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Kirk Cousins is our long term answer
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
And for the umpteenth time I wouldn't sign him to a long term deal unless you consider 5 years with a option the 3rd year long term. Brady, Rodgers, Marino, Elway, Brees, Manning all made big plays when needed to get there team over the hump! Kirk had a bad game last year against the Packers in the playoffs and a bad game this year when it was a must win to get us in the playoffs. He's not in the class of Brady, Rodgers, Elway, Brees, or Manning when it comes down to decision making or trust going into a game compared to those guys in my book.
If teams only re-signed HOF QBs, no one would have any QBs.


I dont think I said I wouldn't resign him, I said I would only resign him for the right price. Brady making more or asking for more than 25 million per year? Think he's turned down plenty of chances to increase his salary but hasnt and still makes no names look like Greats!
The problem is there is a real market for Qbs who are top 10 starting Qbs and a "fictional Redskins fans will pay this much for Kirk Cousins market," your contract offer falls into the latter and when that happens, you can either just let Kirk walk, or use the non-exclusive tag on him and trade him or tag him this year only to have him walk next offseason. He's not going to sign your contract, and if he's not going to sign your lowball contract, just like last offseaon, he'll walk, be tagged again, be tagged and traded or be tagged with his year and walk next offseason.

You say you want Cousins to be our Qb, but you sound exactly like ascot McCloughan and the skins FO last offseason, you are lowballing him by at the least $20 million in guarantees and Kirk is not going to go for that because when he hits the open market he will get a contract that makes him the most expensive qb in the NFL - for how every long that is, could be days, weeks, months or a year until the next qb signs a bigger deal - no matter what you think he should sign, that doesn't matter, the truth is he's going to break contract records if he hits the open FA market because there's a handful of teams, including the skins that will be bidding on his services. Cousins knows this, he's smarter than you or I and most people about his own situation.

If he did hit free agency I have no doubt that the teeet that HTTTRG3 posted would be true from EB on the junkies when they had a former agent on their show a week ago:

@ebjunkies
Quote:
Wow. @corryjoel suggests on open market Kirk could potentially get $26.5+ mil per yr... $90 million guaranteed. Id want to leave too.
Kirk is going to bet on himself if the skins aren't going to coke close to this. Now, the deal can be structured in such a way that his cap hit for the next two seasons is lower than or right around what his cap hit was this year and then gets higher for the next 6 or 7 years after.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Kirk Cousins was better in 2016 and the Redskins almost have to pay him what he deserves on the open market


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/01/03/kirk-cousins-got-so-much-better-this-season-the-redskins-almost-have-to-pay-him/?tid=sm_tw_ps&utm_term=.36f6c85c608f
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RSkinGM


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Yes, Kirk Cousins was better in 2016 and the Redskins almost have to pay him what he deserves on the open market


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/01/03/kirk-cousins-got-so-much-better-this-season-the-redskins-almost-have-to-pay-him/?tid=sm_tw_ps&utm_term=.36f6c85c608f


He wasn't better in 2016.. We finished 2015 with 4 wins and made the Playoffs . He threw 29 TD passes vs. 25 and 11 interceptions vs. 12. We lost and he played badly vs. Arizona , Carolina and The Giants .. Three times we needed wins and he tanked. To Hell with the stats .
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
And for the umpteenth time I wouldn't sign him to a long term deal unless you consider 5 years with a option the 3rd year long term. Brady, Rodgers, Marino, Elway, Brees, Manning all made big plays when needed to get there team over the hump! Kirk had a bad game last year against the Packers in the playoffs and a bad game this year when it was a must win to get us in the playoffs. He's not in the class of Brady, Rodgers, Elway, Brees, or Manning when it comes down to decision making or trust going into a game compared to those guys in my book.
If teams only re-signed HOF QBs, no one would have any QBs.


