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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobdevine wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
Is Ejuan Harris the next Elvis Dumervil?


Did you mean Ejuan Price?
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/133408/ejuan-price

Currently Price looks like a late-round pick. He might go undrafted due to his age and concerns about his past injuries.


Yea Price, not sure why I wrote Harris lol.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in terms of needs, it appears that the OL fooled us for the first 1-3 weeks. I think that we simply need to keep adding talent. The only guy that has a place long term is Matt Paradis, and he is also the only Elway OL 'hit' since Orlando Franklin in 2011.

We have seen Elway show interest in elite OL if they are BPA or near it. He wanted to deal up for David DeCastro a few years back, and if I remember correctly, he was interested in Zach Martin but the cards didn't fall right.

In the likely event that neither Garcia or Schofield play well enough to truly cement the interior, I really hope he manages to snag Ben Feeney in R1. He is a nasty, NFL ready OG who plays with a tremendous motor and attacks his assignment until the whistle blows. But, he isn't just a run blocker, he is an elite pass protector. Some stats (Only effective through last season): Has allowed one sack through 36 career starts at RG. Zero sacks allowed in 2015. 91 knockdowns in 2015.

Kid is a plug-and-play 10 year starting talent IMO. Downside is that he is having concussion issues this season, and if they full clear up, he isn't going to be available when we pick. But if they don't, he may fall, but is the risk worth it? I would say so.

Most recent mock:

1. Dan Feeney OG - Indiana
2. Cam Sutton CB - Tennessee
3. JJ Dielman OT/OG - Utah
3. Jeremy Sprinkle TE - Arkansas
3. Elijah Qualls NT - Washington
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6952
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Well, in terms of needs, it appears that the OL fooled us for the first 1-3 weeks. I think that we simply need to keep adding talent. The only guy that has a place long term is Matt Paradis, and he is also the only Elway OL 'hit' since Orlando Franklin in 2011.

We have seen Elway show interest in elite OL if they are BPA or near it. He wanted to deal up for David DeCastro a few years back, and if I remember correctly, he was interested in Zach Martin but the cards didn't fall right.

In the likely event that neither Garcia or Schofield play well enough to truly cement the interior, I really hope he manages to snag Ben Feeney in R1. He is a nasty, NFL ready OG who plays with a tremendous motor and attacks his assignment until the whistle blows. But, he isn't just a run blocker, he is an elite pass protector. Some stats (Only effective through last season): Has allowed one sack through 36 career starts at RG. Zero sacks allowed in 2015. 91 knockdowns in 2015.

Kid is a plug-and-play 10 year starting talent IMO. Downside is that he is having concussion issues this season, and if they full clear up, he isn't going to be available when we pick. But if they don't, he may fall, but is the risk worth it? I would say so.

Most recent mock:

1. Dan Feeney OG - Indiana
2. Cam Sutton CB - Tennessee
3. JJ Dielman OT/OG - Utah
3. Jeremy Sprinkle TE - Arkansas
3. Elijah Qualls NT - Washington


It's really a shame. We've invested some solid picks on the OL. Both Ty and Schofield were top 100 guys. That's easily top 10 O linemen. You should get a solid contributor there.

Whiffing on 1st 3 round picks doesn't bode well for the future.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top needs have to be OL, DL, LB, TE.

I think it's clear that our OL is a mess and needs an infusion of talent. The same can reasonably be said about the DL, particularly inside where we could use some pass rush ability.

ILB is a need, but can probably look to find a speedier smaller LB in a mid round.

TE is a need. I know people don't seem to think so, but finding and developing a dynamic all-around TE would do wonders for this offense, and in the NFL gives you a distinct advantage.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Well, in terms of needs, it appears that the OL fooled us for the first 1-3 weeks. I think that we simply need to keep adding talent. The only guy that has a place long term is Matt Paradis, and he is also the only Elway OL 'hit' since Orlando Franklin in 2011.

We have seen Elway show interest in elite OL if they are BPA or near it. He wanted to deal up for David DeCastro a few years back, and if I remember correctly, he was interested in Zach Martin but the cards didn't fall right.

In the likely event that neither Garcia or Schofield play well enough to truly cement the interior, I really hope he manages to snag Ben Feeney in R1. He is a nasty, NFL ready OG who plays with a tremendous motor and attacks his assignment until the whistle blows. But, he isn't just a run blocker, he is an elite pass protector. Some stats (Only effective through last season): Has allowed one sack through 36 career starts at RG. Zero sacks allowed in 2015. 91 knockdowns in 2015.

Kid is a plug-and-play 10 year starting talent IMO. Downside is that he is having concussion issues this season, and if they full clear up, he isn't going to be available when we pick. But if they don't, he may fall, but is the risk worth it? I would say so.

