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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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Location: La Mesa, CA
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counselor wrote:
Scotty Payne is kind of a joke over at MHR arguing for Teez Tabor and posters are pointing out his 40 and he is defending Tabor Cus he is his favorite corner to the death. Kind of pathetic his arguments against the shown lack of
Speed.
Not to be a total jackass (well, a little) but that guy knows nothing about football. His opinions are basically just aggregations of whatever the more reactionary and vocal half of Broncos fans feel at the time, ever-shifting arbitrarily, and his analysis is a joke. Fair share of annoying Broncos fan-alysts but he might be the worst.
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
I think one could argue that Joe Mixon is the best RB in this draft and there are supposed to be 3 that go in the first round.

Mixon is big 6'1" 230 and does it all. He is probably the 2nd best receiver out of the backfield behind McCaffrey and in most drafts would be the best. He's big with wiggle and speed at 6'1" 230 with 4.45 speed. The only real knock I see is he runs a bit high.

He's an elite talent and 3 down back that compares similarly to Ezekiel Elliot and David Johnson. He will be a steal when he's drafted as he likely goes 2nd or 3rd round.

With all of that, I don't want him in Denver, even though all of his past will be forgotten when he is successful.


I just don't get this logic especially as a objective football fan. I mean you look at the greats in Nfl history like a Laurence Taylor and I never hear thise issues brought up.
Or a Ray Lewis, the guy waa in a murder trial and the Ravens still kept him around. Because winning two superbowls triumphs everything.

Adrian Peterson got suspended a year for beating his child and judging by the photos seeing a grown man do that to a innocent child is despicable.

The Patriots drafted a first round talent at the te position who murdered people.

I want Mixon for one reason and one reason only because I don't think what he did deserves a death sentence for a career. I'd rather be the team to rehabilitate him than Bill belichick.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
I think one could argue that Joe Mixon is the best RB in this draft and there are supposed to be 3 that go in the first round.

Mixon is big 6'1" 230 and does it all. He is probably the 2nd best receiver out of the backfield behind McCaffrey and in most drafts would be the best. He's big with wiggle and speed at 6'1" 230 with 4.45 speed. The only real knock I see is he runs a bit high.

He's an elite talent and 3 down back that compares similarly to Ezekiel Elliot and David Johnson. He will be a steal when he's drafted as he likely goes 2nd or 3rd round.

With all of that, I don't want him in Denver, even though all of his past will be forgotten when he is successful.


I just don't get this logic especially as a objective football fan. I mean you look at the greats in Nfl history like a Laurence Taylor and I never hear thise issues brought up.
Or a Ray Lewis, the guy waa in a murder trial and the Ravens still kept him around. Because winning two superbowls triumphs everything.

Adrian Peterson got suspended a year for beating his child and judging by the photos seeing a grown man do that to a innocent child is despicable.

The Patriots drafted a first round talent at the te position who murdered people.

I want Mixon for one reason and one reason only because I don't think what he did deserves a death sentence for a career. I'd rather be the team to rehabilitate him than Bill belichick.


None of the guys you listed had the problems they had coming out of college like Mixon. Taylor was no saint but also played in a completely different era. Lewis is disgusting, no argument there. But Peterson and Hernandez were never the same after their issues. Peterson has barely played and Hernandez is waiting for the needle.

What Mixon did is awful, made worse by the fact it's on camera. The same thing applied to Ray Rice. I understand where you're coming from but I personally can't bring myself to root for someone who I watched sucker punch a woman in the face like that.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
Counselor wrote:
Scotty Payne is kind of a joke over at MHR arguing for Teez Tabor and posters are pointing out his 40 and he is defending Tabor Cus he is his favorite corner to the death. Kind of pathetic his arguments against the shown lack of
Speed.
Not to be a total jackass (well, a little) but that guy knows nothing about football. His opinions are basically just aggregations of whatever the more reactionary and vocal half of Broncos fans feel at the time, ever-shifting arbitrarily, and his analysis is a joke. Fair share of annoying Broncos fan-alysts but he might be the worst.


Agreeed about Payne. I don't give him much thought.

I do like Tabor however. People get too caught up in 40 times. If we could land Tabor in Round 2 it would be a huge get
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why isn't this Zack Banner guy getting more attention...seems pretty awesome to me!

http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/3/18/14918296/nfl-draft-preview-offensive-linemen

Or, am I reading this thing all wrong?
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3529
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
Why isn't this Zack Banner guy getting more attention...seems pretty awesome to me!

http://www.milehighreport.com/2017/3/18/14918296/nfl-draft-preview-offensive-linemen

Or, am I reading this thing all wrong?


