with his original team. They tend to need to grow into the position. Luxury pick IMO and better served through free agency if we can target a guy like Mebane.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bosa is that top rusher, but alright. Laughing
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boltstrikes wrote:
Top Needs?

Same thing I say every year. We need a real pass rusher. It sucks being the only one in the division without a Mack, Miller or Houston. Ingram walks and this is our #1 need.

We need a corner. Flowers is middle of the road and wild. Verrett hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy. Need another starter desperately. Probably our highest need if we retain Ingram.

We need another Wide out. KA13 is nice but at this point he is on DX status. Williams looks to be a nice #2 guy and I hope we give Benji another season to see if he can stay healthy. Need to have 1 more though because Benji and KA13 haven't shown us they can play 19 games.

Both Tackles are serviceable but could use an upgrade. Same goes with both guard positions. Overall the offensive line is just serviceable. Considering what we invested in it, it should be better.

Safety. As long as Addae is gone I'm happy.

NT would be great but I don't remember the last time anyone drafted one that was good with his original team. They tend to need to grow into the position. Luxury pick IMO and better served through free agency if we can target a guy like Mebane.


Mebane, Sly Williams, Snacks Harrison, Linval Joseph, Brandon Williams, Kawaan Short, Jonathan Hankins, Lotulelei, Dontarie Poe (I can keep going). I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. I mean I can see some of the guys who were busts, but more than not its more of a injury thing than a talent thing (Phil Taylor/Dan Williams for example). But I think more than not, true NT are a little overlooked and end up going a round or two later than I would take them (last year that was Javon Hargrave for me).
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffy, random thought - I highly, HIGHLY doubt even a new coaching staff has the creativity to even try it out, but IIRC Tuerk has actually played LOT (he wasn't stellar, but he knows the position and is certainly athletic enough to play if - it was always more a case that he didn't have the bulk to handle one-on-ones). I avoid SC like the plague on principle, so you've seen more of him than I have, is there any hope he could actually push out to tackle?

Pulley's your dude, but we can both admit that it's an uphill climb for him to ever get a fair shake. Either they'll re-sign Fluker at which point a coaching staff will be money-committed to seeing him definitively beat out (which would probably still require him getting injured and THEN outperformed) before he'd lose his starting spot, or they'll draft someone and that guy will still probably have a leg-up on Pulley, who is likely going to be stuck in Mruczkowski territory for most of his career. I'm not going to in any way count on him coming off an injury and being only a 7th round guy, but Clark will also be back next season and actually looked pretty solid at guard before he went down. I agree, Fluker needs to walk because he just doesn't have it between the ears to play the position at this level.

I think RG's one of those positions you sit tight and wait until late Day 2 or early Day 3 for the guy with the high floor and questionable ceiling - because he only projects as a guard - and be happy if you can sew up a 5-7 year starter at the position (we see it happen every year with guys like Gabe Jackson, Trai Turner, Jamon Brown).

We know Telesco's going to draft for need in the 1st... because he always does, but ultimately I'd like to see him just add whatever elite-ceiling defender he can lay hands on - and frankly I really don't care what position it's at. Make the damn coaching staff figure out how to get him on the field at the same time as guys like Bosa, Jatavis, Heyward, Verrett, McCoil, Mebane, and Liuget (least of the bunch)... or bring in a coaching staff that will figure out how to. I say this mostly because I have no faith in Spanos to hire a HC who will establish the kind of system wherein lesser talent will be able to overachieve by virtue of totally buying into the system, so we have to go the other route of just overwhelming opposition with pure talent.