Most recent mock:

1. Dan Feeney OG - Indiana
2. Cam Sutton CB - Tennessee
3. JJ Dielman OT/OG - Utah
3. Jeremy Sprinkle TE - Arkansas
3. Elijah Qualls NT - Washington


It's really a shame. We've invested some solid picks on the OL. Both Ty and Schofield were top 100 guys. That's easily top 10 O linemen. You should get a solid contributor there.

Whiffing on 1st 3 round picks doesn't bode well for the future.


To be fair, there's nothing that suggests Schofield still can't be a decent G.

I think what we've found with T's drafted the last 5 years - the so-called new breed of athletic T like Joeckel, Fisher, and to a lesser extent Sambrailo - are much more prone to busting than the brawlers. The Flukers, Conklins, Lewans of the world. Yes, some of them move to RT or G, but they are successful. Being undersized as a D-lineman can be overcome by motor/quickness/intangibles - but NOT as an O-lineman, given the job to either backpedal and pass protect, or create holes in a D-line that's trying to hold their ground.

Simply put, tweener or "fast-twitch" OL athletes that have iffy power bases - we should pass on for top 100 picks. Projects that can have a flyer pick spent, I still think it's more likely to fail, but then you don't waste a high value investment.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 3900
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

To be fair, there's nothing that suggests Schofield still can't be a decent G.


I agree, but he is nowhere near a guy we should pencil in as a future starter. Same with Garcia. Even if both played well in the 2nd half against Houston. They have not shown the consistency to warrant passing on a borderline elite OG talent in R1 or even a quality talent in R2.

Agreed on the OT points to an extent but its more that you want guys with a mix of movement skills and power, but above all, you want nasty. Both Conklin and Lewan were underrated athletes that played tough and mean.

Fluker shouldn't be in the same conversation. His clown feet just don't move fast enough to be an OT in this league. He already has been moved inside by SD.

The OT talent in this draft is pretty bad though. Few, if any, plug-and-play guys at OT. I don't want to pay 11.2M for a LT that has 4 holding calls in two games, but he may be the best bet moving forward. If we could renegotiate him down to like 8M, that would be idea.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6952
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Well, in terms of needs, it appears that the OL fooled us for the first 1-3 weeks. I think that we simply need to keep adding talent. The only guy that has a place long term is Matt Paradis, and he is also the only Elway OL 'hit' since Orlando Franklin in 2011.

We have seen Elway show interest in elite OL if they are BPA or near it. He wanted to deal up for David DeCastro a few years back, and if I remember correctly, he was interested in Zach Martin but the cards didn't fall right.

In the likely event that neither Garcia or Schofield play well enough to truly cement the interior, I really hope he manages to snag Ben Feeney in R1. He is a nasty, NFL ready OG who plays with a tremendous motor and attacks his assignment until the whistle blows. But, he isn't just a run blocker, he is an elite pass protector. Some stats (Only effective through last season): Has allowed one sack through 36 career starts at RG. Zero sacks allowed in 2015. 91 knockdowns in 2015.

Kid is a plug-and-play 10 year starting talent IMO. Downside is that he is having concussion issues this season, and if they full clear up, he isn't going to be available when we pick. But if they don't, he may fall, but is the risk worth it? I would say so.

Most recent mock:

1. Dan Feeney OG - Indiana
2. Cam Sutton CB - Tennessee
3. JJ Dielman OT/OG - Utah
3. Jeremy Sprinkle TE - Arkansas
3. Elijah Qualls NT - Washington


It's really a shame. We've invested some solid picks on the OL. Both Ty and Schofield were top 100 guys. That's easily top 10 O linemen. You should get a solid contributor there.

Whiffing on 1st 3 round picks doesn't bode well for the future.


To be fair, there's nothing that suggests Schofield still can't be a decent G.
I think what we've found with T's drafted the last 5 years - the so-called new breed of athletic T like Joeckel, Fisher, and to a lesser extent Sambrailo - are much more prone to busting than the brawlers. The Flukers, Conklins, Lewans of the world. Yes, some of them move to RT or G, but they are successful. Being undersized as a D-lineman can be overcome by motor/quickness/intangibles - but NOT as an O-lineman, given the job to either backpedal and pass protect, or create holes in a D-line that's trying to hold their ground.

Simply put, tweener or "fast-twitch" OL athletes that have iffy power bases - we should pass on for top 100 picks. Projects that can have a flyer pick spent, I still think it's more likely to fail, but then you don't waste a high value investment.


Actually I wasn't really commenting on the performance of Ty or Schofield. Just stating fact regarding their draft position. They both might live up to their draft status.

Our second and third picks we've not done well with. The only starter we've gotten out of that bunch since 2012 is Schofield. Three are gone and two, Webster and Latimer are great ST guys and depth. Who knows how Ty and Heuerman will work out but the early prognosis is poor.

