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iLikeDefense


Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 3605
Location: San Diego--Mile High West
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:

Tickets, evictions, assaults against women............

This kid sounds like the 2nd coming of Lawrence Phillips. Please keep him away from Denver.


I mean, Mixon made a huge mistake but that mistake + ripping a parking ticket in no ways equals Lawrence Phillips.

Something that bothers me about Mixon and the general way we allocate empathy and anger these days is the fact that Dalvin Cook was charged with domestic assault against a 21 year old woman outside a bar far more recently than Mixon but we hear nothing about that. Mixon was caught on camera so he is made to be the moral equivalent of OJ Simpson but Dalvin's charge is not filmed, and therefore we treat it as unsubstantiated.

I understand that getting it on film will increase backlash, but the magnitude that it increases that backlash is pretty outlandish.


Esp since it's clear Mixon and the other party were in conflict from the police report & full video. Not that it excuses him for laying hands - it doesn't. But crucifying him and giving Cook and Dede Westbrook a pass is extremely inconsistent. And most of those who crucify Mixon have no problem taking Cook. It's a reflection of our rush-to-judge mindset without the whole picture.

If our FO has done their work and believes he's learned then I'm ok with him. I'm not ok if he hasn't learned. The problem is we can't tell. I'd hope if we draft him that our FO has done their due diligence.


But who's doing that? I know I certainly haven't.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6824
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:

I mean, Mixon made a huge mistake but that mistake + ripping a parking ticket in no ways equals Lawrence Phillips.

Something that bothers me about Mixon and the general way we allocate empathy and anger these days is the fact that Dalvin Cook was charged with domestic assault against a 21 year old woman outside a bar far more recently than Mixon but we hear nothing about that. Mixon was caught on camera so he is made to be the moral equivalent of OJ Simpson but Dalvin's charge is not filmed, and therefore we treat it as unsubstantiated.

I understand that getting it on film will increase backlash, but the magnitude that it increases that backlash is pretty outlandish.


I'd never even heard of him until his name was mentioned here. Spent an hour on the net to learn a bit. Not good, this kids a piece of work.

By his own account he and a few teammates were arguing with a lady and a gay friend if hers on the street. By his account the lady and her friend got scared and went into a sandwich shop to get away. This is where it gets ugly.

He and his buds won't let it go, follow her in to force the issue and when the little lady slaps him he punches her breaking bones in her face. And why did he follow her in? "hey man, she disrespected me".

Really? Three large athletes force a physical confrontation with a lady and a gay kid and it's not a big deal?

The details of this turn my stomach.

My only hope if he becomes a Bronco is that he feels disrespected by Derek Wolfe.


There's nothing excusable in him laying hands on a woman. I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

Here's the thing - he did that as an 18 year old hotheaded young man. Has he learned? I mean, truly learned & changed? I say that because everyone is entitled to a second chance, and the most likely time to do something incredibly stupid and isolated is as a hotheaded young late-teens / early 20's male. I look back at the sheer stupidity I & my friends got into at that age - the parent in me SMH's at that. I'm not the same guy then I am now. If that's the case with Mixon then I'm willing to give him a second chance.

Now it's also true that if this is part of a pattern or he learned nothing then he's a lost cause. But nothing before or after that awful incident says Mixon had or has a tendency to violence. Unlike Dede Westbrook who had repeated police visits to his GF house, as a contrast. Or Josh Brown with the Giants. Reality is we can't know which it is - isolated incident he's learned from and won't ever do again, or part of a pattern he's not changing from and we just haven't seen the next episode. We have to trust in our FO to be responsible enough to do their homework here.

I'm totally fine if he doesn't pass a thorough vetting by our FO and we don't put him on our draft board. I'm just not so quick to condemn him as DND for something he did as a 18 year old young man...if he's learned and changed (if being a big if), and the FO believes this is the case. And certainly not willing to write him off for character concerns if ppl are fine with drafting guys like Dalvin Cook or Dede Westbrook. I dislike the inconsistency BF2010 is alluding to here. That's all.


I don't know who those guys are either. I'll probably look 'em up too.

My real issue is this. Virtually every physical confrontation involving women and athletes is either a domestic situation or alcohol related. Although still inexcusable, at least some kind of extenuating circumstance
was involved.

Not with this kid. Light of day, pursues her into a shop she'd entered to escape he and his friends, forces an altercation and punches her lights out.

That is incredibly f****d up!
This was neither.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 2822
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iLikeDefense wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:

Tickets, evictions, assaults against women............

This kid sounds like the 2nd coming of Lawrence Phillips. Please keep him away from Denver.


