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Who should we draft
Myles Garrett
17%
 17%  [ 4 ]
Jalen Tabor
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Marlon Humphrey
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Marshawn Lattimore
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
Jamaal Adams
21%
 21%  [ 5 ]
Deshaun Watson
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cam Robinson
8%
 8%  [ 2 ]
Other
34%
 34%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 23

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The LBC


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
As far as Davis, the thing is that there was never any questions about his athleticism. He may be a 4.5 guy, but his quickness/agility are top level at the position. He actually kind of has the same vibe as Keenan Allen did at Cal. A WR that was decently tall (but not 6'3"+) and incredibly quick, but plays bigger and more physical than his size suggests, and while he's not the fastest, he's a nighmare with the ball in his hands. I don't see him being the pick either, but I would much rather have him than Williams (though I would think Williams would be an FO favorite).

That's my feeling. Davis is the better fit, but if I was to peg which of the two this FO would take at #7 if they were to take one, it would be Williams - for the reasons previously listed on Davis, as well as (much as I hate to say it) Dean's gonna want a "hype" player to sell to LA (which I think is probably a better case than Gus for Telesco bending his aversion to valuing safeties highly - because Hooker would be seen as a guy who would make enough splash plays to easily sell in LA). It's part of why I feel like, if Lattimore does by some miracle slide to #7, he's a good bet for the pick.

You're not going to see it happen (I'm almost positive), but if a scenario to trade back and pick up a 2018 1st in the process came up - I could see ownership pushing the FO to accept, since there's a pretty good chance the 2018 draft ends up in LA.
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BoltsFan937


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Polian was on Sirius last night and ranked the top five WR' like this
1. Corey Davis
2. John Ross
3. Zay Jones
4. Curtis Samuel
5. Mike Williams

Thought it was interesting how high he had Samuel in particular and how low he had Williams.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoltsFan937 wrote:
If you're a safety going that high you better be a game changer, and by that I mean collecting interceptions. Peppers ball skills are pitiful (to prove my point, if his ball skills were great Michigan would have never moved him off CB/S to LB)


They moved Peppers off of CB/S because he was an excellent fit for Don Brown's SAM and VIPER position (which traditionally utilizes a player that would be a regular safety in other defenses) and because no one else fit the bill... as evidenced by them having to put in a freshman when Peppers got injured for the Orange Bowl.

Quote:
Bill Polian was on Sirius last night and ranked the top five WR' like this
1. Corey Davis
2. John Ross
3. Zay Jones
4. Curtis Samuel
5. Mike Williams

Thought it was interesting how high he had Samuel in particular and how low he had Williams.


Feel like it's tough to rank some of these guys together under the general category of WR since they're so different from one another.
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BoltsFan937


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
BoltsFan937 wrote:
If you're a safety going that high you better be a game changer, and by that I mean collecting interceptions. Peppers ball skills are pitiful (to prove my point, if his ball skills were great Michigan would have never moved him off CB/S to LB)


They moved Peppers off of CB/S because he was an excellent fit for Don Brown's SAM and VIPER position (which traditionally utilizes a player that would be a regular safety in other defenses) and because no one else fit the bill... as evidenced by them having to put in a freshman when Peppers got injured for the Orange Bowl.

Quote:
Bill Polian was on Sirius last night and ranked the top five WR' like this
1. Corey Davis
2. John Ross
3. Zay Jones
4. Curtis Samuel
5. Mike Williams

Thought it was interesting how high he had Samuel in particular and how low he had Williams.


Feel like it's tough to rank some of these guys together under the general category of WR since they're so different from one another.