I dont think I said I wouldn't resign him, I said I would only resign him for the right price. Brady making more or asking for more than 25 million per year? Think he's turned down plenty of chances to increase his salary but hasnt and still makes no names look like Greats!
The problem is there is a real market for Qbs who are top 10 starting Qbs and a "fictional Redskins fans will pay this much for Kirk Cousins market," your contract offer falls into the latter and when that happens, you can either just let Kirk walk, or use the non-exclusive tag on him and trade him or tag him this year only to have him walk next offseason. He's not going to sign your contract, and if he's not going to sign your lowball contract, just like last offseaon, he'll walk, be tagged again, be tagged and traded or be tagged with his year and walk next offseason.

You say you want Cousins to be our Qb, but you sound exactly like ascot McCloughan and the skins FO last offseason, you are lowballing him by at the least $20 million in guarantees and Kirk is not going to go for that because when he hits the open market he will get a contract that makes him the most expensive qb in the NFL - for how every long that is, could be days, weeks, months or a year until the next qb signs a bigger deal - no matter what you think he should sign, that doesn't matter, the truth is he's going to break contract records if he hits the open FA market because there's a handful of teams, including the skins that will be bidding on his services. Cousins knows this, he's smarter than you or I and most people about his own situation.

If he did hit free agency I have no doubt that the teeet that HTTTRG3 posted would be true from EB on the junkies when they had a former agent on their show a week ago:

@ebjunkies
Quote:
Wow. @corryjoel suggests on open market Kirk could potentially get $26.5+ mil per yr... $90 million guaranteed. Id want to leave too.
Kirk is going to bet on himself if the skins aren't going to coke close to this. Now, the deal can be structured in such a way that his cap hit for the next two seasons is lower than or right around what his cap hit was this year and then gets higher for the next 6 or 7 years after.


Turlte if you haven't notice by now, I dont care if he feels lowballed! I felt lowballed watching him against Dallas twice!! I felt lowballed watching him at home throw 2 picks against the Giants in a must win game! So yea once again take the deal or you will be traded or possibly Franchised again Mr Cousins!

Your thinking like the Eagles, Houston, and Miami. I'm thinking like SM of last year and Elway when he let Brock go to another team for more guranteed money only to be benched! It's no guarantee Cousins will succeed anywhere else! Its happen to plenty of guys in new systems. Guess your so one sided you cant see that. Long deal and he ends up being our Tony Romo, your gonna be happy with a QB who you cant count on in BIG GAMES and BIG Moments?
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Marcus21


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes, Kirk Cousins was better in 2016 and the Redskins almost have to pay him what he deserves on the open market


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/01/03/kirk-cousins-got-so-much-better-this-season-the-redskins-almost-have-to-pay-him/?tid=sm_tw_ps&utm_term=.36f6c85c608f


He wasn't better in 2016.. We finished 2015 with 4 wins and made the Playoffs . He threw 29 TD passes vs. 25 and 11 interceptions vs. 12. We lost and he played badly vs. Arizona , Carolina and The Giants .. Three times we needed wins and he tanked. To Hell with the stats .


You have to take into consideration how epicly bad our defense was this year! We didn't score one point on D! Take the Bears game out and we were dead mast in takeaways! Every win we had this years was solely on Kirks back! With out Kirk, we win 2 games!!
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes, Kirk Cousins was better in 2016 and the Redskins almost have to pay him what he deserves on the open market


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/01/03/kirk-cousins-got-so-much-better-this-season-the-redskins-almost-have-to-pay-him/?tid=sm_tw_ps&utm_term=.36f6c85c608f


He wasn't better in 2016.. We finished 2015 with 4 wins and made the Playoffs . He threw 29 TD passes vs. 25 and 11 interceptions vs. 12. We lost and he played badly vs. Arizona , Carolina and The Giants .. Three times we needed wins and he tanked. To Hell with the stats .


So you don't think that the defense, who couldn't stop an old guy on a walker, was the issue? If teams can run on us, hrm, much like the teams you mentioned above (David Johnson, 84 yards, 1 TD) (Jonathan Stewart, 132 yards) (Paul Perkins, 102 yards and Rashad Jennings, 52 yards, 1 TD) then we don't stand much of a chance.

