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2017 College Prospects Thread
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
It's crazy to me that this is considered a "down year" for OT prospects. Says who? The draft pundits and scouts who have whiffed so hard on OT prospects the last few years. I'm sorry but I don't trust the pundits OL evaluations anymore. No TV "scouts," no draft blog writers, no beat writers - the bust rate on first round OT's has been extremely high the last 5 years, and these same pundits saying it's a down year this year said that there were can't miss OL who have indeed, missed.


I'm skeptical of the analysts OLine evaluations, so them calling it a "weak class" means zilch to me - they have no idea what they're looking at based on the last several years of first round tackle picks. Our gaping hole on the OL combined with the pundits poor OL analysis the past several years will lead me not to judge if Denver takes an OL in the first round. I'm not going to pretend to have any idea, so I'll wait til that player steps foot on the field and then I'll begin to judge.

With all that said, if we draft an OL over Reuben Foster I'm gonna be HEATED.


I hear what your saying El, but I don't know that I agree. Yes, most pundits/scouts are wrong. Everyone is with the draft because it's a crapshoot. That being said, not hard to see why people are skeptical of this class. Bolles is 25 with 1 year of experience. Ramczyk is coming off a hip injury with 1 year of experience. Cam Robinson seems like a good bet, but doesn't profile as an OT. The rest of the class profiles as a bunch of guards or developmental OTs. That's the issue people have with the class- there appear to be very few players who can contribute early on, and while there are quite a few developmental guys, they all have bigger question marks than normal.


I share your concerns, but my two favorite are Ramczyk and Lamp. If Lamp can give you a year on the right and then be an elite guard then that's a great get.

Ramczyk had the hip thing done, ok, Paradis had two done and there doesn't seem to be any concern over his readiness for camp or his ability being impaired post surgery. Why set a double standard for Ramczyk. Yes, I get that he hasn't proven ability vs NFL talent yet - but if the tape shows he has the ability - why let the hip thing devalue him when you don't think a player on the roster will be any worse for having both hips done? I just don't knock draft eligible guys for having routine procedures (unless it's a life changing thing where you truly don't know). That's not the case for Ramczyk, he's not going to be physically impaired after his surgery, and suck lol. I trust the doctors and I trust the rehab process to get the player back to health. Evaluators tend to overblow these things, and GM's are honestly scared of their own shadows when it comes to player acquisition whether that be via draft or trade.


Cam I share the concerns he seems like a guard, and these huge Bama OL's that go in the first haven't been that great. Whether it be Fluker, Chance Warmack, the list goes on. But if he gives a year at T and then becomes a very good guard, that's a win.

Bolles, same concern as you. The over-aged thing is a huge red flag that's proven true far too many times. But I love his willingness to beat people down and play hard, it's something we lack.

If Foster and the other elite talents are off the board, I'm willing to give an OL a chance though. If those other guys are off the board there's not much of an argument to be made that one of the T's isn't a legitimate candidate as the BPA.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schefter reporting that Denver is exploring a trade up. Renck and Lombardi both speculating it's for McCaffrey.

I suspect if CMac makes it to 13, Denver jumps up to take him. Then I could see us going to 16 for an OT if there's concern over who is available.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Schefter reporting that Denver is exploring a trade up. Renck and Lombardi both speculating it's for McCaffrey.

I suspect if CMac makes it to 13, Denver jumps up to take him. Then I could see us going to 16 for an OT if there's concern over who is available.


I've had a feeling for weeks that MCaffrey is Denvers #1 target. All the talk coming from Dove Valley about adding speed and playmakers to the offense points in that direction as well.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Schefter reporting that Denver is exploring a trade up. Renck and Lombardi both speculating it's for McCaffrey.

I suspect if CMac makes it to 13, Denver jumps up to take him. Then I could see us going to 16 for an OT if there's concern over who is available.