He's been as big as 385 lbs. He weighed in at 350+ at the Combine. Zero lateral agility, so NFL speed guys would give him a huge problem.

Add in the whole weight issue in altitude, not a fit at all for us. Not enough speed for T, and would have to have incredible bend/flexibility to be a G. High likelihood he busts in the NFL - and when you get as big as 380+, very rare that you keep it off.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3529
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
Counselor wrote:
Scotty Payne is kind of a joke over at MHR arguing for Teez Tabor and posters are pointing out his 40 and he is defending Tabor Cus he is his favorite corner to the death. Kind of pathetic his arguments against the shown lack of
Speed.
Not to be a total jackass (well, a little) but that guy knows nothing about football. His opinions are basically just aggregations of whatever the more reactionary and vocal half of Broncos fans feel at the time, ever-shifting arbitrarily, and his analysis is a joke. Fair share of annoying Broncos fan-alysts but he might be the worst.


Agreeed about Payne. I don't give him much thought.

I do like Tabor however. People get too caught up in 40 times. If we could land Tabor in Round 2 it would be a huge get


I think Tabor would have fallen further to Rd 3-4 after the Combine, but the injury to Sydney Jones and the domestic violence arrest with Jourdan Lewis puts Tebor back into the top-10 CB discussion, which makes Rd 2 very possible.

The thing about his 4.6+ 40 time is that it matches his film profile - guy's very good at reading the QB and is a ballhawk, but he gave a lot of big cushions, and he's not the strongest or straight-line fastest of CB's - he's a great fit for a zone scheme, or an off-coverage scheme. His weakest area is press coverage, IMO - so I don't know that he fits what we try to do when we are in attack mode.

If he falls to Rd 3-4, then he's a very good value pick. At 2.51, I suspect there are better CB's for our scheme, if we were to go that early. If we were more of an off-coverage unit, then he's a great fit. If we want to be a man-up, in-your-face scheme (which is what you need to do to beat the quick-timing, rapid-fire O's like New England's), then his long speed deficiencies and tendency to play off with bigger cushions probably have me pass at Rd 2.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 3146
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really intrigued by the juniors that enter the draft I think that's where the best value is to be had. You take a look of our own Von Miller he would of been a second round pick gad he entered tge 2010 nfl draft that,is crazy value
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Big Palooka wrote:
"They don't have to worry about him making consistent passes. They will win another 2-3 max with him at QB."
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 3146
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
I think one could argue that Joe Mixon is the best RB in this draft and there are supposed to be 3 that go in the first round.

Mixon is big 6'1" 230 and does it all. He is probably the 2nd best receiver out of the backfield behind McCaffrey and in most drafts would be the best. He's big with wiggle and speed at 6'1" 230 with 4.45 speed. The only real knock I see is he runs a bit high.

He's an elite talent and 3 down back that compares similarly to Ezekiel Elliot and David Johnson. He will be a steal when he's drafted as he likely goes 2nd or 3rd round.

With all of that, I don't want him in Denver, even though all of his past will be forgotten when he is successful.


I just don't get this logic especially as a objective football fan. I mean you look at the greats in Nfl history like a Laurence Taylor and I never hear thise issues brought up.
Or a Ray Lewis, the guy waa in a murder trial and the Ravens still kept him around. Because winning two superbowls triumphs everything.

Adrian Peterson got suspended a year for beating his child and judging by the photos seeing a grown man do that to a innocent child is despicable.

The Patriots drafted a first round talent at the te position who murdered people.

I want Mixon for one reason and one reason only because I don't think what he did deserves a death sentence for a career. I'd rather be the team to rehabilitate him than Bill belichick.


None of the guys you listed had the problems they had coming out of college like Mixon. Taylor was no saint but also played in a completely different era. Lewis is disgusting, no argument there. But Peterson and Hernandez were never the same after their issues. Peterson has barely played and Hernandez is waiting for the needle.

What Mixon did is awful, made worse by the fact it's on camera. The same thing applied to Ray Rice. I understand where you're coming from but I personally can't bring myself to root for someone who I watched sucker punch a woman in the face like that.

You never specified coming out of college and we aren't talking about careers never being the same after the incident. The bottom line is teams still rooted for those players; people still wore the jersey.

As a fan I want mixon no where near this team I think he deserves a second chance because I'm in favor of second chances just don't want it to be on this team. As a gm putting my gm hat on like many on this forum I'm taking the guy past the first round. This is a results based business and if I have to dance with the devil to get a premier rb I'm doing that. And after I draft him whether round two or preferably 3. I'm having him serve the community working in soup kitchens, making speeches. Whatever it takes.