Anyway, getting only one starter out of that group of 8 is a bad trend.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3609
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Well, in terms of needs, it appears that the OL fooled us for the first 1-3 weeks. I think that we simply need to keep adding talent. The only guy that has a place long term is Matt Paradis, and he is also the only Elway OL 'hit' since Orlando Franklin in 2011.

We have seen Elway show interest in elite OL if they are BPA or near it. He wanted to deal up for David DeCastro a few years back, and if I remember correctly, he was interested in Zach Martin but the cards didn't fall right.

In the likely event that neither Garcia or Schofield play well enough to truly cement the interior, I really hope he manages to snag Ben Feeney in R1. He is a nasty, NFL ready OG who plays with a tremendous motor and attacks his assignment until the whistle blows. But, he isn't just a run blocker, he is an elite pass protector. Some stats (Only effective through last season): Has allowed one sack through 36 career starts at RG. Zero sacks allowed in 2015. 91 knockdowns in 2015.

Kid is a plug-and-play 10 year starting talent IMO. Downside is that he is having concussion issues this season, and if they full clear up, he isn't going to be available when we pick. But if they don't, he may fall, but is the risk worth it? I would say so.

Most recent mock:

1. Dan Feeney OG - Indiana
2. Cam Sutton CB - Tennessee
3. JJ Dielman OT/OG - Utah
3. Jeremy Sprinkle TE - Arkansas
3. Elijah Qualls NT - Washington


It's really a shame. We've invested some solid picks on the OL. Both Ty and Schofield were top 100 guys. That's easily top 10 O linemen. You should get a solid contributor there.

Whiffing on 1st 3 round picks doesn't bode well for the future.


To be fair, there's nothing that suggests Schofield still can't be a decent G.
I think what we've found with T's drafted the last 5 years - the so-called new breed of athletic T like Joeckel, Fisher, and to a lesser extent Sambrailo - are much more prone to busting than the brawlers. The Flukers, Conklins, Lewans of the world. Yes, some of them move to RT or G, but they are successful. Being undersized as a D-lineman can be overcome by motor/quickness/intangibles - but NOT as an O-lineman, given the job to either backpedal and pass protect, or create holes in a D-line that's trying to hold their ground.

Simply put, tweener or "fast-twitch" OL athletes that have iffy power bases - we should pass on for top 100 picks. Projects that can have a flyer pick spent, I still think it's more likely to fail, but then you don't waste a high value investment.


Actually I wasn't really commenting on the performance of Ty or Schofield. Just stating fact regarding their draft position. They both might live up to their draft status.

Our second and third picks we've not done well with. The only starter we've gotten out of that bunch since 2012 is Schofield.
Three are gone and two, Webster and Latimer are great ST guys and depth. Who knows how Ty and Heuerman will work out but the early prognosis is poor.

Anyway, getting only one starter out of that group of 8 is a bad trend.


No argument there. I hope we buck the trend with Gostis and Simmons - it seems Elway goes off the CW and picks "his guys" in Rd 2-3 - and that record is one of his few black marks. He really does great as the later rounds hit, though.

I do think the scouting love for 'tweener T's with "insane athletics" is passing - the lack of power and solid base foundation for drive blocking and stopping bull rushes is being recognized as something you can't overcome with athleticism. Glad to see it.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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BroncoBruin


Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 13063
Location: La Mesa, CA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Well, in terms of needs, it appears that the OL fooled us for the first 1-3 weeks. I think that we simply need to keep adding talent. The only guy that has a place long term is Matt Paradis, and he is also the only Elway OL 'hit' since Orlando Franklin in 2011.

We have seen Elway show interest in elite OL if they are BPA or near it. He wanted to deal up for David DeCastro a few years back, and if I remember correctly, he was interested in Zach Martin but the cards didn't fall right.

In the likely event that neither Garcia or Schofield play well enough to truly cement the interior, I really hope he manages to snag Ben Feeney in R1. He is a nasty, NFL ready OG who plays with a tremendous motor and attacks his assignment until the whistle blows. But, he isn't just a run blocker, he is an elite pass protector. Some stats (Only effective through last season): Has allowed one sack through 36 career starts at RG. Zero sacks allowed in 2015. 91 knockdowns in 2015.

Kid is a plug-and-play 10 year starting talent IMO. Downside is that he is having concussion issues this season, and if they full clear up, he isn't going to be available when we pick. But if they don't, he may fall, but is the risk worth it? I would say so.

Most recent mock:

1. Dan Feeney OG - Indiana
2. Cam Sutton CB - Tennessee
3. JJ Dielman OT/OG - Utah
3. Jeremy Sprinkle TE - Arkansas
3. Elijah Qualls NT - Washington


It's really a shame. We've invested some solid picks on the OL. Both Ty and Schofield were top 100 guys. That's easily top 10 O linemen. You should get a solid contributor there.