Interestingly, and this contradicts some rumors from this morning, but I don't see Trubisky getting taken in the top 20, meaning we could make a deal with Cleveland, 12 for 20 and other stuff, to get in front of Philly and Indy for McCaffrey if he makes it to 12.
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AAA is right, as he usually is.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Schefter reporting that Denver is exploring a trade up. Renck and Lombardi both speculating it's for McCaffrey.

I suspect if CMac makes it to 13, Denver jumps up to take him. Then I could see us going to 16 for an OT if there's concern over who is available.

Interestingly, and this contradicts some rumors from this morning, but I don't see Trubisky getting taken in the top 20, meaning we could make a deal with Cleveland, 12 for 20 and other stuff, to get in front of Philly and Indy for McCaffrey if he makes it to 12.


I think McCaffrey is quite easily a Top 10 pick. I think Trubisky is going to go early as well. We'll see. I don't think Denver should or would mortgage the draft for CMac, but we'll see.
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ElJefe7


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think CMac is a realistic possibility. I think it is more that Denver wants to be prepared in case there is a run on tackles.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElJefe7 wrote:
I dont think CMac is a realistic possibility. I think it is more that Denver wants to be prepared in case there is a run on tackles.


A run on T's would mean though that a guy like Foster or Reddick would have to be there at 1.20, unless we literally got sniped at 1.18/1.19.

If we are happy with any of Ramczyk/Bolles/Robinson & Lamp, just hard to see how none of those 4 would be there at 1.20. It's been discussed to death, but most if not all of us see Lamp as the best overall OL in the group, so that's never a bad call.
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This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncosFan2010


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people realize how much it will take to deal up for McCaffrey?

It would be an awful decision. We are NOT a playmaker away from competing. We need a talent infusion across the board. And to move from 20 to 12 we would have to sacrifice our 2nd and a 3rd, and that's on the lower scale of value.

I will be quite disappointed if Elway makes the move for Christian, and I LOVE him as a prospect. And if this was the 2015 draft with an elite team, veteran QB and few holes across the board, I would have little issue dealing up for C-Mac. But this is 2017 and we need to replace our poached SB talent and make up for the busted OL picks.

We don't have the luxury of dealing up for a playmaker at any position, because only elite teams need that type of talent to push them over the edge, and we are not an elite team.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Do people realize how much it will take to deal up for McCaffrey?

It would be an awful decision. We are NOT a playmaker away from competing. We need a talent infusion across the board. And to move from 20 to 12 we would have to sacrifice our 2nd and a 3rd, and that's on the lower scale of value.

I will be quite disappointed if Elway makes the move for Christian, and I LOVE him as a prospect. And if this was the 2015 draft with an elite team, veteran QB and few holes across the board, I would have little issue dealing up for C-Mac. But this is 2017 and we need to replace our poached SB talent and make up for the busted OL picks.

We don't have the luxury of dealing up for a playmaker at any position, because only elite teams need that type of talent to push them over the edge, and we are not an elite team.


To be fair, on Draft Day we get a lot more posters who come back. Nothing wrong with that, the more the merrier.

But yeah, you're dead on with the cost - teams don't have to go strictly off this, but this chart is pretty classic for how teams value picks in trades:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

The only way you get to 12 from 20 is by giving up 1.20, 2.51 and 3.82. The only way you get up into the top 10 is likely by having to give up your 2018 1st and 1.20...and probably even an extra pick (3.101 or 4.125). It's just so damn expensive. Not worth it if you have to get multiple needs met. And sadly, this year, we definitely do.

If Elway hits this draft out of the park with his 5 top 125 picks, we're in great shape for 2018+. But we can't go all-in with just 1 guy. That's not where we are at talent-wise.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Do people realize how much it will take to deal up for McCaffrey?

It would be an awful decision. We are NOT a playmaker away from competing. We need a talent infusion across the board. And to move from 20 to 12 we would have to sacrifice our 2nd and a 3rd, and that's on the lower scale of value.

I will be quite disappointed if Elway makes the move for Christian, and I LOVE him as a prospect. And if this was the 2015 draft with an elite team, veteran QB and few holes across the board, I would have little issue dealing up for C-Mac. But this is 2017 and we need to replace our poached SB talent and make up for the busted OL picks.

