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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Bucs fans who wanted Olivier Vernon. 1 sack through 8 games. 18-19 million per year.

Free agency?
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38307
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
For Bucs fans who wanted Olivier Vernon. 1 sack through 8 games. 18-19 million per year.

Free agency?

He's got two sacks now. And a ton of hurries. And he might be the best true DE at setting the edge against the run.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
For Bucs fans who wanted Olivier Vernon. 1 sack through 8 games. 18-19 million per year.

Free agency?

He's got two sacks now. And a ton of hurries. And he might be the best true DE at setting the edge against the run.


So he's worth Von Miller money? I mean Bill Bellichik shipped two studs Bc he wouldn't pay them that type of contract.
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38307
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
For Bucs fans who wanted Olivier Vernon. 1 sack through 8 games. 18-19 million per year.

Free agency?

He's got two sacks now. And a ton of hurries. And he might be the best true DE at setting the edge against the run.


So he's worth Von Miller money? I mean Bill Bellichik shipped two studs Bc he wouldn't pay them that type of contract.

BB also has the GOAT at QB. That helps quite a bit.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
For Bucs fans who wanted Olivier Vernon. 1 sack through 8 games. 18-19 million per year.

Free agency?

He's got two sacks now. And a ton of hurries. And he might be the best true DE at setting the edge against the run.


So he's worth Von Miller money? I mean Bill Bellichik shipped two studs Bc he wouldn't pay them that type of contract.

BB also has the GOAT at QB. That helps quite a bit.

Or it's BB who's the greatest of all time. 3-1 without Brady this year. 11-5 with cassel in 08.
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nathan004


Joined: 12 Feb 2014
Posts: 1530
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
For Bucs fans who wanted Olivier Vernon. 1 sack through 8 games. 18-19 million per year.

Free agency?

He's got two sacks now. And a ton of hurries. And he might be the best true DE at setting the edge against the run.


So he's worth Von Miller money? I mean Bill Bellichik shipped two studs Bc he wouldn't pay them that type of contract.

BB also has the GOAT at QB. That helps quite a bit.

Or it's BB who's the greatest of all time. 3-1 without Brady this year. 11-5 with cassel in 08.


You're just going to nit pick from one player in what was probably one of the weakest group of Free agents in recent memory as an example for not to add through FA/Trade? Not to mention that he's played the entire season with a broken hand.

Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. That doesn't mean that you completely abandon it. The Broncos built that defense around Von Miller using FA/Trade. The New England Patriots are probably one of the most active teams in trades. Demarco Murray is currently the best RB in the league (again) after being traded to the right team.

I'll even add that while we are expected to have the most cap space in the league we should focus on paying our own, but outside of those who have recently been extended can you tell me one player outside Mike Evans who deserves a hedty contract extension?

Would anyone be upset adding Eric Berry this offseason? He fixes a major need for this defense, but no. Avoid him like the plague because we haven't done well recently in FA and will cost too much of something that we have boat loads of which is cap space. It's ridiculous.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nit picking ? Most players that hit the market and get overpaid are not as good as advertised whether it's they take the money and fold or they aren't good outside the scheme they started in.

If a team has a great player , they find ways to keep him. Only Tampa and the bad franchises seem to let good ones slip away. (See Michael Bennett)

I would have no problem going after Eric berry by the way. But I put that at a slim to none chance KC lets him go. He's a stud and they'll clear cap room to keep him.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I just witnessed Mariota lose the game for the Titans today. Other than his 3 huge turnovers he played well. Good to see that Winston is not the only second year QB making mistakes. At this point its human nature.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just Winston. It's the entire squad at this point. I've voiced my displeasure with so called key defensive players like McCoy and David are are being paid big bucks and are non existent almost. Yes I'd like to see better and consistent accuracy from Winston.

We need time and patience sure. But the "studs" who are paid top dollar need to produce.

Improvement over the next 8 weeks must be shown to ride momentum in the offseason and give us a clear standings what we need to address.

#1. Bench conte. Start smith. You're either looking for 2 safeties or 1 if he shows promise.

#2. Play Shepard at number 2 receiver. See what he can do.
#3. Move Marpet or pamphile to Center. Sweezy will be back and at that contract he won't ride the bench. Both guys received snaps at center in TC.
# 4. Play Noah spence full time. Get him some reps against he run. Like what I see as a rusher.
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nathan004


Joined: 12 Feb 2014
Posts: 1530
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Nit picking ? Most players that hit the market and get overpaid are not as good as advertised whether it's they take the money and fold or they aren't good outside the scheme they started in.

If a team has a great player , they find ways to keep him. Only Tampa and the bad franchises seem to let good ones slip away. (See Michael Bennett)

I would have no problem going after Eric berry by the way. But I put that at a slim to none chance KC lets him go. He's a stud and they'll clear cap room to keep him.


So, great players have never left their team before to enter FA and been successful elsewhere? Smh. Only bad teams let them go. Yes, they certainly do and since there are a number of bad teams out there and we have the money to sign said players we should just pass on them because, well, we're Tampa and FA's don't work out here often enough.