I can't take him off my board especially with 3 years of keeping his nose relatively clean.
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Big Palooka wrote:
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, on-field aside here. Just my own take, I don't know the guy. Joe Mixon strikes me as not a young man who made a mistake, but a genuine POS who is sorry he had to face the consequences of his actions. I have vivid images in my head of Mixon tossing his hands up in the air, egging on the crowd chanting "He hits women". His on-field demeanor has always really bothered me. Acts like a total punk after plays. The entire scene AK laid out leading up to the punch is incredibly disturbing. FWIW, he was also accused of hitting another girl in high school.
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jsthomp2007 wrote:
We have to keep in mind that Rob Bironas is dead, but might be an upgrade over McMannus.
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 1933
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
So, on-field aside here. Just my own take, I don't know the guy. Joe Mixon strikes me as not a young man who made a mistake, but a genuine POS who is sorry he had to face the consequences of his actions. I have vivid images in my head of Mixon tossing his hands up in the air, egging on the crowd chanting "He hits women". His on-field demeanor has always really bothered me. Acts like a total punk after plays. The entire scene AK laid out leading up to the punch is incredibly disturbing. FWIW, he was also accused of hitting another girl in high school.


Likely got away with it. Got a college scholarship felt entitled and it happened again. Once he gets away with that last one and goes top 64 he will feel entitled again like he got away with that on and something else will come up. Just wait and see...

He does have a tattoo saying Family First just like Bey Bey on the same exact spot of his arms though... The F's are just different.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
So, on-field aside here. Just my own take, I don't know the guy. Joe Mixon strikes me as not a young man who made a mistake, but a genuine POS who is sorry he had to face the consequences of his actions. I have vivid images in my head of Mixon tossing his hands up in the air, egging on the crowd chanting "He hits women". His on-field demeanor has always really bothered me. Acts like a total punk after plays. The entire scene AK laid out leading up to the punch is incredibly disturbing. FWIW, he was also accused of hitting another girl in high school.


So, did a little more research. It gets more disturbing BB. By his own account, when he left the shop after breaking the girls face he felt immediate remorse. FOR HIS OWN FUTURE! His first thoughts were about how he may have hurt his NFL chances, not that he'd just chased a girl into a shop, forced a confrontation, and seriously messed her up.

This is all public record, not my opinion.

My son, in his 30's has worked with folks like this for over a decade. His opinion, and this is an opinion, is that Mixon is a classic sociopath.

This was not a crime of passion, not alcohol related. This was a premeditated assault. He could have walked away at any time. He did not. He chose, sober to do what he did.

I understand, don't excuse, but understand the occasional domestic issue(anybody here ever had a woman drive them crazy?) or a drunken bar brawl. That was not what happened here. What this kid did was just plain premeditated evil.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
So, on-field aside here. Just my own take, I don't know the guy. Joe Mixon strikes me as not a young man who made a mistake, but a genuine POS who is sorry he had to face the consequences of his actions. I have vivid images in my head of Mixon tossing his hands up in the air, egging on the crowd chanting "He hits women". His on-field demeanor has always really bothered me. Acts like a total punk after plays. The entire scene AK laid out leading up to the punch is incredibly disturbing. FWIW, he was also accused of hitting another girl in high school.


So, did a little more research. It gets more disturbing BB. By his own account, when he left the shop after breaking the girls face he felt immediate remorse. FOR HIS OWN FUTURE! His first thoughts were about how he may have hurt his NFL chances, not that he'd just chased a girl into a shop, forced a confrontation, and seriously messed her up.

This is all public record, not my opinion.

My son, in his 30's has worked with folks like this for over a decade. His opinion, and this is an opinion, is that Mixon is a classic sociopath.

This was not a crime of passion, not alcohol related. This was a premeditated assault. He could have walked away at any time. He did not. He chose, sober to do what he did.

I understand, don't excuse, but understand the occasional domestic issue(anybody here ever had a woman drive them crazy?) or a drunken bar brawl. That was not what happened here. What this kid did was just plain premeditated evil.


I'd rather have McCaffrey...no questions of his character there.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
So, on-field aside here. Just my own take, I don't know the guy. Joe Mixon strikes me as not a young man who made a mistake, but a genuine POS who is sorry he had to face the consequences of his actions. I have vivid images in my head of Mixon tossing his hands up in the air, egging on the crowd chanting "He hits women". His on-field demeanor has always really bothered me. Acts like a total punk after plays. The entire scene AK laid out leading up to the punch is incredibly disturbing. FWIW, he was also accused of hitting another girl in high school.