We don't have the luxury of dealing up for a playmaker at any position, because only elite teams need that type of talent to push them over the edge, and we are not an elite team.


I disagree with you. I think the Broncos are just a few pieces away from being elite again. They had the #4 best defense in the league last year and missed the playoffs.

They need some offense in a BIG way. I wouldn't mind the Broncos going all offense this draft. I would go Corey Davis, Evan Engram, OJ Howard, John Ross, CMAC, I would go all offensive line...I would go Mike Williams...yeah...that is what I would do.
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BroncosFan2010


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I disagree with you. I think the Broncos are just a few pieces away from being elite again. They had the #4 best defense in the league last year and missed the playoffs.

They need some offense in a BIG way. I wouldn't mind the Broncos going all offense this draft. I would go Corey Davis, Evan Engram, OJ Howard, John Ross, CMAC, I would go all offensive line...I would go Mike Williams...yeah...that is what I would do.


Agree to disagree about the top part, but the bottom part I can get on with. We need offensive talent infusion at numerous spots. Key word numerous. And dealing up will limit our ability to address those numerous spots.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Do people realize how much it will take to deal up for McCaffrey?

It would be an awful decision. We are NOT a playmaker away from competing. We need a talent infusion across the board. And to move from 20 to 12 we would have to sacrifice our 2nd and a 3rd, and that's on the lower scale of value.

I will be quite disappointed if Elway makes the move for Christian, and I LOVE him as a prospect. And if this was the 2015 draft with an elite team, veteran QB and few holes across the board, I would have little issue dealing up for C-Mac. But this is 2017 and we need to replace our poached SB talent and make up for the busted OL picks.

We don't have the luxury of dealing up for a playmaker at any position, because only elite teams need that type of talent to push them over the edge, and we are not an elite team.


I disagree with you. I think the Broncos are just a few pieces away from being elite again. They had the #4 best defense in the league last year and missed the playoffs.

They need some offense in a BIG way. I wouldn't mind the Broncos going all offense this draft. I would go Corey Davis, Evan Engram, OJ Howard, John Ross, CMAC, I would go all offensive line...I would go Mike Williams...yeah...that is what I would do.


Problem is, you'd have to deal all Day 1 & Day 2 picks to move up into the top 10, if that's where C-Mac headed. If he falls further, it's less, but still a huge price to move up in Rd 1.

Instead, you could stand pat at 1.20, and get OL, and in Rd 2, move up to get Evan Engram. Then in Round 5+, get a KR/PR specialist with slot skills. Huge difference maker on OL, huge playmaker on O, and an upgrade on our KR/PR. Without having to deal away all those extra assets we need for other areas.

See the difference? There's more than 1 way to address O. And keep in mind we need to address run D, and pass D vs. RB/TE (likely ILB upgrade is easiest way to upgrade both aspects, which makes Reuben Foster such an awesome choice if he's there).

You didn't say we were one guy away - you said we were a few guys away. Most actually would agree. But you still need to get those few key spots squared away. Even if it's only a few (3-4 key spots), you can't then trade away most or all of your extra Day 2 assets for 1 guy. Which moving up from 1.20 for a top 12 spot, is what's needed.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason Cole, who is a hack, mentioned that we had discussions about moving up to FIVE with Tennessee which would be mind numbingly stupid.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Jason Cole, who is a hack, mentioned that we had discussions about moving up to FIVE with Tennessee which would be mind numbingly stupid.


Ben Albright clarified it was 18. Which restores some credibility lol.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Jason Cole, who is a hack, mentioned that we had discussions about moving up to FIVE with Tennessee which would be mind numbingly stupid.


Ben Albright clarified it was 18. Which restores some credibility lol.


Well Allbright mentioned that Tennessee also has 18, but didn't specifically confirm either. They must have some serious intel that TB is taking a tackle though. Because frankly, I can't see it.
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