I mean, Mixon made a huge mistake but that mistake + ripping a parking ticket in no ways equals Lawrence Phillips.

Something that bothers me about Mixon and the general way we allocate empathy and anger these days is the fact that Dalvin Cook was charged with domestic assault against a 21 year old woman outside a bar far more recently than Mixon but we hear nothing about that. Mixon was caught on camera so he is made to be the moral equivalent of OJ Simpson but Dalvin's charge is not filmed, and therefore we treat it as unsubstantiated.

I understand that getting it on film will increase backlash, but the magnitude that it increases that backlash is pretty outlandish.


Esp since it's clear Mixon and the other party were in conflict from the police report & full video. Not that it excuses him for laying hands - it doesn't. But crucifying him and giving Cook and Dede Westbrook a pass is extremely inconsistent. And most of those who crucify Mixon have no problem taking Cook. It's a reflection of our rush-to-judge mindset without the whole picture.

If our FO has done their work and believes he's learned then I'm ok with him. I'm not ok if he hasn't learned. The problem is we can't tell. I'd hope if we draft him that our FO has done their due diligence.


But who's doing that? I know I certainly haven't.


I'm not singling people here out - all good. But the Combine let Westbrook attend. And Cook is getting first round love (at least until the Combine results knocked him down). Major double standard being seen here in public.

Again I'm not knocking people here - but it's pretty clear Mixon is being subjected to a standard others who raise Q's just a much should be, but aren't. If Cook is getting a pass, how Mixon is getting killed is really selective. That's always bothersome to me, but I'm referring to public opinion and ranking, just so we're clear.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 2822
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:

I mean, Mixon made a huge mistake but that mistake + ripping a parking ticket in no ways equals Lawrence Phillips.

Something that bothers me about Mixon and the general way we allocate empathy and anger these days is the fact that Dalvin Cook was charged with domestic assault against a 21 year old woman outside a bar far more recently than Mixon but we hear nothing about that. Mixon was caught on camera so he is made to be the moral equivalent of OJ Simpson but Dalvin's charge is not filmed, and therefore we treat it as unsubstantiated.

I understand that getting it on film will increase backlash, but the magnitude that it increases that backlash is pretty outlandish.


I'd never even heard of him until his name was mentioned here. Spent an hour on the net to learn a bit. Not good, this kids a piece of work.

By his own account he and a few teammates were arguing with a lady and a gay friend if hers on the street. By his account the lady and her friend got scared and went into a sandwich shop to get away. This is where it gets ugly.

He and his buds won't let it go, follow her in to force the issue and when the little lady slaps him he punches her breaking bones in her face. And why did he follow her in? "hey man, she disrespected me".

Really? Three large athletes force a physical confrontation with a lady and a gay kid and it's not a big deal?

The details of this turn my stomach.

My only hope if he becomes a Bronco is that he feels disrespected by Derek Wolfe.


There's nothing excusable in him laying hands on a woman. I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.

Here's the thing - he did that as an 18 year old hotheaded young man. Has he learned? I mean, truly learned & changed? I say that because everyone is entitled to a second chance, and the most likely time to do something incredibly stupid and isolated is as a hotheaded young late-teens / early 20's male. I look back at the sheer stupidity I & my friends got into at that age - the parent in me SMH's at that. I'm not the same guy then I am now. If that's the case with Mixon then I'm willing to give him a second chance.

Now it's also true that if this is part of a pattern or he learned nothing then he's a lost cause. But nothing before or after that awful incident says Mixon had or has a tendency to violence. Unlike Dede Westbrook who had repeated police visits to his GF house, as a contrast. Or Josh Brown with the Giants. Reality is we can't know which it is - isolated incident he's learned from and won't ever do again, or part of a pattern he's not changing from and we just haven't seen the next episode. We have to trust in our FO to be responsible enough to do their homework here.

I'm totally fine if he doesn't pass a thorough vetting by our FO and we don't put him on our draft board. I'm just not so quick to condemn him as DND for something he did as a 18 year old young man...if he's learned and changed (if being a big if), and the FO believes this is the case. And certainly not willing to write him off for character concerns if ppl are fine with drafting guys like Dalvin Cook or Dede Westbrook. I dislike the inconsistency BF2010 is alluding to here. That's all.


I don't know who those guys are either. I'll probably look 'em up too.

My real issue is this. Virtually every physical confrontation involving women and athletes is either a domestic situation or alcohol related. Although still inexcusable, at least some kind of extenuating circumstance

was involved.