So, did a little more research. It gets more disturbing BB. By his own account, when he left the shop after breaking the girls face he felt immediate remorse. FOR HIS OWN FUTURE! His first thoughts were about how he may have hurt his NFL chances, not that he'd just chased a girl into a shop, forced a confrontation, and seriously messed her up.

This is all public record, not my opinion.

My son, in his 30's has worked with folks like this for over a decade. His opinion, and this is an opinion, is that Mixon is a classic sociopath.

This was not a crime of passion, not alcohol related. This was a premeditated assault. He could have walked away at any time. He did not. He chose, sober to do what he did.

I understand, don't excuse, but understand the occasional domestic issue(anybody here ever had a woman drive them crazy?) or a drunken bar brawl. That was not what happened here. What this kid did was just plain premeditated evil.


A drunken bar brawl is significantly different than domestic assault against a female. Sure, I've had girlfriends make me nuts, but never once have I contemplated putting my hands on them, let alone sucker punching them and breaking their jaw. I can't really get behind that comment. In fact, I don't really view those two things as related in any conceivable way.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
BroncoBruin wrote:
So, on-field aside here. Just my own take, I don't know the guy. Joe Mixon strikes me as not a young man who made a mistake, but a genuine POS who is sorry he had to face the consequences of his actions. I have vivid images in my head of Mixon tossing his hands up in the air, egging on the crowd chanting "He hits women". His on-field demeanor has always really bothered me. Acts like a total punk after plays. The entire scene AK laid out leading up to the punch is incredibly disturbing. FWIW, he was also accused of hitting another girl in high school.


So, did a little more research. It gets more disturbing BB. By his own account, when he left the shop after breaking the girls face he felt immediate remorse. FOR HIS OWN FUTURE! His first thoughts were about how he may have hurt his NFL chances, not that he'd just chased a girl into a shop, forced a confrontation, and seriously messed her up.

This is all public record, not my opinion.

My son, in his 30's has worked with folks like this for over a decade. His opinion, and this is an opinion, is that Mixon is a classic sociopath.

This was not a crime of passion, not alcohol related. This was a premeditated assault. He could have walked away at any time. He did not. He chose, sober to do what he did.

I understand, don't excuse, but understand the occasional domestic issue(anybody here ever had a woman drive them crazy?) or a drunken bar brawl. That was not what happened here. What this kid did was just plain premeditated evil.


Wouldn't your son also say that these tendencies are also pretty easy to tease out during repeated interviews, 3rd party checks, and a thorough background check? As I understand it, scouting of prospects can be as much as 70 percent devoted to background checks like 3rd-party interviews, face-to-face meets, etc. (Daniel Jeremiah quoted this #, sources below):

http://www.sporttechie.com/2015/02/20/sports/nfl/passing-a-social-media-background-check-is-more-important-than-an-nfl-prospects-40-time/

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/20/teams-conduct-full-background-checks-draft-prospects/HlT06BNQ6wITWjeeIVw2qK/story.html


As damning as the Mixon incident is, and the reports at that time are ugly, they all fit with the hothead, not-my-fault 18 year old male - they all relate to what happened 3 years ago. What's crucial is if it's changed, or if any talk of learning and moving on is just an act. If Mixon is unredeemable due to being a sociopath or having an antiosocial /other pathological personality disorder, it's not necessarily apparent at first glance, but over time, it's pretty easy for organizations that look for these flags to pick up, especially if a guy is placed under the microscope the way Mixon already is experiencing this offseason.

If DEN's FO sees a recurring pattern of behavior or cracks in the interviews with being pressed (like taking responsibility for that action, but not taking responsibility for other situations that are presented to him), then they should avoid. Of course, this requires us to place enough trust in the FO to both do their due diligence, and more importantly, to care enough to look hard enough. If a team really doesn't care, they can just paint a cover story, and take the guy. But given the firestorm of controversy that comes with drafting a guy like Tyreke Hill, Mixon, or even Dez Bryant, it's hard to think that teams wouldn't be invested into doing their due diligence (and to credit Dallas, they went the extra mile and got Dez a "babysitter" from when they drafted him to at least 2015 to ensure he'd stay on the straight and narrow back when they drafted him).

P.S. Again, for the record, I have no problem if we pass on Mixon, especially if we have to take him at 2.51. The draft is so deep 51 players in, and teams don't all follow the board, I could see how he just wouldn't be worth it. Especially since the shelf life of RB's nowadays is so short (guys like Matt Forte & Frank Gore are the exception, not the rule). I just don't have a problem if we do take him, assuming the FO has done their due diligence. If we don't take him as a result of that due diligence, all good too. I don't think we'll be faced with that choice at 3.82, though. It sure looks like enough teams are willing to at least consider him - by last count, apparently the # teams interviewing him is past 12.
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