No way. So you're telling me if Peppers had 5-6 picks per year his first two years at Michigan and was locking guys down in coverage they would have still moved him off safety and put him at linebacker? When has that ever happened? He himself says he's a safety, he would have fought like hell to remain at safety, put up an All American year and stamp his ticket into the top
Ten of the draft. They can say what they want, coaches are gonna hype their guys all day long, but he has poor ball skills and they put him at lb to mask some of that.
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious if the stance that Telesco has about unvervaluing S's is more scheme related than anything. We played a hell of a lot of Cover 2, which makes' having elite S's overrated. If we play a Cover 1/3 scheme under Bradley, I'm wondering if the stance will change and he would be willing to pick one early in the draft.
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Duffman57


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoltsFan937 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
BoltsFan937 wrote:
If you're a safety going that high you better be a game changer, and by that I mean collecting interceptions. Peppers ball skills are pitiful (to prove my point, if his ball skills were great Michigan would have never moved him off CB/S to LB)


They moved Peppers off of CB/S because he was an excellent fit for Don Brown's SAM and VIPER position (which traditionally utilizes a player that would be a regular safety in other defenses) and because no one else fit the bill... as evidenced by them having to put in a freshman when Peppers got injured for the Orange Bowl.

Quote:
Bill Polian was on Sirius last night and ranked the top five WR' like this
1. Corey Davis
2. John Ross
3. Zay Jones
4. Curtis Samuel
5. Mike Williams

Thought it was interesting how high he had Samuel in particular and how low he had Williams.


Feel like it's tough to rank some of these guys together under the general category of WR since they're so different from one another.


No way. So you're telling me if Peppers had 5-6 picks per year his first two years at Michigan and was locking guys down in coverage they would have still moved him off safety and put him at linebacker? When has that ever happened? He himself says he's a safety, he would have fought like hell to remain at safety, put up an All American year and stamp his ticket into the top
Ten of the draft. They can say what they want, coaches are gonna hype their guys all day long, but he has poor ball skills and they put him at lb to mask some of that.


I don't think you're getting the point. He's not saying that he's some elite coverage guy, but they seriously had a complete lack of anybody that could even remotely fit into the position. The move was more need based and more talent based. The team thought he could perform highly at S, but they already have 2 S's that were good, and had NOBODY at that Will/Viper spot. I think his deficiencies in coverage are a little bit overstated, but he's not very good 1 on 1 in coverage for sure, but that isn't the reason for the move.
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoltsFan937 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
BoltsFan937 wrote:
If you're a safety going that high you better be a game changer, and by that I mean collecting interceptions. Peppers ball skills are pitiful (to prove my point, if his ball skills were great Michigan would have never moved him off CB/S to LB)


They moved Peppers off of CB/S because he was an excellent fit for Don Brown's SAM and VIPER position (which traditionally utilizes a player that would be a regular safety in other defenses) and because no one else fit the bill... as evidenced by them having to put in a freshman when Peppers got injured for the Orange Bowl.

Quote:
Bill Polian was on Sirius last night and ranked the top five WR' like this
1. Corey Davis
2. John Ross
3. Zay Jones
4. Curtis Samuel
5. Mike Williams

Thought it was interesting how high he had Samuel in particular and how low he had Williams.


Feel like it's tough to rank some of these guys together under the general category of WR since they're so different from one another.


No way. So you're telling me if Peppers had 5-6 picks per year his first two years at Michigan and was locking guys down in coverage they would have still moved him off safety and put him at linebacker? When has that ever happened? He himself says he's a safety, he would have fought like hell to remain at safety, put up an All American year and stamp his ticket into the top
Ten of the draft. They can say what they want, coaches are gonna hype their guys all day long, but he has poor ball skills and they put him at lb to mask some of that.


Yes, I am telling you that. Don Brown's defense uses that kind of player at the spot. They had two NFL caliber guys at safety in Dymonte Thomas and Delano Hill. Their LB spot was barren. At BC, the guy who played the Peppers role was 6'0, 215 converted safety Matt Milano, and he also put up numbers. Don Brown is arguably the best defensive coordinator in college football and it's how he wanted to use Peppers for his defense, even though he has acknowledged that it may not have been the best for his NFL future. The FSU game was a pretty clear demonstration of what Peppers meant to the defense. Brown's defense will pretty much always feature that kind of player unless they find a regular sized LB that fits exactly what they want out of the VIPER, which is tough. They'll be using another converted safety there next year.
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Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:
Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

#JDI
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game3525


Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 11036
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As far as Davis, the thing is that there was never any questions about his athleticism. He may be a 4.5 guy, but his quickness/agility are top level at the position. He actually kind of has the same vibe as Keenan Allen did at Cal. A WR that was decently tall (but not 6'3"+) and incredibly quick, but plays bigger and more physical than his size suggests, and while he's not the fastest, he's a nighmare with the ball in his hands. I don't see him being the pick either, but I would much rather have him than Williams (though I would think Williams would be an FO favorite).