The issues of the defense are not to rest on Cousins. He can only do so much if the defense cannot get off the field and stop anyone. But his play is no correlation to how the defense performed.
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes, Kirk Cousins was better in 2016 and the Redskins almost have to pay him what he deserves on the open market


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/01/03/kirk-cousins-got-so-much-better-this-season-the-redskins-almost-have-to-pay-him/?tid=sm_tw_ps&utm_term=.36f6c85c608f


He wasn't better in 2016.. We finished 2015 with 4 wins and made the Playoffs . He threw 29 TD passes vs. 25 and 11 interceptions vs. 12. We lost and he played badly vs. Arizona , Carolina and The Giants .. Three times we needed wins and he tanked. To Hell with the stats .


So you don't think that the defense, who couldn't stop an old guy on a walker, was the issue? If teams can run on us, hrm, much like the teams you mentioned above (David Johnson, 84 yards, 1 TD) (Jonathan Stewart, 132 yards) (Paul Perkins, 102 yards and Rashad Jennings, 52 yards, 1 TD) then we don't stand much of a chance.

The issues of the defense are not to rest on Cousins. He can only do so much if the defense cannot get off the field and stop anyone. But his play is no correlation to how the defense performed.


When the Deffense gives the offense mutiple opportunities to put up extra points or more points than the opposing team by getting turnovers, forcing three and outs, or holding opponents to FGs the offense has to convert. I dont care if we gave up 99 yards each drive if we dont let the opposing team score 7 points, the D has done something well. Not saying this like the D doesn't have issues, but when they did play well it was plenty of times the offense failed them as well. Kirk and that offense early in the season cost us some games because of the inability to put up 7 points consistently in the Redzone sometimes even off stops the D made.
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FosterTheSkins


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/football-insider/wp/2017/01/11/here-are-seven-ways-the-redskins-kirk-cousins-contract-negotiations-could-play-out/?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, all the assets, all the tools, all the commiment to the offense and they , led by Capt Kirk can't score 14 stinking points to beat the Giants and get to the Playoffs .. AT HOME----------REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????? Rolling Eyes
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yes, Kirk Cousins was better in 2016 and the Redskins almost have to pay him what he deserves on the open market


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/01/03/kirk-cousins-got-so-much-better-this-season-the-redskins-almost-have-to-pay-him/?tid=sm_tw_ps&utm_term=.36f6c85c608f


He wasn't better in 2016.. We finished 2015 with 4 wins and made the Playoffs . He threw 29 TD passes vs. 25 and 11 interceptions vs. 12. We lost and he played badly vs. Arizona , Carolina and The Giants .. Three times we needed wins and he tanked. To Hell with the stats .
Yay for one stat! And hello! All those defenses were good, we couldn't run the ball in those games because of those teams DTs and our defense is atrocious. The only game our defense played average in the last month was vs the NYG.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
And for the umpteenth time I wouldn't sign him to a long term deal unless you consider 5 years with a option the 3rd year long term. Brady, Rodgers, Marino, Elway, Brees, Manning all made big plays when needed to get there team over the hump! Kirk had a bad game last year against the Packers in the playoffs and a bad game this year when it was a must win to get us in the playoffs. He's not in the class of Brady, Rodgers, Elway, Brees, or Manning when it comes down to decision making or trust going into a game compared to those guys in my book.
If teams only re-signed HOF QBs, no one would have any QBs.


I dont think I said I wouldn't resign him, I said I would only resign him for the right price. Brady making more or asking for more than 25 million per year? Think he's turned down plenty of chances to increase his salary but hasnt and still makes no names look like Greats!
The problem is there is a real market for Qbs who are top 10 starting Qbs and a "fictional Redskins fans will pay this much for Kirk Cousins market," your contract offer falls into the latter and when that happens, you can either just let Kirk walk, or use the non-exclusive tag on him and trade him or tag him this year only to have him walk next offseason. He's not going to sign your contract, and if he's not going to sign your lowball contract, just like last offseaon, he'll walk, be tagged again, be tagged and traded or be tagged with his year and walk next offseason.

You say you want Cousins to be our Qb, but you sound exactly like ascot McCloughan and the skins FO last offseason, you are lowballing him by at the least $20 million in guarantees and Kirk is not going to go for that because when he hits the open market he will get a contract that makes him the most expensive qb in the NFL - for how every long that is, could be days, weeks, months or a year until the next qb signs a bigger deal - no matter what you think he should sign, that doesn't matter, the truth is he's going to break contract records if he hits the open FA market because there's a handful of teams, including the skins that will be bidding on his services. Cousins knows this, he's smarter than you or I and most people about his own situation.