Whiffing on 1st 3 round picks doesn't bode well for the future.


To be fair, there's nothing that suggests Schofield still can't be a decent G.
I think what we've found with T's drafted the last 5 years - the so-called new breed of athletic T like Joeckel, Fisher, and to a lesser extent Sambrailo - are much more prone to busting than the brawlers. The Flukers, Conklins, Lewans of the world. Yes, some of them move to RT or G, but they are successful. Being undersized as a D-lineman can be overcome by motor/quickness/intangibles - but NOT as an O-lineman, given the job to either backpedal and pass protect, or create holes in a D-line that's trying to hold their ground.

Simply put, tweener or "fast-twitch" OL athletes that have iffy power bases - we should pass on for top 100 picks. Projects that can have a flyer pick spent, I still think it's more likely to fail, but then you don't waste a high value investment.


Actually I wasn't really commenting on the performance of Ty or Schofield. Just stating fact regarding their draft position. They both might live up to their draft status.

Our second and third picks we've not done well with. The only starter we've gotten out of that bunch since 2012 is Schofield.
Three are gone and two, Webster and Latimer are great ST guys and depth. Who knows how Ty and Heuerman will work out but the early prognosis is poor.

Anyway, getting only one starter out of that group of 8 is a bad trend.


No argument there. I hope we buck the trend with Gostis and Simmons - it seems Elway goes off the CW and picks "his guys" in Rd 2-3 - and that record is one of his few black marks. He really does great as the later rounds hit, though.

I do think the scouting love for 'tweener T's with "insane athletics" is passing - the lack of power and solid base foundation for drive blocking and stopping bull rushes is being recognized as something you can't overcome with athleticism. Glad to see it.
Gotsis is a long term project, I wouldnt expect much until year 3. He put a nice hit on Brock late in the game. It's going to be interesting to see Simmons' development as his Week 2 injury has put him behind Parks and to his credit Parks has taken off with his opportunity to log major snaps and played well. I've really liked what I've seen from Parks already.
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bobdevine


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To toss out another name -- Anthony Walker a LB from Northwestern is worth a look for the 2nd or 3rd round.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know some of you keep up with college pretty well. I know BF2010 has mentioned a few OG's that should make the transition to the NFL pretty well.

My question is, what O linemen do you think would be available at our #1 draft slot that could have an immediate impact.

I wish I had more confidence in our OL scouting ability. We've been drafting O Linemen since Elway got here and have a pretty poor track record on getting ball players.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
I know some of you keep up with college pretty well. I know BF2010 has mentioned a few OG's that should make the transition to the NFL pretty well.

My question is, what O linemen do you think would be available at our #1 draft slot that could have an immediate impact.

I wish I had more confidence in our OL scouting ability. We've been drafting O Linemen since Elway got here and have a pretty poor track record on getting ball players.


We've done poorly but keep in mind some of these picks were taken with Fox's system in place, we weren't running a zone scheme. Schofield doesn't have the movement for a zone system, maybe inside at guard. The real head scratcher was Max Garcia who is built like Louis Vasquez and plays the same physical game but lacks movement - the reasons Louis Vasquez was let go. That one was a real red flag, as he was drafted when Kubiak got here.

Sambrailo fit from an athletic standpoint, he was just never anything special as a football player, it was all projection, with the assumption that he could bulk up and get to an NFL size/strength level.

I warned in the pre-season that this line would fail big time, that it's just not a talented group. I hope this offseason we take it seriously and get it right. Even in free agency we don't do well. Okung is ok, but the option is one that
is almost to pick up, so it looks like a one year deal. Stephenson stinks, yes our line is better with him in the game, but that's more so because the other options are that much worse. We will need to get better on the outside if we want to get better long term.

Right now we have a center locked in, that's it. I think Garcia is passable, I have high hopes for Connor McGovern too. But Stephenson should be a 3rd tackle, not a starter, and I doubt Okung is here passed this year. Lots of work to do here.

As far as scouting goes, and why so many of these top talents are flaking in the league, I think it's pretty simple, they're not asked to hold blocks in the college game anymore. There are so many quick hit passing offenses now that the tackles aren't asked to hold blocks for more than a second, and they get to the league and they're not ready to hold up against a sustained rush. Draft good looking prospects from pro style offenses and we should do a little bit better with the OT position.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In next year's draft, I think the Broncos need a marquee LT, ala, Ryan Clady who can start from day 1 and excel.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
In next year's draft, I think the Broncos need a marquee LT, ala, Ryan Clady who can start from day 1 and excel.


I'd love to see it but I'm not sure there is one this year. We need to hear from our college experts on that.

Opinions anyone?
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