Maybe John Spanos would like Williams more, but I am not so sure that would be the case for Telesco, giving the kind of receivers the Colts drafted when he was in Indy under Polian.
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BoltsFan937


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Posts: 1138
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
BoltsFan937 wrote:
JammerHammer21 wrote:
BoltsFan937 wrote:
If you're a safety going that high you better be a game changer, and by that I mean collecting interceptions. Peppers ball skills are pitiful (to prove my point, if his ball skills were great Michigan would have never moved him off CB/S to LB)


They moved Peppers off of CB/S because he was an excellent fit for Don Brown's SAM and VIPER position (which traditionally utilizes a player that would be a regular safety in other defenses) and because no one else fit the bill... as evidenced by them having to put in a freshman when Peppers got injured for the Orange Bowl.

Quote:
Bill Polian was on Sirius last night and ranked the top five WR' like this
1. Corey Davis
2. John Ross
3. Zay Jones
4. Curtis Samuel
5. Mike Williams

Thought it was interesting how high he had Samuel in particular and how low he had Williams.


Feel like it's tough to rank some of these guys together under the general category of WR since they're so different from one another.


No way. So you're telling me if Peppers had 5-6 picks per year his first two years at Michigan and was locking guys down in coverage they would have still moved him off safety and put him at linebacker? When has that ever happened? He himself says he's a safety, he would have fought like hell to remain at safety, put up an All American year and stamp his ticket into the top
Ten of the draft. They can say what they want, coaches are gonna hype their guys all day long, but he has poor ball skills and they put him at lb to mask some of that.


Yes, I am telling you that. Don Brown's defense uses that kind of player at the spot. They had two NFL caliber guys at safety in Dymonte Thomas and Delano Hill. Their LB spot was barren. At BC, the guy who played the Peppers role was 6'0, 215 converted safety Matt Milano, and he also put up numbers. Don Brown is arguably the best defensive coordinator in college football and it's how he wanted to use Peppers for his defense, even though he has acknowledged that it may not have been the best for his NFL future. The FSU game was a pretty clear demonstration of what Peppers meant to the defense. Brown's defense will pretty much always feature that kind of player unless they find a regular sized LB that fits exactly what they want out of the VIPER, which is tough. They'll be using another converted safety there next year.


Ok, fair enough. I'm not gonna pretend to know the intricacies of Michigan's defense. I'll still maintain that I can't recall (and feel free to correct me) a guy supposedly as highly touted as Peppers being moved around like he has CB-S-LB. One pick for his career on a tipped ball at OSU, compare that to Hooker's
year. They play against the exact same competition in the Big Ten so there's no discrepancy there. I'll maintain my original point which was Peppers is not worthy of the 7th overall pick. To be a top ten pick you better make plays on the ball, he clearly does not. He struggles tracking the ball, getting his head around and locating the ball and finally actually catching the ball. He dropped three at his pro day that hit him right in the hands. The kid is a stud athlete I'll give him that and if we wanted to roll those dice at #38, I'd be ok with that but no way #7
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Duffman57


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

game3525 wrote:
Quote:
As far as Davis, the thing is that there was never any questions about his athleticism. He may be a 4.5 guy, but his quickness/agility are top level at the position. He actually kind of has the same vibe as Keenan Allen did at Cal. A WR that was decently tall (but not 6'3"+) and incredibly quick, but plays bigger and more physical than his size suggests, and while he's not the fastest, he's a nighmare with the ball in his hands. I don't see him being the pick either, but I would much rather have him than Williams (though I would think Williams would be an FO favorite).