If he did hit free agency I have no doubt that the teeet that HTTTRG3 posted would be true from EB on the junkies when they had a former agent on their show a week ago:

@ebjunkies
Quote:
Wow. @corryjoel suggests on open market Kirk could potentially get $26.5+ mil per yr... $90 million guaranteed. Id want to leave too.
Kirk is going to bet on himself if the skins aren't going to coke close to this. Now, the deal can be structured in such a way that his cap hit for the next two seasons is lower than or right around what his cap hit was this year and then gets higher for the next 6 or 7 years after.


Turlte if you haven't notice by now, I dont care if he feels lowballed! I felt lowballed watching him against Dallas twice!! I felt lowballed watching him at home throw 2 picks against the Giants in a must win game! So yea once again take the deal or you will be traded or possibly Franchised again Mr Cousins!

Your thinking like the Eagles, Houston, and Miami. I'm thinking like SM of last year and Elway when he let Brock go to another team for more guranteed money only to be benched! It's no guarantee Cousins will succeed anywhere else! Its happen to plenty of guys in new systems. Guess your so one sided you cant see that. Long deal and he ends up being our Tony Romo, your gonna be happy with a QB who you cant count on in BIG GAMES and BIG Moments?


See bolded...

And yet, by Scot doing that, he not only DIDN'T help the team, but he then handed Kirk even MORE leverage over the team.

The second point invalidates your whole argument. Yes, Elway let Brock go.

...The SB winning team with a great defense...let Brock go..

And even though Brock got benched (for a time), Brock still led his team to the playoffs while the Broncos didn't make it (even with a good defense and arguably the best defensive player in the NFL).

Because even with that defense, that 7th rounder and the rookie were far inferior to Brock.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
Yep, all the assets, all the tools, all the commiment to the offense and they , led by Capt Kirk can't score 14 stinking points to beat the Giants and get to the Playoffs .. AT HOME----------REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????? Rolling Eyes


Yep. They left a steaming pile on the field.

Including Kirk.

And yet, with no really good running game, Kirk led us to 8 wins. So if you're going to put the Giants game on his hotel bill (and I agree you should), you need to ALSO recognize we don't have 8 wins without him. Because with our poo poo run offense and our OL not being all that great and our defense historically bad, that doesn't point to a winning season. And yet, Kirk QB'ed us to two straight winning seasons for the first time in a very long time.

By all means though, please just focus on the last game...then lowball him and tag him (because you gave him an insulting offer like the 2015/2016 offseason) and run him out of town. I can't wait to return the the Redskins of Snyder's earlier years. I'm feeling nostalgic. Rolling Eyes
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
daskins wrote:
Seriously - This is the first time in 20+ years that we know we got a guy that can do it. My entire adulthood of being a skins fan has circled around what are we going to do at QB. I remember pulling into work listening to who is better, Rex Grossman or Todd Collins. Now we have a guy who leads the team and throws for over 4000 yards (almost 5k) for two straight seasons and we are pulling every ridiculous reason that he isnt worth commiting to? Craziness. I am so excited that QB is not the worry that we have. We put together a solid D, stop letting anybody run for any amount of yards that they want to against us, and we are serious players. Dumbfounded that this is a conversation.


When those 4000 yards turn into Playoff wins and SBs than I'll be excited instead of being constantly disappointed.
The only way to find the answer to this is to retain Cousins on the most financially prudent way possible which is a long term deal - not the franchise tag again - and use the extra cap space to sign defensive free agents and retain our own free agent.

It's very short sided to do anything else but a long term deal when there are no other better options or nothing else that would be a sure thing.

Acting like 4000 and nearly 5000 yard seasons don't mean jack is preposterous. We have a qb who for two where has done something that no other qb in the team's history and is breaking team records year after year. Giving that up doesn't make much sense. Kirk needs to be retained on a long term deal and we need to continue to build a super bowl contender around Kirk.