Not with this kid. Light of day, pursues her into a shop she'd entered to escape he and his friends, forces an altercation and punches her lights out.

That is incredibly f****d up!
This was neither.


I actually see it the other way - confrontation with a stranger is where you're more likely to do something really stupid as a one-off.

No way you should be hitting your sister, mother, GF, partner, wife. There's no excuse. This is someone you love. It also means you are way more likely to repeat - which is why domestic violence raises huge flags. It's usually not the first or last time because the same parties are there and same reasons to not go there were there before - hard to know why it wouldn't happen again. That's why I'm more willing to see what the FO thinks after interviewing Mixon and doing their background checks and opinions. In most cases of domestic violence, it's often found out to be a pattern of behavior.

Let's face it, there's no excuse for this - but I think the real Q is whether it will happen again, and if he's learned.
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This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, what he did was so, so messed up. But, as hard as it is, I don't think you can judge a person based on a single incident (Outside of sexual assault and murder).

The whole fact that we are having a conversation like this take two pages of the draft thread may be the reason we pass on Joe. It just might not be worth the dialogue to the FO, even if they interview him and he seems to be a genuinely remorseful, empathetic kid.

But make no mistake, after McCaffrey, this kid would easily be the best fit on the Broncos. Elite kick returner, elite pass catcher, game breaking speed when running the ball, size to run between tackles (Although he isn't great at that, yet). He has the whole package.

Quote:

I actually see it the other way - confrontation with a stranger is where you're more likely to do something really stupid as a one-off.

No way you should be hitting your sister, mother, GF, partner, wife. There's no excuse. This is someone you love. It also means you are way more likely to repeat - which is why domestic violence raises huge flags. It's usually not the first or last time because the same parties are there and same reasons to not go there were there before - hard to know why it wouldn't happen again. That's why I'm more willing to see what the FO thinks after interviewing Mixon and doing their background checks and opinions. In most cases of domestic violence, it's often found out to be a pattern of behavior.

Let's face it, there's no excuse for this - but I think the real Q is whether it will happen again, and if he's learned.


Totally agree with the above. Also, this incident happening in daylight doesn't for a second mean Mixon was sober. I was 18 once, and spent many-a-midday trying to get hobos to buy me and the boys malt liquor (Also, what is it about being young that makes you want to drink 40's? Dear god I would have a convulsion if I took a sip of that crap today and I haven't even hit 30)

Back to the point, lets just say I am glad to not be making the decision to draft or avoid Mixon. It wouldn't be a fun proposition.
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broncofan48


Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 2065
Location: Central Montana
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Ya, what he did was so, so messed up. But, as hard as it is, I don't think you can judge a person based on a single incident (Outside of sexual assault and murder).

The whole fact that we are having a conversation like this take two pages of the draft thread may be the reason we pass on Joe. It just might not be worth the dialogue to the FO, even if they interview him and he seems to be a genuinely remorseful, empathetic kid.

But make no mistake, after McCaffrey, this kid would easily be the best fit on the Broncos. Elite kick returner, elite pass catcher, game breaking speed when running the ball, size to run between tackles (Although he isn't great at that, yet). He has the whole package.

Quote:

I actually see it the other way - confrontation with a stranger is where you're more likely to do something really stupid as a one-off.

No way you should be hitting your sister, mother, GF, partner, wife. There's no excuse. This is someone you love. It also means you are way more likely to repeat - which is why domestic violence raises huge flags. It's usually not the first or last time because the same parties are there and same reasons to not go there were there before - hard to know why it wouldn't happen again. That's why I'm more willing to see what the FO thinks after interviewing Mixon and doing their background checks and opinions. In most cases of domestic violence, it's often found out to be a pattern of behavior.

Let's face it, there's no excuse for this - but I think the real Q is whether it will happen again, and if he's learned.


Totally agree with the above. Also, this incident happening in daylight doesn't for a second mean Mixon was sober. I was 18 once, and spent many-a-midday trying to get hobos to buy me and the boys malt liquor (Also, what is it about being young that makes you want to drink 40's? Dear god I would have a convulsion if I took a sip of that crap today and I haven't even hit 30)

Back to the point, lets just say I am glad to not be making the decision to draft or avoid Mixon. It wouldn't be a fun proposition.


Playing devils advocate a little here:

Elway and Co saw the damage Tyreek Hill did, now I'm not sure Mixon is as good as Hill, but once he got going it didn't seem like there was much mention of his issues.

Winning cures all
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Playing devils advocate a little here:

Elway and Co saw the damage Tyreek Hill did, now I'm not sure Mixon is as good as Hill, but once he got going it didn't seem like there was much mention of his issues.