For that reason, I've shed my previous skepticism about Peppers. If we're in a position to get him, you take him, say thank you, and figure out how to get him in a position to play with the other guys we have most effectively. Talent will out. If it's Barnett, you take him and be grateful. If it's Humphrey or Sutton (guys are "climbing" above him because he's out injured right now, he'll be a prime candidate to "re-establish" his status at the Senior Bowl)... ditto. The only guy I really struggle with trying to find a fit for is Marquis Haynes and even then I think if his arm length checks out the way I expect it to, he's someone you could still conceivable take a mid-to-late 1st round shot at if he checks all the triangle-number boxes because there's some traits in his play eerily reminiscent of Dumervil at Louisville (I think the lazy comp is probably going to be Bruce Irvin, but there's a violence, even if he lacks anchor, to Haynes that I didn't see in Irvin at WVU).

I'm also still kind of stuck on the pet idea of Jonathan Allen being capable of being a Preston Smith/Aaron Lynch type of "oversized" EDGE; really where I keep pumping the brakes is that we've really yet to see a Bama EDGE prospect really pan out - but maybe taking a guy who converted into a downed-lineman and bringing him back is the trick to cracking that query. Allen certainly has the athleticism. Get him at a nice medium of around 270-275 and just let him eat.
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chargerbuckeye


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm starting to see the hype on Malik Hooker, but will he even fall to us at this point. Guy is rising up draft boards like crazy. I think CB is a bigger need than safety, but Hooker is a freak.
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Duffy, random thought - I highly, HIGHLY doubt even a new coaching staff has the creativity to even try it out, but IIRC Tuerk has actually played LOT (he wasn't stellar, but he knows the position and is certainly athletic enough to play if - it was always more a case that he didn't have the bulk to handle one-on-ones). I avoid SC like the plague on principle, so you've seen more of him than I have, is there any hope he could actually push out to tackle?

Pulley's your dude, but we can both admit that it's an uphill climb for him to ever get a fair shake. Either they'll re-sign Fluker at which point a coaching staff will be money-committed to seeing him definitively beat out (which would probably still require him getting injured and THEN outperformed) before he'd lose his starting spot, or they'll draft someone and that guy will still probably have a leg-up on Pulley, who is likely going to be stuck in Mruczkowski territory for most of his career. I'm not going to in any way count on him coming off an injury and being only a 7th round guy, but Clark will also be back next season and actually looked pretty solid at guard before he went down. I agree, Fluker needs to walk because he just doesn't have it between the ears to play the position at this level.

I think RG's one of those positions you sit tight and wait until late Day 2 or early Day 3 for the guy with the high floor and questionable ceiling - because he only projects as a guard - and be happy if you can sew up a 5-7 year starter at the position (we see it happen every year with guys like Gabe Jackson, Trai Turner, Jamon Brown).

We know Telesco's going to draft for need in the 1st... because he always does, but ultimately I'd like to see him just add whatever elite-ceiling defender he can lay hands on - and frankly I really don't care what position it's at. Make the damn coaching staff figure out how to get him on the field at the same time as guys like Bosa, Jatavis, Heyward, Verrett, McCoil, Mebane, and Liuget (least of the bunch)... or bring in a coaching staff that will figure out how to. I say this mostly because I have no faith in Spanos to hire a HC who will establish the kind of system wherein lesser talent will be able to overachieve by virtue of totally buying into the system, so we have to go the other route of just overwhelming opposition with pure talent.

For that reason, I've shed my previous skepticism about Peppers. If we're in a position to get him, you take him, say thank you, and figure out how to get him in a position to play with the other guys we have most effectively. Talent will out. If it's Barnett, you take him and be grateful. If it's Humphrey or Sutton (guys are "climbing" above him because he's out injured right now, he'll be a prime candidate to "re-establish" his status at the Senior Bowl)... ditto. The only guy I really struggle with trying to find a fit for is Marquis Haynes and even then I think if his arm length checks out the way I expect it to, he's someone you could still conceivable take a mid-to-late 1st round shot at if he checks all the triangle-number boxes because there's some traits in his play eerily reminiscent of Dumervil at Louisville (I think the lazy comp is probably going to be Bruce Irvin, but there's a violence, even if he lacks anchor, to Haynes that I didn't see in Irvin at WVU).