Thats your opinon Turtle and your entitled to that. He also goes into the category of players who have done nothing for this team to win a playoff game or SB so once again I wouldnt give him anything more than 25 million a year on a 5 year deal with a way out in year 3. Imma leave it there and wait and see how things actually go. I'm pretty sure they will offer him a fair deal but he may want more money elsewhere.


Hehe...you seriously haven't been watching any of our games then.

As for what they might offer him, that is surely up in the air. We'll see. I doubt it will be what he is worth but in negotiations that is to be expected from the side who is paying the money


Yea I'm just making this all up. We are the best team in the league and Kirk Cousins was the MVP of the league and where on our way to the Super Bowl right? Kirk didnt throw two picks in the game against the Giants? Yea i haven't watched any games this season!


You are apparently watching something else if you think he's done nothing for the team. You also are apparently making up contract numbers out of thin air if you think he's going to sign a contract with only 45M guaranteed (like you stated earlier).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
And for the umpteenth time I wouldn't sign him to a long term deal unless you consider 5 years with a option the 3rd year long term. Brady, Rodgers, Marino, Elway, Brees, Manning all made big plays when needed to get there team over the hump! Kirk had a bad game last year against the Packers in the playoffs and a bad game this year when it was a must win to get us in the playoffs. He's not in the class of Brady, Rodgers, Elway, Brees, or Manning when it comes down to decision making or trust going into a game compared to those guys in my book.
If teams only re-signed HOF QBs, no one would have any QBs.


I dont think I said I wouldn't resign him, I said I would only resign him for the right price. Brady making more or asking for more than 25 million per year? Think he's turned down plenty of chances to increase his salary but hasnt and still makes no names look like Greats!


So then he's a top 10 QB (not top 5). I can live with that. Doesn't mean that when he is a FA he's not going to command top dollar. Top 10 QBs don't become FAs too often. By all means, please identify the QB you would replace him with right now. Because he's not going to sign your lowball offer. And will instead force the tag and then leave next year. So you better be ready to:

A) Start over at QB
B) See A - then you're starting over on offense
C) See A - then you're not drafting a stud defensive player in the 1st this year
D) See A - no defensive FA is going to want to come to a team that is rebuilding on BOTH sides of the ball.

So, if you want this team to continue to suck. Lowball him.

If you want this team (not just at QB) to continue to get better, you sign him to a market rate contract that we can get out of in 3 years. That way our offensive players continue to grow and since we have a good offense, we can attrlact defensive players to shore up the defense...AND use our 2017 and 2018 early picks on defense instead of packaging them to move up to get a QB that may or may not flame out.

Nah...your way seems better. Let's get rid of him by lowballing him and giving him an offer no QB in his position would sign. Because I'm fairly certain that if the Redskins do that (lowball me with a ridiculous offer) again this year and I force them to tag me, I'm not going to come to the table this summer and work out a long term deal and will instead make plans to leave in 2018. And if that works out that way, I won't blame Cousins one bit.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
Yep, all the assets, all the tools, all the commiment to the offense and they , led by Capt Kirk can't score 14 stinking points to beat the Giants and get to the Playoffs .. AT HOME----------REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????????? Rolling Eyes


Yep. They left a steaming pile on the field. And yet, with no really good running game, Kirk led us to 8 wins. So if you're going to put the Giants game on his hotel bill (and I agree you should), you need to ALSO recognize we don't have 8 wins without him. Because with our poo poo run offense and our OL not being all that great and our defense historically bad, that doesn't point to a winning season. And yet, Kirk QB'ed us to two straight winning seasons for the first time in a very long time.

By all means though, please just focus on the last game...then lowball him and tag him (because you gave him an insulting offer like the 2015/2016 offseason) and run him out of town. I can't wait to return the the Redskins of Snyder's earlier years. I'm feeling nostalgic. Rolling Eyes
First time in 20 years we had back to back winning seasons and we would have been in the playoffs if our FG kicker didn't miss a 33 yarder vs Cincy.

Maybe that was Kirk's fault too ... or was it Norman's who I think had 50 penalty yards in that game just by himself and the kicker.
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