Maybe John Spanos would like Williams more, but I am not so sure that would be the case for Telesco, giving the kind of receivers the Colts drafted when he was in Indy under Polian.


Yeah, Corey Davis is a much better fit for the type of receivers that they look for (and the ones that are succeeding these days), but the reason I could see Mike Williams being the favorite is because he's got multiple years of high level college production, and is from a major school, which is something Telesco has made a trend (basically every early round pick has been from a power 5 conference, and has been productive and a major contributor for a winning team for 2-3 years). Stylistically, Davis fits the bill, trend wise its Williams.
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game3525


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duffman57 wrote:
game3525 wrote:
Quote:
As far as Davis, the thing is that there was never any questions about his athleticism. He may be a 4.5 guy, but his quickness/agility are top level at the position. He actually kind of has the same vibe as Keenan Allen did at Cal. A WR that was decently tall (but not 6'3"+) and incredibly quick, but plays bigger and more physical than his size suggests, and while he's not the fastest, he's a nighmare with the ball in his hands. I don't see him being the pick either, but I would much rather have him than Williams (though I would think Williams would be an FO favorite).


Maybe John Spanos would like Williams more, but I am not so sure that would be the case for Telesco, giving the kind of receivers the Colts drafted when he was in Indy under Polian.


Yeah, Corey Davis is a much better fit for the type of receivers that they look for (and the ones that are succeeding these days), but the reason I could see Mike Williams being the favorite is because he's got multiple years of high level college production, and is from a major school, which is something Telesco has made a trend (basically every early round pick has been from a power 5 conference, and has been productive and a major contributor for a winning team for 2-3 years). Stylistically, Davis fits the bill, trend wise its Williams.


Yeah, this is true.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

game3525 wrote:
Quote:
As far as Davis, the thing is that there was never any questions about his athleticism. He may be a 4.5 guy, but his quickness/agility are top level at the position. He actually kind of has the same vibe as Keenan Allen did at Cal. A WR that was decently tall (but not 6'3"+) and incredibly quick, but plays bigger and more physical than his size suggests, and while he's not the fastest, he's a nighmare with the ball in his hands. I don't see him being the pick either, but I would much rather have him than Williams (though I would think Williams would be an FO favorite).


Maybe John Spanos would like Williams more, but I am not so sure that would be the case for Telesco, giving the kind of receivers the Colts drafted when he was in Indy under Polian.

Huh?

Looking at just 1st and very early 2nd round picks (because that's what we're talking about here - looking at Day 2 guys is comparing apples to oranges):

Jerome Pathon ('98, Washington) - power 5 conference
Reggie Wayne ('01, Miami) - power 5 conference
(Dallas Clark, '0, Iowa - power 5 conference)
Anthony Gonzalez ('07, Ohio State) - power 5 conference

Literally, that's the 1st round receivers he "drafted" in Indy under Polian... every single one of them is a power 5 conference guy.
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game3525


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
game3525 wrote:
Quote:
As far as Davis, the thing is that there was never any questions about his athleticism. He may be a 4.5 guy, but his quickness/agility are top level at the position. He actually kind of has the same vibe as Keenan Allen did at Cal. A WR that was decently tall (but not 6'3"+) and incredibly quick, but plays bigger and more physical than his size suggests, and while he's not the fastest, he's a nighmare with the ball in his hands. I don't see him being the pick either, but I would much rather have him than Williams (though I would think Williams would be an FO favorite).


Maybe John Spanos would like Williams more, but I am not so sure that would be the case for Telesco, giving the kind of receivers the Colts drafted when he was in Indy under Polian.

Huh?

Looking at just 1st and very early 2nd round picks (because that's what we're talking about here - looking at Day 2 guys is comparing apples to oranges):

Jerome Pathon ('98, Washington) - power 5 conference
Reggie Wayne ('01, Miami) - power 5 conference
(Dallas Clark, '0, Iowa - power 5 conference)
Anthony Gonzalez ('07, Ohio State) - power 5 conference

Literally, that's the 1st round receivers he "drafted" in Indy under Polian... every single one of them is a power 5 conference guy.


I am talking about stylistically.
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