I'm also still kind of stuck on the pet idea of Jonathan Allen being capable of being a Preston Smith/Aaron Lynch type of "oversized" EDGE; really where I keep pumping the brakes is that we've really yet to see a Bama EDGE prospect really pan out - but maybe taking a guy who converted into a downed-lineman and bringing him back is the trick to cracking that query. Allen certainly has the athleticism. Get him at a nice medium of around 270-275 and just let him eat.


I'm not so sure about the Pulley not getting a shot. Remember that this is a OL coach who got rid of McKinney and Hutchinson and replaced them with Charlie Johnson (eventually Khalil) and Brandon Fusco. He seems to prefer to give smarter/lower valued technique based guys over high priced/ultra talented guys. So I think they're really more open to the idea, especially with Fluker going to cost us about 11m to keep on the roster next year...which is a HUGE amount of money for a guy who hasn't produced that well.

Turek is definitely an interesting idea for a OT convert, but I think he's just plain too valuable at C to deviate from that. He's also the exact type of C that Davidson seems to love (see Sullivan/Khalil). He loves him some athletic C's, and while he's gone back to more of a true power base like he did last year with Minn when Sully went out and they had to play Berger, Turek is the kind of C that he really seems to prefer. So I can't see him deviating from that plan. Its a nice pet project idea, but I doubt we ever see it even tested.

Yeah, I'm all about "best defensive talent on the board" and just fit the scheme around the guys you have, even if there is some opposing skillsets. Honestly I see Jon Allen and Bosa as very similar types of players, who could do a lot for a defense that's versatile. Dispite very different body types and all that, they play the game similarly and they can both play just about anywhere. Allen seems to be more stocky while Bosa is definitely the lengthy/wirey strong type of guy.

Also with you pulling out the Doom comps, do you see it at all in Ejuan Price from Pitt? He's got a lot of things to like in his game IMO.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy Crap, I'm absolutely in LOVE with Garrett Bolles from Utah. He's got so much Joran Gross (who Jeff Davidson made a STUD at Carolina) in his game. Athletic, pretty technically sound and just solid. He's super nasty as well. I'm all for him as high as the 2nd (honestly he's a first round talent IMO) is he decides to come out as a future LT type guy. He's got a bit of work to do, but He's going to be a good one.
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Highboltage55


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chargerbuckeye wrote:
I'm starting to see the hype on Malik Hooker, but will he even fall to us at this point. Guy is rising up draft boards like crazy. I think CB is a bigger need than safety, but Hooker is a freak.


From everything I have read recently, I would love for this team to draft Hooker if he declares, but im not counting on it. Hooker, Adams (SS?) and Peppers (SS/"Dimebacker") all seem destined to be selected in the first, with some other guys like Justin Evans and Marcus Maye as borderline/fringe 1st rounders. I have also seen Quin Blanding receive a lot of attention. Three of our current four Safeties were "undrafted", and we let two previous Safeties walk in FA (Weddle, Gilchrist) so I don't think our FO values Safety as high as potentially a CB. I would still rather have a guy who can project to be a Safety on the level of Eric Berry (i.e. Hooker), than select another CB who will likely play Nickel his first few years with out 1st round pick. Denver has three solid CB's between Talib, Harris and Roby-but they also have TWO stud Safeties in Ward/Stewart. We don't really have much going at the Safety position.

I hope if we take a CB we go with Desmond King (could he fall the the 2nd?), people say he lacks elite athleticism but is a physical / tough "zone" oriented corner. Budda Baker could be a nice mid round selection as a FS/NB player. This Corner and Safety class seems deep with a good amount of talent in general. Granted some of the talent may not even "come out" / declare.