Winning cures all


I totally agree. And what Hill did was far more vile.

But Mixon is way better than Hill. Tyreke is an elite gadget player who can become a #2 deep threat/bubble threat. Mixon can legitimately be a 3 down back, return kicks at an elite level, and even pass catch. I just think Mixon can stay on the field for more snaps than Tyreke.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mixon would be a great fit, however I don't see us taking him. But to not even bring him in and sit him down and get your own opinion of the man would be a mistake. Elway's doing his due diligence.
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broncofan48


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:


Playing devils advocate a little here:

Elway and Co saw the damage Tyreek Hill did, now I'm not sure Mixon is as good as Hill, but once he got going it didn't seem like there was much mention of his issues.

Winning cures all


I totally agree. And what Hill did was far more vile.

But Mixon is way better than Hill. Tyreke is an elite gadget player who can become a #2 deep threat/bubble threat. Mixon can legitimately be a 3 down back, return kicks at an elite level, and even pass catch. I just think Mixon can stay on the field for more snaps than Tyreke.


I don't watch much college football so definitely deferring to you on that. So if hes better than Hill, and I agree what Hill did was way worse, then if Mixon has success with whatever team he is drafted by for better or worse the majority of fans will get selective memory about the incident.

Not excusing his behavior in the slightest, but hes going to get drafted and if he's good most fans really don't care about the past, as long as he doesnt get suspended again.

I don't know how many times I overheard fans of pretty much every team in bars or wherever watching football remark "Hill was drafted in the 5th?!? (Insert Favorite Team Here) should've drafted him. I'm sure he learned" or some variation of that. To the majority of fans I would say winning forgives all sins in their eyes.
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way I would take Mixon is if you still Ware on the team to mentor him. I don't see any profound leaders on the team that can have that kind of influence over a kid like Mixon. Not yet, anyway, Siemien can grow into that role, but he is too young now.
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BroncoBruin


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's impossible for Elway to hide his priorities in the first two rounds: a future left tackle and a versatile playmaker at running back. The dilemma here: you can probably get Mixon in the second round after picking one of the top three tackles. That is the best way to maximize value without a doubt IMO, but Mixon is a tough sell with his problems. The alternative would then be taking Christian McCaffrey on Day 1 and getting a tackle in the second round (Garcia, Dawkins, Moton, Davenport) who are unlikely to be Day 1 starters. McCaffrey's name carries a lot of weight in Denver which will make this all the more tempting. But strictly on the field, the first option is far better. Does Mixon's baggage justify passing on better OL talent when it's really needed? I suppose Kamara could be in play on Day 2 as well if Elway decides Mixon isn't worth the trouble but takes a tackle in Round 1.

I hate to pidgeon-hole our top picks and I'm sure I'll be wrong on one but the logical targets in rounds 1-3 seem obvious to me: a LT, a RB (and general weapon), a TE and a CB.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just going to say it here...I think the Broncos get Engram in the 1st. Not sure who would be available at LT in round 2...but, I would suggest it would be someone you all don't like considering that it would be...the 2nd round. I would pick up McCaffrey in the 2nd if I were Elway though...again, not the pick you guys want, but Engram and McCaffrey on offense....could be interesting.
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
I am just going to say it here...I think the Broncos get Engram in the 1st. Not sure who would be available at LT in round 2...but, I would suggest it would be someone you all don't like considering that it would be...the 2nd round. I would pick up McCaffrey in the 2nd if I were Elway though...again, not the pick you guys want, but Engram and McCaffrey on offense....could be interesting.


I could see Engram going 20. Elway might see an even bigger more athletic Shannon Sharpe.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one could argue that Joe Mixon is the best RB in this draft and there are supposed to be 3 that go in the first round.

Mixon is big 6'1" 230 and does it all. He is probably the 2nd best receiver out of the backfield behind McCaffrey and in most drafts would be the best. He's big with wiggle and speed at 6'1" 230 with 4.45 speed. The only real knock I see is he runs a bit high.

He's an elite talent and 3 down back that compares similarly to Ezekiel Elliot and David Johnson. He will be a steal when he's drafted as he likely goes 2nd or 3rd round.

With all of that, I don't want him in Denver, even though all of his past will be forgotten when he is successful.
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Counselor


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scotty Payne is kind of a joke over at MHR arguing for Teez Tabor and posters are pointing out his 40 and he is defending Tabor Cus he is his favorite corner to the death. Kind of pathetic his arguments against the shown lack of
Speed.
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