If the argument was more about being focus on the right moves and not just big name guys I can get on board with that. But to ignored big name guys completely because of the price tag is still the DUMBEST argument ever. We've swung and missed on several FA"s but can someone tell me the last time we had CAP issues? It's not a money or name issue. It's a fit/coaching/culture issue with Tampa. Plenty of guys here would be successful in the past but this organization has more deep rooted issues to deal.
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nathan004


Joined: 12 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
It's not just Winston. It's the entire squad at this point. I've voiced my displeasure with so called key defensive players like McCoy and David are are being paid big bucks and are non existent almost. Yes I'd like to see better and consistent accuracy from Winston.

We need time and patience sure. But the "studs" who are paid top dollar need to produce.

Improvement over the next 8 weeks must be shown to ride momentum in the offseason and give us a clear standings what we need to address.

#1. Bench conte. Start smith. You're either looking for 2 safeties or 1 if he shows promise.

#2. Play Shepard at number 2 receiver. See what he can do.
#3. Move Marpet or pamphile to Center. Sweezy will be back and at that contract he won't ride the bench. Both guys received snaps at center in TC.
# 4. Play Noah spence full time. Get him some reps against he run. Like what I see as a rusher.


Thank you for finally acknowledging we need to be patient.

1) Agree with Conte for Smith. Safety is a travesty right now and we drafted Smith to be one and we can't do any worse than Conte.
2) Agree on Shepard. WTH is Shorts still on this roster?
3)Don't F-ing touch Marpet. Why would we even consider moving him anywhere than RG? He's our best OL and is getting better. Pamphile. Fine. Give him a shot.
4) Worried about Spence's injury. I spent my Senior year in high school braced up at the shoulder due to a dislocation and I'll tell you that if it doesn't get time to heal correctly it will be a lingering issue and become much worse. Popped out of it's socket over 20 times through the season.
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Calibucsfan


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 5557
Location: Los Angeles, Republic Of Kekistan
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
And I just witnessed Mariota lose the game for the Titans today. Other than his 3 huge turnovers he played well. Good to see that Winston is not the only second year QB making mistakes. At this point its human nature.

I watched that whole game from start to finish

It's pretty much what I've been knowing.
Mariota has far more better supporting cast.
He has much better WR's, TE, RB's and record wise, the Titans defense is far better than ours.

It's hard to do a direct Winston vs Mariota debate because like I said, the weapons Mariota has is on another level. Yes Evans is better than anyone they got but he is one target. Mariota has 3-4 legit targets to throw to.
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38307
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
indifference wrote:
And I just witnessed Mariota lose the game for the Titans today. Other than his 3 huge turnovers he played well. Good to see that Winston is not the only second year QB making mistakes. At this point its human nature.

I watched that whole game from start to finish

It's pretty much what I've been knowing.
Mariota has far more better supporting cast.
He has much better WR's, TE, RB's and record wise, the Titans defense is far better than ours.

It's hard to do a direct Winston vs Mariota debate because like I said, the weapons Mariota has is on another level. Yes Evans is better than anyone they got but he is one target. Mariota has 3-4 legit targets to throw to.

And it was the opposite argument last year. Funny what difference an offseason makes. Laughing
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
indifference wrote:
And I just witnessed Mariota lose the game for the Titans today. Other than his 3 huge turnovers he played well. Good to see that Winston is not the only second year QB making mistakes. At this point its human nature.

I watched that whole game from start to finish

It's pretty much what I've been knowing.
Mariota has far more better supporting cast.
He has much better WR's, TE, RB's and record wise, the Titans defense is far better than ours.

It's hard to do a direct Winston vs Mariota debate because like I said, the weapons Mariota has is on another level. Yes Evans is better than anyone they got but he is one target. Mariota has 3-4 legit targets to throw to.


Agree it's difficult to assess both qbs. Can't argue both rosters are quite young. Titans have a young OL. But yet they have a two headed monster in the backfield.

Weapons in the receiving Corp? Mariota may have a few above average receivers and a top 10 Te. Mike Evans is a stud though and that he doesn't have.

These two will be compared for years and even though well make comments in frustration of who we wanted or who we should've taken, as Bucs fans, root to hope Winston becomes the guy he was drafted to be.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 11222
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calibucsfan wrote:
indifference wrote:
And I just witnessed Mariota lose the game for the Titans today. Other than his 3 huge turnovers he played well. Good to see that Winston is not the only second year QB making mistakes. At this point its human nature.

I watched that whole game from start to finish

It's pretty much what I've been knowing.
Mariota has far more better supporting cast.
He has much better WR's, TE, RB's and record wise, the Titans defense is far better than ours.

It's hard to do a direct Winston vs Mariota debate because like I said, the weapons Mariota has is on another level. Yes Evans is better than anyone they got but he is one target. Mariota has 3-4 legit targets to throw to.


Agree it's difficult to assess both qbs. Can't argue both rosters are quite young. Titans have a young OL. But yet they have a two headed monster in the backfield.

Weapons in the receiving Corp? Mariota may have a few above average receivers and a top 10 Te. Mike Evans is a stud though and that he doesn't have.

These two will be compared for years and even though well make comments in frustration of who we wanted or who we should've taken, as Bucs fans, root to hope Winston becomes the guy he was drafted to be.
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