Two QB prospects I am keeping an eye on are Luke Faulk (WSU) and Patrick Mahomes (Texas Tech). Both could leave school early, both play in "air raid " variants, with Faulk the better short/intermediate passer and Mahomes more of a "gunslinger" with the physical tools. If Faulk slid to the 2nd-3rd range and Mahomes 3rd-4th, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a shot on "grooming" a potential backup for Phil.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
Holy Crap, I'm absolutely in LOVE with Garrett Bolles from Utah. He's got so much Joran Gross (who Jeff Davidson made a STUD at Carolina) in his game. Athletic, pretty technically sound and just solid. He's super nasty as well. I'm all for him as high as the 2nd (honestly he's a first round talent IMO) is he decides to come out as a future LT type guy. He's got a bit of work to do, but He's going to be a good one.


Just an FYI, Bolles will be 25 next year.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
Holy Crap, I'm absolutely in LOVE with Garrett Bolles from Utah. He's got so much Joran Gross (who Jeff Davidson made a STUD at Carolina) in his game. Athletic, pretty technically sound and just solid. He's super nasty as well. I'm all for him as high as the 2nd (honestly he's a first round talent IMO) is he decides to come out as a future LT type guy. He's got a bit of work to do, but He's going to be a good one.


Just an FYI, Bolles will be 25 next year.


I'm good with that. Hopefully it means we can get him later than he deserves to be gotten. Give him a year to learn/fill in and get him ready to start in '18 when Dunlap is gone. The kid is super talented.

He actually kind of reminds me of a better version of Kyle Long, who can actually stick at OT, who was old coming into the league too. But same kind of story.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
Holy Crap, I'm absolutely in LOVE with Garrett Bolles from Utah. He's got so much Joran Gross (who Jeff Davidson made a STUD at Carolina) in his game. Athletic, pretty technically sound and just solid. He's super nasty as well. I'm all for him as high as the 2nd (honestly he's a first round talent IMO) is he decides to come out as a future LT type guy. He's got a bit of work to do, but He's going to be a good one.


Just an FYI, Bolles will be 25 next year.


I'm good with that. Hopefully it means we can get him later than he deserves to be gotten. Give him a year to learn/fill in and get him ready to start in '18 when Dunlap is gone. The kid is super talented.

He actually kind of reminds me of a better version of Kyle Long, who can actually stick at OT, who was old coming into the league too. But same kind of story.

He's also an OL - who play into their late 30's - so it's less of a concern. The only positions that see players extend their careers to more advanced ages than OL in the league are QB's and K/P's.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
Duffman57 wrote:
Holy Crap, I'm absolutely in LOVE with Garrett Bolles from Utah. He's got so much Joran Gross (who Jeff Davidson made a STUD at Carolina) in his game. Athletic, pretty technically sound and just solid. He's super nasty as well. I'm all for him as high as the 2nd (honestly he's a first round talent IMO) is he decides to come out as a future LT type guy. He's got a bit of work to do, but He's going to be a good one.


Just an FYI, Bolles will be 25 next year.


I'm good with that. Hopefully it means we can get him later than he deserves to be gotten. Give him a year to learn/fill in and get him ready to start in '18 when Dunlap is gone. The kid is super talented.

He actually kind of reminds me of a better version of Kyle Long, who can actually stick at OT, who was old coming into the league too. But same kind of story.

He's also an OL - who play into their late 30's - so it's less of a concern. The only positions that see players extend their careers to more advanced ages than OL in the league are QB's and K/P's.


Its also kind of a wash since he has a lot less wear on his body than he would, because he took a 2 year mission, rather than just playing football somewhere else. That makes it somewhat equal IMO. Kid can play though for sure.
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Boltstrikes


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chargerbuckeye wrote:
I'm starting to see the hype on Malik Hooker, but will he even fall to us at this point. Guy is rising up draft boards like crazy. I think CB is a bigger need than safety, but Hooker is a freak.


Welcome to the bandwagon. I'm seriously impressed with the kid. Like Antonio Cromartie type of impressed.
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Highboltage55


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts on Tim Williams OLB/EDGE out of Alabama?

Well versed in the 3-4 as an EDGE, had good production at Bama for being a "rotational" player, is "twitchy" with an explosive first step-but questions remain about his ability to be a three down player (play the run / set the edge).
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